32 people killed every single day

Originally posted by calihan123
simply look it up.

look up gun laws in canada and the UK and how many murders per year there are in either one of those places.

Why should we do your work for you? You are the one who is defending a gun ban.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by schism85]

actually guns we cant, vehicles we can ... the problem is that the government doesnt care, if they do, they will demand a collision system in all cars ...

Originally posted by calihan123
no, its just easy. go to goole. look it up.

im not gonna do all the work for you i already gave you a bunch of facts.

Since you are new here, I will cut you some slack. But that is not how it is done HERE. Whomever makes the "claim" must back it up with their research and show us.

Yep, I can easily google. But im not making these SPECIFIC claims, you are.

Thanks!

[edit on 11/5/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by calihan123
i do think this is a great country, but because so many people live here and there are so many different things that go on here, it leaves a lot of doors open for violence. we allow people to have guns pretty freely. In the UK after the killing of 16 children at a kindergarten school, they really cracked down on gun control laws. And the uk has a very low amount of murders per year. Same with canada.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

i understand your concern, but let me bring up something that MAYBE you have not considered, i cannot say for sure of course, but i am admitingly assuming. america cannot be considered in the same regard to the UK because here in the U.S. we are not neralky as crowded together. YES, we have these great big cities where the ability to just go buy a gun easily would only make sense if the person was planning on either getting shot at or shooting someone else, but the majority of america is not crowded together like the UK is, it's not uncommon for someone to have dozens if not hundreds of acres to shoot on, hunt on, etc. i live in a very open area, on 50 plus acres, and all of my neighbors have shotguns, many have handguns, and a few have high powered rifles. my community has a very low homicide rate, and the murders that DO happen are often mrth induced rages that catch anyone in it's path and use any weapon available, be it a gun or a table leg, or a chunk of frozen broccoli. my answer to your question about why we worry about nukes instead of guns would be this: because i am not fearful of my neighbors or their guns. I AM fearful of a country having access to nukes when 95% of that country wants all americans dead and sees us as the most evil place in the world. See, MOST of americans are not in those giant cities, they are in suburbs and rural areas like mine, and nuclear weapons are a much bigger threat to me and my family than guns belonging to my neighbors are. what i would suggest is making it harder to own or buy a handgun if u live in an appartment in the middle of new york, because the only hunting you can do there would be people hunting. the gun laws should be relative to the enviroment you live in, in my opinion. i totally agree that americans are out of control with their guns, but in the same token, one of my gretest joys in life is to buy a hundred bucks worth of ammo, and just shoot the crap out of many different things for an hour or so, when things go boom, it makes me happy, it's theraputic, and it's fun. I love shooting my guns. i have an Ak-47 that i shoot often, and i never go hunting. why, you ask, do i need a semi-automatic rifle with so much power behind it if i don't even hunt? well, because it's fun, and because i feel very secure knowing that i have such a deadly weapon if i should ever need to defend my family or, god help us, my country from invaders. I will never give up my right to these weapons, but it is a privelaged right, anyone with prior violent crimes or mental problems should under no circumstance be allowed to have even a shotgun (which, herein my town, you can buy in 10 minutes at walmart while your wife is picking up the ingredients for dinner) i think the laws should be stricter as to who can buy the guns, but under no way should the guns themselves be banned. if we ever start down that road of turning our guns in and what not, we will never recover from it. i really support Obama, but the ONLY major issue i do not agree with the dems on is the banning of so many different weapons. Ban the people with violent pasts or issues, ban them from having tose rights, but don't penalize a perfectly law abiding good natured citizen like myself because of some other bad guy. in short, most of us (americans) do not live in a big city, and therefore the nuclear threat is much more of a worry to us. i hope you don't take this reply the wrong way however, i do understand your concern, and i agree it is an issue that needs more attention. thank you.

reply to post by calihan123


While England has not yet reached the American level of murders, it has already surpassed the United States in rates of robbery and burglary.

source:
findarticles.com...

Starting around 1980, American crime rates began to go down while English ones (and, in fact, those in most European nations) moved up. Though England's murder rate is only a fraction of that found in the United States, the rate of other crimes - notably, burglary and auto theft - is now higher there than here.

Limiting guns to criminals does not solve any problems. It's amazing how you can be so passionate about something you know so little about.

Originally posted by calihan123
those are the facts. gun deaths come in second place only to vehicle accidents.

stop and think about it.

Among the healthiest age group, (10-24 year olds). What else is going to kill them? Falling off buildings? Sharks? Bears? Cannibalism? No, leading by quite a bit, it's cars, followed by guns and other violent crime. Any younger or older and there's heart disease, cancer, stroke, genetic disorders, and, well, automobiles.

Make it to 10 (really, five) and you're pretty much set statistically, even in developing nations. Young people don't really have much that causes them to drop dead by the thousands.

Gun deaths are SECOND to vehicle deaths, disregarding the health issues.

Disregarding health issues? What does that leave besides violence and accidents? Maulings? Dying in fires? Encounters with unexploded ordinance?

I bet violent crime is second to automobiles in non-health related causes of death in countries that have guns banned too.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by mdiinican]

Honestly, 32 people every day not as much as I would have thought.

While it is tragic, it also is not that much of an impact.

Under 12000 a year.

That is less that the number of alcohol related traffic deaths, or 46 per day.

During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA 2006).

www.cdc.gov...

It is also less than the number of Lung Cancer deaths per year, with 440 per day.

160,440 estimated deaths for lung/bronchial cancer in the US 2004 (Cancer Facts and Figures, American Cancer Society, 2004)

I could go on with several more... But now you know that the Alcohol/Tobacco Industries should maybe be higher priorities than further gun controls. About 500 people die each day because those industries been allowed to sell their addictive poisons to the populace...

I agree that perhaps more needs to be done to prevent gun violence, such as more education, but I for one do not support the restriction of American Citizens and their right to bear arms. The levels we are at now leave too many guns in the hands of criminals (which increasingly are the 'police officers' themselves), and not enough citizens with the option of defending themselves legally.

I consider those 32 people who die each day due to gun violence to be the ultimate martyrs of Patriotism, and worthy of this countries greatest honors.
Unfortunately, their fatal wounds are from 'friendly fire'....
But their ultimate sacrifice assures the freedom of every citizen.

Anything else leaves your grandchildren the naive prey of fascism.
DocMoreau

Originally posted by calihan123
And we are so concerned with everything BUT what is happening in our own cities. Our own neighboorhoods.

Maybe this is your own point of view, but other people do worry about what is happening in their own cities and neighboorhoods. There are plenty of anti-gang, anti-crime and anti-gun violence organizations put in place all over this country. Their are community watchers, and organizations that do watch out for their own neighboorhoods.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by schism85]

Since google is my friend apparently

www.firearmsandliberty.com...

Some truth verse lies re: guns

www.imarmed.net...

Doctors Vs Gunowners
April 17, 2008 | By Cory In Random Stuff | Comments(0)
Doctors Vs Gunowners, Democrats Unite. We must Ban the use of Doctors.

Doctors

The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171
Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.

Now think about this:

Guns

The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000. (Yes, that’s 80 million)
The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups is 1,500.
The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.
Statistics courtesy of FBI

Perhaps this was asked already... Do you know how many people are saved everyday because of hand guns?

reply to post by greeneyedleo

Well, that's it. We should shoot our doctors, throw our guns into our cars, and leave them at the junk yards.

I had seen this before and got a real kick out of it. Good work.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Well, that's it. We should shoot our doctors, throw our guns into our cars, and leave them at the junk yards.

I had seen this before and got a real kick out of it. Good work.

Well, truth be told....I am way more afraid of seeing a doctor, then being around guns, or walking down the street with some far off chance of dying from a gun.


Guess this thread is dead now. And so our guns shall remain.

[edit on 11/5/2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Yes, guns win again! JK

edit: accidentally double posted, my computer sucks. it failed to load the page and i didn't know the reply worked so i did it again. srry!

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Enigma Publius]

Originally posted by TheRooster
Perhaps this was asked already... Do you know how many people are saved everyday because of hand guns?

I doubt that those number are kept.

Sort of like how Sacks were not Tallied in the NFL until 1982....

If you were to include all the handguns 'used' by police officers when they are not acting criminal, and doing their job to enforce the laws and save people... Just as a deterent, the handguns carried by police save at least 32 lives a day....

DocMoreau

also: welcom to ATS. look, i know it may be discouraging to be debated so hotly; being a new member and all, but let me just remind you of a couple of factors here:
you have picked a bunch of conspiracy theorists to pose your idea of banning guns, you made comments like "look it up", you should be aware that conspiracy theorists are not a great target group for any kind of talk about taking away ANY rights they still have, most of us feel we have given up FAR to many rights as it is, and even if i never planned on buying a gun, i would totally be against the idea of taking away any right i had to do so. simply put: even though i don't intend to buy an AR-15 with a high capacity clip and armor piercing rounds, i want to know that i can if i so chose.
i did agree that guns are an easier way to kill someone, but if i had the choice, i would rather be shot to death than beaten or stabbed to death.
also: the majority of gun violence is NOT from a gun that is legally registered. i don't know many gangbangers who go to a gun shop to purchase their weapons. the legal, registered gun owners of this country (like myself) should not suffer because of someone else being irresponsible. way more people die from alcohol related incidents than guns, and how much attention does that get vs. nuclear attack (your example not mine) or guns? do we ban alcohol, or do we try to educate people to drink responsibly? here's what you do: make it so that if you are ever convicted of a violent crime, no guns for you. also, double the penalty involved with a crime when a gun is implemented in said crime. make it so that people must think more about their actions. if a man knows he can walk on parole after 6 years for murdering someone, he is not likely to think of consequences while commiting the crime, however, if there is a mandatory life sentence for killing someone with a gun, maybe criminals will pick a different weapon to use, a less lethal one...MAYBE.
that being said: i still doubt it. look, even if you ban guns, and even reloading equipment (gunpowder, etc.) it will do nothing to afect those who weren't buying the guns legaly to begin with, except give them more confidence that when they break into my house, i won't have a gun to shoot them back with, and people will always find another way to make a bomb. all you would do is put MANY more lives in danger if you try to take the guns away. example: the poor national guardmen who are sent door to door to collect firearms that are illegeal...here in alabama, may God have mercy on his soul, because no one else will.
also: you think it's scary that we are so passionate about our right to bear arms? HUH? are you trolling? it's hard to believe you are serious. giving up any right to an already controling government is what's scary, it is frightening that you and others like you do not understand how we came to be a country to begin with, the militas, the minute men, the revolution. If you give up your right to bear arms, how will you defend yourself against anything? thank goodness it hasn't been needed yet, but i do have weapons for the "just in case" scenario that so many of us worry about.
you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to know that you should never bring a knife to a gun fight.
i think i've been a little more polite than some, so i encourage you to counter anything i have said with ideas of how i am wrong on this one, but anyone with sense should be able to look at my two replies and understad some key points:
1. this is NOT the UK, our problems are unique to theirs, and what works for them may well not work for us, the countryside is different, the culture is different, and the laws SHOULD be different
2.if the idea of IRAN with nuclear weapons is taking a backseat to your fear of guns in whatever city you live in, you should move without packing anything, just get out while you can!
3.you cannot defend yourself from a nuke with another nuke, because nothing will be left to claim a victory over, however, you can defend yourself against a gun with another gun, matter of fact, i bet it beats trying to reason with them eveerytime.
4.this IS a conspiracy website, any suggestions to us about giving up a right of any kind will not go over well
5.it should not scare you that we are passionate about not giving up said right, it SHOULD scare you if you turn the whole of your well being over to your government and local authorities, after all, those may be the ones you must defend against someday, that's what our forefathers did, and it was called the american revolution.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! haha jk but seriously you've got to also consider the fact that there are plenty of other gun crimes that are never reported to the police in some tough neighborhoods or other circumstances so i'm guessing the number is probably even higher for the amount of people gunned down every day...
plus you have to also consider how this is a relatively low number in relation to alcohol related deaths, drug overdoses, and other things i mean if people are trying to say this is a reason why guns should be banned that's dumb there are plenty of other ways to kill people ... and most of these were probably in self defense so it was a good thing they had a gun ... i mean seriously what would you do if you saw someone about to be murdered or you were them? would you call 911? no it'd be too late ... so that's why everyone should carry a gun ... plus it would give people less temptation to kill others knowing that the other person was "packing some weapon" ... just a thought don't be so narrow-minded to statistics and take in all of the factors/possibilities first before automatically basically saying guns are the devil!

[edit on 5-11-2008 by baseball101]

reply to post by calihan123


Come on. Guns aren't the problem. If there were no guns in the US then there would be 32 people killed each day in violent crimes by other means.

To take away guns is to treat the symptoms instead of the cause of the problem.

The is no such thing as an easy fix to such problems. Here in NZ we basically outlawed smacking in an attempt to reduce family violence, and things have only gotten worse because now parents have to find new ways to discipline their children. Things have just gone down the crapper since.

Quick fixes don't work, history tells us this.



I'm a proponent to get us Kiwis our rights to carry guns back again. Here the criminals carry guns and the people who need them don't have them. The law here is the problem not the guns. Consider yourself lucky.

[edit on 11/6/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by calihan123


wanna try taking the guns from the people in this country? i'm sure the rate would go up quite a bit. you'll find that we wont give up our guns, but we'll share ammo

boy that didnt take long to show up,after the messiah was elected!
and what about the 2500 people that defend themselves each year? looks like the good outweighs the bad.

sorry i shouldn't have been so hard on you. mods,could we please change the name of the thread to "BLONDE FACTS ABOUT GUN CONTROL"?

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Spectre0o0]