32 people killed every single day

reply to post by calihan123


Hmmm, that's the funny thing about criminals, they generally aren't concerned with laws and what-not, which would likely include gun laws.

Originally posted by irishjon1973
For me a Gun is a weapon. There are a lot of weapons on the planet. Guns, bullets, knives, bombs, landmines, daisycutters(really love them) ,etc, the list is endless. Together they have ended a lot of lives prematurely.

Anyway, I have this real sick fantasy where I sometimes will sit and meditate on what the world would be like without any weapons. I close my eyes and just imagine how the world would work without any weapons. I think back through History and think see so many things dissolving becuase the world never invented weapons, it never even invented the word 'weapon' , we dont even know what the word means. This will sound very daft to a lot of people but you should sit down and try it. You would be surprised what comes into your head and how things start working themselves out in your mind. A world without weapons. Its really cool. i love doin it.

But, enough of my sick fantasy, back to reality , weapons were invented. The word weapon is in the dictionary. Well heres another thought then. What if we all picked a date. Any date. On that date all weapons are set down and disarmed. We disown the word. Its 2008. Why should we keep using and manufacturing weapons because people did so in the last century. We are in the first decade of a new century. It would be so easy to change. Anyways , I can dream.

and before people start raving about how this cannot work , please sit for moment and try to meditate on how a world without weapons would work. You will be surprised by answers and the peace that come into your mind.


Peace

if weapons had never been invented, I think we'd all be swinging from tree branches still, assuming our race lasted this long. Weapons of any kind will not be the end of us, it's who uses those weapons that will determine our fate.

Originally posted by Pfeil
reply to post by irishjon1973

 

Its quite a well known and accepted fact that almost all human beings require somesort of social contact and interaction with other human beings. Even after a few weeks the mind starts to crack, people will begin to talk to other people that they create in their own heads and after a few months people will actually start ignoring the environment their in and begin to mentally implode and begin to ingore their own needs. A high percentage of people if left in a complete solitude would eventually commit suicide or their mentality would become unraveled to the point beyond repair.


Basically, if most people on the planet became the last person on Earth, they would most likely turn into a mumbling, stumbling, mental vegetable or kill themselves.

Just something to read.
serendip.brynmawr.edu...


Isolation can cause...

and can cause...

I do believe the item you refererenced is specifically related to a situation where a person is in a small confined area without any stimuli. A person facing solitary confinemnet with sensory depravation in a prison cell for life would i am sure contemplate suicide. However many prisoners have overcome this by spending thier life meditating in thier cell. Imprisoned Buddist monks in the past have often confounded their captors by appearing quite content in their solitary confinement.
I don't know why you are referrencing prisoners in solitary confinement.
Your reference is a blog on a website by someone who had to submit a report. I do not accept that this qualifies it as highly regarded fact. Yet from this you imagine that a person left alone on the planet will go mad and top themselves. I think the reason for this is very often people believe they need other people to complete themselves.
A person left alone on the planet I am sure would find plenty of stimuli.

I haven't even mentioned that if you have awakened your spirit/soul/being inside of yourself you have the whole universe to explore.

Peace.

[edit on 6/11/08 by Pfeil]

Originally posted by infolurker By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.

Good post. I never heard this, but it does make perfect sense. Wonder if they also take out murders that go unsolved.

huh? How about?


With guns there are tragedies

With Gun Control, there are genocides

take a sheet from history, who's missing 2 million Armenians (i've heard Hitler got his ideas from somewhere..), and countless of Hitler's and Stalin's victims?

you apparently don't, that's for sure. turning in your weapons is a one-way street into the death camps.

PS:to learn from history or to repeat it, that's the question.

[edit on 2008.11.7 by Long Lance]

reply to post by calihan123

listen to yourself. if someone comes into your house with a gun...

exactly my point. they wouldnt HAVE a gun if they werent allowed.

I quoted one of your other posts and was going to reply as I found it to be one of the most ignorant thing I ever read on ATS to date. But I didn’t. I though, nawwwww, why bother.

Then I read the above quote and saw that you actually topped yourself.

THIS post/quote, in my opinion, is the most ignorant thing I've ever read on ATS, (your other quote in the running as a tight second.)

Years ago when I was working with Neal Knox and the Firearms coalition, once in a while someone would try to use the same line as you.
What they hadn’t bothered to research is not ONE - I mean NOT ONE gun related crime in NYC that year, was committed with a legally registered handgun. NYC of all places.

And then there's:
Kennesaw Georgia
Where it’s a law that each household has a gun!

The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence.
The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

By the way Kennesaw was voted one of the 10 best towns to raise a family in all of the USA!

See the Video The Truth about the Right To Carry and take a look at survivors who tell their stories - tell the truths of how the Second Amendment and their handgun saved their lives!

Try taking a firearms course.
Learn to load, fire, clean and carry a handgun correctly and how to store it responsibly.
Educate yourself.
Once you’ve done that - see if you change your mind.

After 7 years of teaching Comprehensive Firearm Control/Safety to WOMEN - I’ve not had ONE student yet that didn’t change her mind.


People say ignorance is bliss.
I say it’s just ignorance.


...taps...


EDIT: Forgot the smiley


[edit on 7-11-2008 by silo13]

Originally posted by calihan123
Heres what I dont get. Why do people always think about the possibilities of other countries nuking us, or our own government killing us, or some sort of genocide, and not about the fact that on average, every single day in america 32 people are killed in gun violence. 32 people a day. And we are so concerned with everything BUT what is happening in our own cities. Our own neighboorhoods.

Maybe we should worry a little more about cleaning up the crime in our country before we start thinking about some outrageous nuclear war claims.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

One day you might actually get your wish, its very probable our Government might add strick laws for gun control, possibly making it illegal to own one.

But like the old saying goes, Guns dont kill people. People Kill People. We'll find new ways to harm eachother, weather it be with a knife, a spear, or even a rock. I actually read a story of a teenager who killed a security guard with a tire iron.

Im not with gun restrictions as its just that. RESTRICTIONS. It would restrict fair and hard working people from protecting themselves.

If you want to cut that murder rate down, why not invest in proper housing not project housing. Our welfare system needs serious work, and most import the drug trade, we cant combat that as its our own government that flows mass drugs into the country, so until that stops violence on the streets wont stop.

The key isn't to take away peoples free will to solve a single problem that will just be savvyed around with different types of violence, but rather attacking the true core of the problem. Poverty.

By no means would that end murder, but it sure would cut that number down to a small percentage.

Originally posted by calihan123

Originally posted by schism85
Have you ever heard of home protection? If someone busts in your house some day with a gun, you will not be singing that same tune.

listen to yourself. if someone comes into your house with a gun...

exactly my point. they wouldnt HAVE a gun if they werent allowed.

There is absolutely no way to remove guns from those criminals that you speak of. Laws can only affect law abiding citizens, and tend to empower the lawless. There will always be ways to acquire weapons, drugs, abortions, whatever... on the black market, which by definition, operates outside the law and in fact is actually created by those same laws (see Prohibition and Bootlegging).

And, for the sake of argument, lets say that the United States outlaws firearms and everyone goes along with it (which wouldn't happen). I'm willing to bet my life that the rate of violence involving sharp, edged weapons (knives, axes, swords...) would drastically increase. What then, outlaw sharp things?

Guns are just tools. Nothing more. You can kill someone with anything, and if you think about it, it's actually alot easier to get away with it if you DON'T use a gun. So, we're back at the beginning.

Wait, I've got a great idea! Outlaw killing people! What's that? We did that already and it doesn't seem to work? Damn...

reply to post by bloodcircle

a little off topic, but i beg to differ with the idea that going against a government with guns is a thing of the past. Have you any idea just how much one gun..the AK-47 has changed and shaped history around the world? now there has been an alert to threads about going against the government and call to arms and all, this is not one of those, but i do wish to bring attention to the fact that the AK has been used in virtually every coup in history since it's design. They are cheap, they are easily made automatic, they are disassembled in about 10 seconds for cleaning and what not, and for better or worse, even a child can operate them. I have seen interviews where many western leaders of military have admitted that they wish the AK was never made. at the rate that common citizens outnumber those in power, if all of those who oppose the govenment was equipped with AKs then it would indeed spell trouble for our country as it is. the AK is responsible for the biggest body count out of any weapon ever produced...including missles and what have you. and this is only 1 gun. so don't be quite so quick to just assume that what you mentioned could never happen, because it could.
oh yeah, i also remember reading that rounds not even designed for the AK can actually be chambered and fired in an emergency situation..now that IS amazing.


[edit on 7-11-2008 by Enigma Publius]

Originally posted by jam321
calihan123 , I totally disagree with you about the gun issue.

However, I totally admire you for standing toe to toe against all of us that have disagreed with you. That says a lot about you. Many people would have gave up a long time ago.

yes i agree. to be so head strong is indeed what makes you a valuable member here. so don't get discouraged (i have the feeling you won't, with or without my encouragement, but it's the thought that counts) keep posting and keep saying what you feel; sometimes it will seem like everyone here is against you, but i'm willing to bet that this issue aside, there are probably a great number of things we could agree on. but not this one..bang bang..i like my guns.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius

Originally posted by jam321
calihan123 , I totally disagree with you about the gun issue.

However, I totally admire you for standing toe to toe against all of us that have disagreed with you. That says a lot about you. Many people would have gave up a long time ago.

yes i agree. to be so head strong is indeed what makes you a valuable member here. so don't get discouraged (i have the feeling you won't, with or without my encouragement, but it's the thought that counts) keep posting and keep saying what you feel; sometimes it will seem like everyone here is against you, but i'm willing to bet that this issue aside, there are probably a great number of things we could agree on. but not this one..bang bang..i like my guns.

LOL. I really can't help but wonder if you two would be so "supportive" if the OP was male, or didn't post an avatar pic.

But then again maybe the OPs well researched, inciteful opinions, along with the multitude of facts and links to legitimate statistics to back up her statements is what inspires such respect and admiration. Yeah, that must be it. That fact stuff.

reply to post by calihan123


Nope. Not allowing guns is not the same having them. The mere fact that they exist means people will have them. If you do not allow people to have them then the only ones who will have them are the people that you'd be wanting to defend yourself against. Remember all the genocides that have gone on throughout history? Imagine if all those people who were slaughtered were armed with guns...

reply to post by calihan123


Then you better ban knives, forks, spoons, plates and bowls for making people fat and dying of heart disease. Then, ban buff big people because there would be less bullying by your logic.

Crimes don't need guns invoved to be pulled off.

Originally posted by calihan123

Originally posted by schism85
reply to post by calihan123

 

I can read the website, you don't need to clutter this thread by copying and pasting an entire page.

.. i started it.. i can clutter it

No, you can not. There are rules you will abide by. Excessive quoting is not allowed, period.

reply to post by Sonya610



I agree. I see nothing admirable about the OP. She didn't even reply to most of the members on here, and pretty much bailed on the thread. I have seen a few posts begging for a response from the OP, and nothing yet. Don't ya just hate it when people don't blindly agree with you?

I admit, ATS can issue quit a beating on some posters, but neither did she stick it out and defend herself, nor did she have any kind of good argument to back it up besides, her stating guns are bad.

Isn't respect about earning it? If you are going to post something, expect, and be ready for people to disagree with you.

FYI, I have recieved a 'beatdown' on a thread I started once. I argued my point, realised where my logic fell off, and then thanked the members for helping me gain a better perspective on things. Even if your views have not changed on a topic you have posted, at least show the respect to the other members who are asking you serious questions, and answer them.

Untill then, I can't say much good about the OP, based on what I have seen.

Sorry for being off topic, but I had to chime in.



[edit on 7-11-2008 by schism85]

reply to post by Sonya610

But then again maybe the OPs well researched, inciteful opinions, along with the multitude of facts and links to legitimate statistics to back up her statements is what inspires such respect and admiration. Yeah, that must be it. That fact stuff.

Do I detect a touch of sarcasm here? Nah, must be me. Sonya couldn't ever use sarcasm!

Don't immediately discount your potential friends or foes, my friend. On another issue, she may seem like another person.

TheRedneck

I know this is just the Texan in me, but, if we all had a gun on our hips, there'd be no more Columbines or Virginia Tech incidents. Everyone behaves better when they know that it is a bad idea to push anyone else around. Your thoughts?

reply to post by michael


No, its not just a Texan thing. The old addage " An Armed Society Is A Polite Society!" makes alot of sense. Especialy in this day an age where the crooks run the courts and most of our cities!

Zindo

No Criminals in My Country... you can only violate a citizen once... I think we put too much weight on death... yea, no one wants to die... so I say those that want to do harm to others should always face the possiblity that - committing crimes . soon or later Bang... so keep the right to bear arms and keep the criminals at bay.. allow people to kill criminals and suddenly you dont have any.... then what is a government going to do...? so, no criminals equals smaller less harmful government ... not the other way around... IMO...

Originally posted by calihan123
i do think this is a great country, but because so many people live here and there are so many different things that go on here, it leaves a lot of doors open for violence. we allow people to have guns pretty freely. In the UK after the killing of 16 children at a kindergarten school, they really cracked down on gun control laws. And the uk has a very low amount of murders per year. Same with canada.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

My dear, you are totally incorrect!

The United Kingdom has a HIGH rate of murders per year. Have you ever heard of the town (not city) of London? There are dozens of murders there every week. It has one of the highest murder rates in the world. I live in the UK and believe me, I know!!!

Just because guns have 'controls' here does not mean to say that they are freely available to criminals.

What should be done is this:

Pass a law requiring every male AND female over the age of 16 to carry a gun. All the gang members and trolls would quickly shoot each other to death allowing the rest of the population to get on with their lives.

Think about it for a moment too. If the little old lady down the street has three uzi's and a machine pistol strapped to the back of her front door, the gang of teenage boys might think twice about breaking into her house, robbing and rapging her. If the crazy guy over the road has a shot gun and just wants to be left alone... who's going to annoy him???

It would add a level playing field to the whole issue... and the little scroats of society would think twice before doing something rash.