Socialised Healthcare - American Views Needed

I've seen in many threads how americans seem to be fearful of socialised healthcare. Many seem to see it as the bottom of the barrell, minimum, awful system. Many seem to think you'll see a manager and not a doctor, or that you can't decide your own treatment.

So i have to ask americans here on ATS, what do you really think socialised healthcare is like? Speaking as someone in the UK who has had access to the NHS, i cannot understand your paranoia and fear over the system. If the government tired to abolish it here i can honestly say that the country would be in uproar and the government would be gone overnight. The NHS isn't perfect but it's absolutely amazing nonetheless.

So come on america, tell me why you're so scared of a social healthcare system.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I'm not afraid of it. Speaking as a person who has no insurance because it's not affordable and have no insurance available through an employer, I would be glad to be able to go to the doctor when I am sick.

But, I think he's actually spoken about giving the uninsured a chance to buy into the same insurance that government employees get.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


i think its great, i can understand the arguement for it though with wait times and people having to pay for somethings

im rather healthy so to me, i think its a little biased, i also work in the medical field

we are all people and deserve to have care and medicine if needed and treatment to help that

most docs i know, love helping people and the $$$ is the perk and not the $$$ is great and helping people is the perk

thats just the docs I know, some might be different, who knows

i would love the UK health system here, but who knows

we are a democracy and that should be voted on

Just go watch SICKO. Love or Hate Michael Moore, it's got information in that film that EVERYONE could benefit from

heres your social healthcare, right here in this computer, all i have to do is click on it and it will be activated.

I have never been IN socialised health care.

But, i have talked to people that are, and the main message i get is that everything is fine for the simple stuff.

But, when an emergency happens, and you NEED the BEST and right NOW, its not so good.


Maybe because we are America and we are so kick ass, we are just going to make socilism work. Or thats what i have to at least convince myself now...

I am not against healthcare for everyone. I am against government running it. Government does not have a good record.

Things government can't presently run efficiently

Social security
Budget
Housing programs
Bailout money
Defense contracts
oversight and regulation
Medicare/Medicaid
Taking care of veterans


anyone care to add more....

from my understanding Canadians come down here in droves because they don't like standing in line.

a hospital in theory should do whatever they can to save your life, regardless of your coverage, but boob jobs and electives should be more expensive and not covered by HMO's.

I don't like the idea of government run health care. They don't have a good track record of running much of anything.

Plus, if the system is socialized, I think that will cut back on the competition to be the best. I have several chronic illnesses, and I want to go to the best. The best doctor that has worked to prove he is the best. The best hospital that has competed and improved their technology to be the best.

My worry is that if things are socialized and/or standardized, there won't be as much effort put into being the "best" because there won't be any reason to work to get there.

reply to post by drsmooth23


well emergency rooms now in USA have waits, ever been to one?

they go by how urgent something is

its not like the TV shows

granted their are alot of waits but america being the way it is, i think it will create and fund jobs for alot of people in the medical field

hospitals will still have emergency rooms and wards to deal with the acutely ill or injured

as far as anything else, most isnt urgent by medical standards but for a patient in pain it seems the end of the world

i see it everyday here at my hospital

but im all for socialized health care

People make points about not having insurance but in reality it doesn't matter. A homeless person will still be saved and worked on.

I have many poverty level friends (we're young in early 20's) and they have multiple times been hurt and got fixed. Then they have to pay or if they don't have a high enough income they can file paperwork and its FREE.

I also know that many Canadians come across our border into the US so they can have operations done because of such long waiting lists, not with the little stuff though.

I remember some saying like "Your pet can get an operation the next day but you need to wait 3 months at times"

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
reply to post by drsmooth23

 

i think it will create and fund jobs for alot of people in the medical field

It's currently the most understaffed field in America. People are being shipped in from other countries and given no-interest loans to go to school to be RN's and PA's and doctors.

Nobody here wants to do it. Or people here are too dumb to pass the tests.

Take a 3 month EMT class and you're guaranteed a job provided you arent a dumbass or clepto but according to some EMT and Paramedic friends of mine things are so bad the companies are overlooking dumbassery and cleptomania.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


yeah, there are a few EMT's here I dont trust, but they are here everyday and do the best for the patient

I dont mind the work, I like helping people, regardless of how selfish that sounds

well I hope there is growth soon, as population goes up, so does death, illness, disease, and etc's of lifes ailments

Originally posted by vapedson
People make points about not having insurance but in reality it doesn't matter. A homeless person will still be saved and worked on.

I have many poverty level friends (we're young in early 20's) and they have multiple times been hurt and got fixed. Then they have to pay or if they don't have a high enough income they can file paperwork and its FREE.

I also know that many Canadians come across our border into the US so they can have operations done because of such long waiting lists, not with the little stuff though.

I remember some saying like "Your pet can get an operation the next day but you need to wait 3 months at times"

Mmmmmmm.......I don't know about all that vapedson. That may be so in an emergency case, but in a case in which you have a condition or disease which requires long term expensive treatment, not so much.

People are denied life saving treatments quite often[in the US] due to the fact that their so called insurance won't cover it. And,no doctor is required to treat a person who has no ability to pay. I've had to go to the doc as a self pay. Fortunately, I had seen said doc before when I had insurance, otherwise, I'd have been SOL.

[edit on 11/5/2008 by chickenshoes]

I've been to the UK and Canada and I know they have pretty darn good health care systems.... But in a way being a veteran (Retired Marine) I am in a type of social health care system... My fear is that if our government were to set up something as bad as the VA hospitals... then we would most definitely be at the bottom of the list in world medical care!

Originally posted by skeptic1
I don't like the idea of government run health care. They don't have a good track record of running much of anything.

Plus, if the system is socialized, I think that will cut back on the competition to be the best. I have several chronic illnesses, and I want to go to the best. The best doctor that has worked to prove he is the best. The best hospital that has competed and improved their technology to be the best.

My worry is that if things are socialized and/or standardized, there won't be as much effort put into being the "best" because there won't be any reason to work to get there.

Being up in Canada I don't see that at all. Sure some people go to the States for some things, but for the reasons everyone thinks.

We have some of the leading medical centers in the world. Alot of them are tied into our University systems so that they can do their research and get grants. The huge university hospital close to where I am in is one the foremost children's hospitals in the world. All that under socialized medicine.

Why Canadians go to the States? Mostly for transplants. It makes perfect sense, you guys have 10 times the population we do. When you are waiting for that heart or kidney, you have to find something out of a group of 33 million people. Go to the States and you have all of a sudden found yourself in a group of 330 million.

The reports of us waiting months upon months upon months for things are grossly exaggerated. My mother in law found out she had breast cancer. Within a week and a half of being diagnosed she was back at home recovering from her mastectomy. She was told that had it been dire, she would have had it done that day. I personally had to get a battery of tests done on my thinker and within a month had 2 CAT scans and some other funky electro thingy done.

There is a certain reasoning for putting this in the hands of the government. Despite what you think, they do care about you. Why is that? Because without a healthy you, they lose their tax income. They want to make sure that you are in tip top health so that they can keep counting on your money coming in. The insurance companies don't really care, they give you what you need to get you off their books.

Originally posted by chickenshoes
And,no doctor is required to treat a person who has no ability to pay.

This might be true for a family practice physician, or some clinic, but it is definitely not true at hospitals if you are in a life-threatening emergency situation.

Hospitals are required to stabilize patients before transferring them to a charity hospital. If you come in the ER bleeding to death from gunshot wounds, they cannot just shove you right back out the door because you don't have insurance.

Ok , enuf with the Canadians!
what about you? You're either 1) fully insured or 2) destitute
in either case, you get taken care of. If not , it's: 1) well, I (or my wife, or my 3 year old) ain't doing so poorly, let's wait and see. 2) #, i ( or spouse etc.)really ought to see a doctor, but damn! can i afford 100 or so for the office visit plus a hundred more for meds? (and if you're asking yourself, the answer is probably not) or 3) I'm gonna die! take me to the emergency room, i'll give a fake name, i'll pay i don't care!
And those are all the choices you have! Sure you can be honest and try to "buy" affordable health insurance. if you're under 30, healthy as a horse and with no dependants, you might even be able to. But what about the others who have those treacherous pre-existing conditons, or who have the gall to develop asthma, heart problems; etc? or, even, worse, who produce imperfect children who are not readily insurable? Health care in a civilizd country is not a fringe benefit of a cushy job! it's a fundamental right: we all pay income taxes according to our revenues; why not the same system for health insurance, IT WORKS!

reply to post by chickenshoes


Mr. chickenshoes you are an insightful man and you know what you're talking about. Sure, they'll save you if an ambulance lugs you in and sets you up, but should you need anything long-term, like phys. therapy, meds, more tests, etc... you're on your own.!

I just don't understand your stance. The brunt of medical care given is not in response to life-threatening situations, but to any number of maybe benign, maybe potentially serious health problems. People ought to be able to consult a doctor without worrying about how they're gonna buy groceries that week! Doctors want ot get paid right away, regardless of results; so the 'interesting cases" they accept are those with the juicy medical plans. So much for rock-bottom HMO's and stripped plans.reply to post by TheHypnoToad