Was Akhenaten the first Christian?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Was Akhenaten the first Christian?

No. He didn't believe in Christ so therefore he couldn't be a 'christian'.

I am actually in the middle of reading a book on Akhenaten. It contains some of his writings and love poetry to the Aten. The writings sound a lot like St. John of the Cross and his love poems to the God of today.

Perhaps Akhenaton was reincarnated as Moses or something ... that would be an interesting discussion. I think Jim Marrs talks about something like that in his books.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Was Akhenaten the first Christian?

No. He didn't believe in Christ so therefore he couldn't be a 'christian'.

Well it's not so simple, but yes it probably should've read "the first judaeo/christian?"

What does it mean to be a christian? There are probably as many answers are christians.

Speaking of Moses, there has been a lot of speculation about this relationship. Some have said that they are one, others have said was a follower of Atenism (myself incl). Of course separating fact from fable is almost impossible.

He was the first monotheist we know of.

I'm quite certain he is strongly linked with the Canaanite sect who became the Jews, probably through the violent reversals of the religion.

I suspect it spread throughout Canaan in the same way Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire.

Moses was probably a high priest or general, forced into exile.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


That's exactly what I thought. Star for you

Comparison of Akhnaton’s love him to Aton And Psalm CIV from the Christian bible –Line by line …

Akhanton’s Hymn – The world is in darkness like the dead. Every lion cometh forth from his den; all serpents sting. Darkness reigns.

Psalm CIV – Thou makest the darkness and it is night, wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth. The young lions roar after their prey; they seek their meat from God.
**********************************************
Akhnaton’s Hymn – When Thou risest in the horizon … the darkness is banished … Then in all the world they do their work.

Psalm CIV – The sun riseth, they get them away, and lay them down in their dens. Man goeth forth unto his work, and to his labour until the evening.
***********************************************
Akhanton’s Hymn – All trees and plants flourish, … the birds flutter in their marshes … All sheep dance upon their feet.

Psalm CIV – The trees of the Lord are full of sap … wherein the birds make their nests … The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats.
***********************************************
Akhanton’s Hymn – The ships sail upstream and down-stream alike … The fish in the river leap up before Thee; and Thy rays are in the midst of the great sea.

Psalm CIV – Younder is the sea, great an dwide, wherein are … both small and great beasts. There go the ships …
***********************************************
Akhanton’s Hymn – How manifold are all Thy works! … Thous didst create the earth according to They desire – men, all cattle, … all that are upon the earth …

Psalm CIV – O Lord, how manifold are Thy works! In wisdom hast Thou made them all. The earth is full of Thy creatures
***********************************************

Akhanton’s Hymn – Thou has set a Nile in heaven that it may fall for them, making floods upon the mountains .. and watering their fields. The Nile in heaven is for the service of the strangers, and for the cattle of every land.

Psalm CIV – He watereith the hills from above: the earth is filled with the fruit of They works. He bringeth forth grass for the cattle and green herb for the service of men.
***********************************************
Akhanton’s Hymn – Thou markets the seasons… Thou hast made the distant heaven in order to rise therein … dawning, shining afar off, and returning.

Psalm CIV – He appointed the moon for certain seasons, and the sun knoweth his going down.
************************************************
Akhanton’s Hymn – The world is in They hand, even as Thou hast made them. When thou hast risen they live: when Thou settest they die .. By The man liveth.

Psalm CIV – Thou wait all upon Thee … When Thou givest them (food) they gather it; and when Thou openest Thy hand they are filled with good. When Thou hidest Thy face they are troubled: when Thou takest away their breath they die.

SIDE NOTE - the love poems by St. John of the Cross also have the same flavor as the love songs written by Akhnaton to the Aton. They aren't as close to being 'word for word' as these ... because St. John was in prison a lot and probably never read Akhnatons work. But the flavor is there. It seems universal.

I don't know if the Psalms were taken from the Egyptian writings or if there is some etherial reason for the simularities. But I found them to be interesting.

reply to post by FlyersFan


That was AWESOME!! Star!

However, I must say that this isn't necessarily evidence for Akhenaten being the father of Christianity. Christians have stolen a lot from other religions, evidence: Christmas (Christmas tree = Pagan), Easter (Easter Bunnies & Eggs = Pagan) and St Valentines Day (Card giving = Pagan).

"How the grinch stole christmas" ?? Lol. more like "How the Christians stole Chrismas"

Doesn't it make you wonder, that Akhenaten sculpted a spherical Aten? And that he was then damned and erased from history? The same heretical idea (that of the Sun being spherical) was opposed by the priests up until just a few centuries ago. What incentive is there in having a flat earth at the center of the solar system?

Perhaps Akhenaten knew that the sun is much, much larger than the Earth, and also that the Earth is pulled along by the Sun? Perhaps Akhenaten knew that the Earth is a satellite of the Sun, and that it is the Sun, which determines our route through space. The Sun is so much larger than the Earth, and it is phenomenally powerful, and it flies through the solar system, and we are just along for the ride. Maybe the truth of that, could be harmful to the priesthood?

Maybe a simpler religion was not the profitable one? Like the temple of Jesus' day where you had the Priest/Merchant collaboration which Jesus hated so much. Really Jesus' reaction to the priests of his day was similar to Akhenaten's reaction in the Amarna heresy. Akhenaten gave most of his wealth away and didn't want anything to do with conquest. Jesus din't want to be a King in the boring sense either. They were both Kings who wanted to be among the people.

He was a singularly amazing man, who took it upon himself to break people's perceptions and free them from costly tombs and endless fleecing by priests. He pointed to the Sun, as the main blessing of the true Creator. Now today we are constantly and daily more and more amazed at how right he was, and how amazing the Sun really is.

reply to post by smallpeeps


I'm not overly versed on Akhenaten. I saw a fleeting reference to his monotheism on a documentary about pyramids. It dawned on me that it had a certain familiarity with my own [ex-]religion, Christianity. That prompted me to look up Akhenaten on wikipedia where I saw the stuff I posted in the OP.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Perhaps Akhenaten knew that the Earth is a satellite of the Sun, and that it is the Sun, which determines our route through space.

So I'll say that I didn't know that he understood that the Sun was spherical but can we be sure he supposed that it was at the centre of the solar system. Or even more amazing, did he suppose that is was not the centre of the universe? THAT would be amazing.

I personally don't think that a spherical sun would prompt outrage as much as claims that the sun is at the centre of the solar system instead of earth.

Maybe a simpler religion was not the profitable one? Like the temple of Jesus' day where you had the Priest/Merchant collaboration which Jesus hated so much.

I don' think anyone is going to argue this point. The traditional system with it's many deities and therefore many temples dedicated to each deity. Where there is a temple, there is money flow, which in turn means a power monopoly. Akhenaten's monotheism was a deadly threat to the elite of his day, the priests of the many deities of traditional system. The money flows would change direction and power would probably be given back to the people, over themselves. The attempted erasing is the watermark of conspiracies. - Suddenly this conversation seems well placed on ATS

[edit on 11/5/2008 by Good Wolf]

Pythagoras is supposed to have studied with the Egyptian priesthood, and he conceived of a spherical earth that orbited around a central fire.

Not only that, but he also stated that the sun orbited around the central fire, so it can truly be said that he believed we were not in the center of the universe.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Eleleth]

Originally posted by Eleleth
sun orbited around the central fire

Truly fascinating. But two things that pop into my head. Firstly can you substantiate that Pythagoras studied with the Egyptian priesthood, and indeed which priests?

Secondly, if this is true, I doubt it would have been a threat to the system like Akhenaten was, so there would probably tolerance. Anything that he would come up with could just be denied by the priests.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by Eleleth
sun orbited around the central fire

Truly fascinating. But two things that pop into my head. Firstly can you substantiate that Pythagoras studied with the Egyptian priesthood, and indeed which priests?

Secondly, if this is true, I doubt it would have been a threat to the system like Akhenaten was, so there would probably tolerance. Anything that he would come up with could just be denied by the priests.

It is difficult to substantiate much of anything about Pythagoras' life, considering the paucity of source materials. Some would even say he was a completely mythical character. Iamblichus wrote this around 300 AD:

Here in Egypt he frequented all the temples with the greatest diligence, and most studious research, during which time he won the esteem and admiration of all the priests and prophets with whom he associated. Having most solicitously familiarized himself with every detail, he did not, nevertheless, neglect any contemporary celebrity, whether sage renowned for wisdom, or peculiarly performed mystery; he did not fail to visit any place where he thought he might discover something worthwhile. That is how he visited all of the Egyptian priests, acquiring all the wisdom each possessed. He thus passed twenty-two years in the sanctuaries of temples, studying astronomy and geometry, and being initiated in no casual or superficial manner in all the mysteries of the Gods.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Eleleth]

reply to post by Eleleth


Is it known when he visited Egyptian Temples?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
So I'll say that I didn't know that he understood that the Sun was spherical but can we be sure he supposed that it was at the centre of the solar system. Or even more amazing, did he suppose that is was not the centre of the universe? THAT would be amazing.

I personally don't think that a spherical sun would prompt outrage as much as claims that the sun is at the centre of the solar system instead of earth.

Yes of course, but look at how the Aten is spherical and than ask yourself why these representations HAD to be erased, to promote a "flat Earth" which is what the priests eventually did. If the Sun is a sphere, (as opposed to a disc) then surely this recommends that the Earth also, is a sphere?

A few assumptions/points:

1: The priests of today (Papist and Hebraic alike) are the greatest students of Akhenaten and the 18th dynasty, and Jesus, who came later. Both Jewish and Catholic sides of the dialectic have (and have had) full and complete knowledge of whose Obelisk is at the center of their astrological plaza at the Pope's house and whose guilt they are carrying around, for 3000 years. In 300AD they transferred their collective guilt onto Jesus' legend (Jesus was an ancestor of Akhenaten through the Ptolomies) so rather than damnation of Jesus (which was impossible) they simply took the legend of Christ and ran with it. The legend of "Christ" or "Christos" was much older than Jesus of course.

2: It is these religious "fathers" people (like the priests of Jesus' day) who desire full and complete control, and not a single "impious" king alive on Earth. The Rabbi and the Cardinal/Jesuit are in complete agreement on one thing; That the world needs to be ratcheted back a few centuries to a pre-industrial phase, at least for the masses, who are unruly. Technology in the hands of the masses, is what gives ALL PRIESTS AND RABBIS COLD SWEATS AT NIGHT.

3: History is ful of MORE THAN ONE great person who has been removed from history, by this same force; the combined power of the two arms of the Mosaic Global Dialectic. It is the erasure of Akhenaten, which they subconsciously and also conciously, carry as a stone around their necks.

Maybe a simpler religion was not the profitable one? Like the temple of Jesus' day where you had the Priest/Merchant collaboration which Jesus hated so much.

I don' think anyone is going to argue this point. The traditional system with it's many deities and therefore many temples dedicated to each deity. Where there is a temple, there is money flow, which in turn means a power monopoly.

Yes, no different than barrels of oil in our modern day. It's money which matters. Both Jesus and Akhenaten tried to deprive the priests of their wealth, calling them to be truly righteous men.

Akhenaten's monotheism was a deadly threat to the elite of his day, the priests of the many deities of traditional system. The money flows would change direction and power would probably be given back to the people, over themselves. The attempted erasing is the watermark of conspiracies. - Suddenly this conversation seems well placed on ATS

Yeah, but the signal to noise ratio on ATS is probably similar to that of Jesus' day where like in that movie "The Life of Brian", you have a whole streetfull of 'messiahs' and no shortage of people who'll stop and listen, then go on with their lives.

It is not acceptable that the priests of Earth, be they Jewish or Papist, would kill and then erase a noble and visionary King.

There are people who say that priests are better than Kings, and those who say that BOTH should be removed. But to lose the Kings, means that no tribe would have a Chief --A disastrous idea. And to lose the priests means no tribe would have a shaman or medicine man --Another wrong idea.

Both positions, King/Chief and Priests/Shaman, have their place in human life, and on Earth, but today's forms are so mangled by material pursuits (which Akhenaten and his family rejected) that is is difficult to see truth through all the flashy distractions.

It is fair to assume that secretly, even groups like the Cathars and other hated groups who faced erasure, as a people, were aware of some memory from the past, where the same thing had happened.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by smallpeeps]

Someone forgot about Abraham and jumped directly to Moshe. The Egyptian ties to Moshe are clearly laid out in the Bible and his post in Egyptian govt too. Egyptian hieroglyphs clearly show the Biblical story but are covered up because Egypt is scared Israel will claim their land. Watch the discovery channels show from simca yacobovich called "Decoding the exodus".



[edit on 11/6/2008 by theindependentjournal]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Someone forgot about Abraham and jumped directly to Moshe. The Egyptian ties to Moshe are clearly laid out in the Bible and his post in Egyptian govt too. Egyptian hieroglyphs clearly show the Biblical story but are covered up because Egypt is scared Israel will claim their land. Watch the discovery channels show from simca yacobovich called "Decoding the exodus".

Nobody "forgot" Abraham. It's like looking through a telescope, in the recent past, is Jesus, then comes the Hebraic priesthood of Jehu and his restored Levitical buddies (who just happened to FIND the law of Moses in a box somewhere..lol) and then Moses (somewhere waaaay back there), and THEN Abraham. Nobody has forgotten Abe, just that by looking at the whole frameowrk, one can start to see the central theme.

I disagree with a lot of what Yacobovich says, he is too militant and is really kind of a buffoon. I like James Cameron though, (Terminator, T2, ALIENS, True Lies, The Abyss, Titanic... And then Moses?) and I think that the Yacobovich show was really interesting, but I do not agree with everything in it because there's a lot of unneccesary connections he makes.

I think the theme can be sketched very easily. Trying to define the details, will be difficult until the Vatican archives are opened, which will eventually happen either by force or some other impetus.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by smallpeeps


Are you able to construct and post a speculative timeline/relationship-tree on here. I'm having a hard time making all the connections.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Yes of course, but look at how the Aten is spherical and than ask yourself why these representations HAD to be erased, to promote a "flat Earth" which is what the priests eventually did.

Actually, Ahkenaten did not promote a spherical Earth, and the Aten is always (before and since) depicted as a sphere (flattened.)

1: The priests of today (Papist and Hebraic alike) are the greatest students of Akhenaten and the 18th dynasty, and Jesus, who came later.

Uhmm... actually, they know about as much as the average person. They know more about Jesus than the average person does because they read the writings of the early Church Fathers.

If I can correct some impressions....

* Pharaohs before and after Ahkenaten were seen as "living gods."
* The wealth of the land was stored in temples (everyone gave expensive gifts to the gods) and in the pharaoh's treasury.
* The economy was struggling.
* Ahkenaten wanted to continue the grand building projects like his predecessors so he could have a lot of temples, etc.
* When he kicked the other gods out and made himself (he declares himself to be the god Aten) the one and only god -- he immediately gets ALL the wealth in ALL the other temples. After this he is addressed (see the Amarna Letters) as "The king, my lord, my God, my Sun, the Sun from the sky"
* He then goes off and builds his own city (named Ahkenaten (called Amarna today), after his godly self) in the middle of the desert, away from resources. Shipping stuff to his city is expensive and hard work... and the nobles were sort of obligated to move there. We have found the city of the workers who built it, and many died of abuse and broken bones... at an age far earlier than other workers on royal projects.
* At his death, the country is almost bankrupt and is in danger of being taken over by other regional powers.
* And to top it all off, his reign had at least one outbreak of a serious and rapid spreading disease (thought to be either the plague, polio, or influenza.)
* After his death, it was said that the gods had turned against him for his treatment of them (and that the plagues, etc, were the result of his impious actions.) en.wikipedia.org...

Josh Bernstein had a special on this on the Geographic channel... you may be able to find it around.

There's lots more, but I guess the bottom line is that within the past 25 years archaeologists have made some discoveries that most of the world didn't pay attention to. en.wikipedia.org...

Anyway... I hope you'll go back and explore some of the Wikipedia stuff (some of which is wrong and out of date) and then google for some of the specifics.

The "one god" concept is really different than the Christian version.

Thanks for that Byrd.

Originally posted by Byrd
The "one god" concept is really different than the Christian version.

I knew it would be, this religion has changed it's form a number of times. No way could it have been preserved since his time.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I for one really appreciate you bringing this subject up!
It is obvious to me that I have research to do.
Thanks!

Uhmm...
Anyway... I hope you'll go back and explore some of the Wikipedia stuff (some of which is wrong and out of date) and then google for some of the specifics.

Byrd, if I wanted to learn to believe the cover-story, I would have gone to a college professor and experienced the same condescension.

...I am guessing you think that's where truth is kept? Colleges built by people who wanted the common folk to not have any holy scriptures? Universities built by the same forces that wanted the world to believe that the world was flat, not-moving?

Thanks for your post, which clearly assumes that I didn't know, all of what you said. It was well written and every word is in accordance with what American universities would teach a person.

But would you not agree, that there are vacuums, of knowledge, which are maintained, by those in power? Is it possible, that the pictures we are given, about historical figures, might be delivered (or drilled weekly) into our heads with a certain "spin" attached to them? Kinda like the spin of a drill-bit, if you ask me. Talk about your spin-doctoring, eh?

But since you encouraged me to visit Wikipedia, I figured I'd give you some good things to check out there next time you go:

wiki/Iatrogenic
wiki/Ivory_tower
wiki/Trepanning



Let's be clear: Wikipedia represents the KNOWN, ie.e that which colleges will teach and recieve payment for. It NEVER will EVER help us find, the SECRET. Wikipedia will NOT admit anything except collegiate or published (read: wealthy enough to print books) material and is NOT a tool for original research, that is to say, any connecting of the dots, ie.e. original reSEARCHing will be not only mocked by Wikipedia, but fully and totally removed from it.

Research of history, is the most important thing we humans alive can do here, at this time, on Earth. Research by common folk (like me and my peeps), is completely removed from their pages. It is eradicated, disallowed, if not "peer published" or collegiately farted out.

In short:

Wikipedia = COVER STORY
-------------------------------------------
SECRET = LEVEL ONE behind the cover story
TOP SECRET = LEVEL TWO behind the cover story
ABOVE TOP SECRET = Where Byrd send us back to Wikipedia.


...Now as to your points:

Originally posted by Byrd
Actually, Ahkenaten did not promote a spherical Earth, and the Aten is always (before and since) depicted as a sphere (flattened.)

I didn't say he promoted a spherical Earth, nor did I say that he believed in it, what I am saying is that one sphere recommends another. You have said that the Aten is always depicted as "flat". I am assuming you are able to grasp the difference, and if not, grab a chisel and try to duplicate the curvature below. ...If Akhenaten had been the moronic dope your facts describe him as, then he would not have curved the Aten as shown below, he would have made it flat.


[NOTE: I had to delete a bunch of JFK pictures I had uploaded cause the "ATS Store" won't let me buy more space and this graphic was 128k... Sorry Jack but I am sure this counts as a good reason, lol]

...Curvature if the Sun recommends curvature of the Earth, is what I am saying.

Do you understand the concept of truth which is veiled? Because if not, then what is the point in our continuing?

(But I will continue in the next post...)

[edit on 6-11-2008 by smallpeeps]