Obama's New Attack on Those Who Don't Want Higher Taxes: ‘Selfishness’

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

Not sure, coming from a guy like you who can't understand basic tax policy.

maintal is a troll. even if he understands something you are saying he will probably go against it for the sake of arguement.

guys like this have no real friends so they waste their time flamming the internets.

Originally posted by azzllin

Yup selfish and greed go together in this one, your money will be no good in a world full of anarchy and death, you claim patriotism then pay your bloody way, some people cant help being poor, it matters not, they are not the ones complaining here, if it was up to me I know where id like to shove your money.

I'm not a Christian, but didn't someone once say the meek shall inherit the Earth?

And you Sir/Madam are a better than fine example of meek?

If you could, so meekly, shove my money where you wanted to, at least two things....

1. I'd know where it's going

2. I'd know that it's being put to better use than the Democrats, who brought you the Freddie and Fannie debacle among others, would be able to put it to.

I think it's pretty silly, and indefensible for someone like Obama (who can't do anything by the way without congressional backing) to call people who pay taxes, anything related to selfish, stingy, etc. When only 60% of the people are the one's who are paying ALL taxes to begin with.

People like Obama don't have to be accused of being a Socialist or Communist or any kind of "ist"... He and others like him are sitting back and letting folks like you and me create our own class warfare and he's not bothered while we sow hate and discontent with each other.




[edit on 2-11-2008 by sigung86]

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

Not sure, coming from a guy like you who can't understand basic tax policy.

Not sure about what sublime? Ill tell you what I am sure of. I am sure you and i have NEVER had a dialogue about TAXES. Not hikes, breaks or raises in any conversation. I don't have to talk to you about taxes because you seem to be winning an argument with me on the subject already without me ever having to participate and THAT is why I have no interest in discussing it with someone who is so desperate to impress me with his latest tax epiphany he experienced while attending his latest H&R BLOCK tax seminar, that he must manifest some hallucination where someone (me) is actually making statements I never made but not just THAT! NOOO you then have to insult those mistakes I have made in the conversation that NEVER HAPPENED.

You question my TAX knowledge?? Sublime, you have no idea what i know or don't know because for the fifth TIME ,, I NEVER TOLD YOU A DAMN THING!


[edit on 2-11-2008 by MAINTAL]

reply to post by MAINTAL


So, you are not the one who keeps claiming that Obama is changing his tax policy?

Originally posted by nyk537
That's right. Obama thinks keeping your hard earned money is "selfish". Read the full article for a little more of his comments regarding governments apparent need to provide for us.

I have a question for you...first though read the bolds I placed in the following article on John McCains statments.

Obama brushes aside GOP criticism of his tax plans

The Obama campaign e-mailed an excerpt from a McCain statement on the Bush tax cuts in 2001 in which McCain said, "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle class Americans who most need tax relief."The Democratic e-mail also cited a McCain statement from the 2000 campaign that "I really believe, that when you are -- reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more."
AP News

Now I ask you, how much hypocrisy is TOO MUCH hypocrisy for the McCain camp and it's supporters?

Thanks,

- Lee

reply to post by lee anoma


I think that what a lot of people object to is the whole definition of rich and how some people (Obama and Biden and other people campaigning for them) seem to have a problem remembering exactly what the level that constitutes rich actually is.

I will readily admit that in some areas, $120,000.00 to $250,000.00 is plenty of money for a single person or a family to live comfortably on. In other places, it is not.

Another problem I think people have is the whole "selfish" and "unpatriotic" comments in regards to taxes. If someone uses words like that in regards to people not wanting to pay more in taxes, it isn't going to go over all that well. It is insulting.

Most people are willing to give money to private charities that are set up to help those that help themselves. I don't make a lot of money, but I dontate to charities either with money or food or clothing or toys. I know that, for the most part, what I give will go to people that actually need it. The government hasn't shown that it does good things all the time with our tax dollars.

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

So, you are not the one who keeps claiming that Obama is changing his tax policy?

Care to show me any post I made about him changing his policy?

All I did was prove to elitegamer that someone had said the numbers have changed. The video if you cared to watch it was OBAMA saying that, and I QUOTE "anyone making UNDER $250,000 dollars would not see their taxes raised." Then the next video was Obama's commercial saying and I quote "Anyone making under $200,000 would not see their taxes raised"

Those are his words not mine and that's what he said verbatim.

This topic is about Obama calling us selfish for not wanting to pay more in taxes. This is a guy who tried to slip past us an earmark for 20% of the bailout, was instrumental in the negligent way freddie and fannie were conducting business and a myriad of other unsavory acts and deceptions. I find it very hard to have to listen to someone like Obama telling ANY American Tax Payer they are selfish when we just loaned all those same banks 750 Billion Dollars and they have already taken their "bonus" money out of that package, not to mention fancy expensive trips and other perks. That is what I am incensed about and I don't see how anyone can blame me in light of the money we just gave the Government.

But we have Barry Obama telling us we are selfish? What a jerk he is

reply to post by skeptic1



Well admittedly I only read the first few pages but not unlike the OP's statement I quoted most people had a problem with Obamas policy itself and not that he changed his mind on what exactly constitutes wealth, or how insulting his description of those opposing his idea as being selfish. Most of what I read from McCain and his supporters is that Obama wants to tax..well all of us excessively...and/or tax the rich in order to spread the wealth. That is usually followed by accusations of socialism/marxism which also can be found in this thread. I find that somewhat hypocritical when McCain has voted based on that same reasoning Obama gave for his tax plan.

Regarding what you mentioned though about the Obama camp and their shifting ideas on what they believe is the level at which one is considered rich, according to these statements pulled from Obama's website they seem to say quite clearly what they believe constitutes a "wealthy" American:

- Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase

- Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. BarackObama.com

Sure it's relative, but I think that is close enough to what I would consider wealthy as well.

If some are insulted by his comments regarding those that oppose his plan as being selfish, they have a right to be of course. I can understand that and I can see how that could be insulting.

My issue is not with the insults though, but with the idea that Obamas approach to taxes is one McCain has also shared and voted for, yet now vehemently condemns. Whether people that oppose Obamas plans are selfish or not, McCain ends up looking like a hypocrite, which is worse than being selfish in my opinion. For me to believe him now would be an insult to my intelligence. If Obama is a socialist then so is McCain. Well, he used to be anyway.

I suspect though that McCain truly feels the way he said he did about taxes when he voted against the Bush cuts but is now trying to use every possible scare tactic (including the "Red" one) and angle to get elected.

There was a time I told many...including my conservative brother deep in the heart of Texas...that I would vote for him should he ever run for President.

His backtracking and shifting has ruled that option out for me entirely. He seems to be pretending to be an entirely different McCain just to get into office and I don't like that at all.

- Lee

reply to post by Witness2008


in order to get it back we will have to pay in the first place.now who here thinks they'll get back 100% of what they're taxed?obama will take it from us in higher prices paid to those who will have to charge more,in order to pay the tax. and then theres the burden of bigger government to handle the redistribution.
the balloon just gets bigger and bigger

Originally posted by tdubz
i would do neither. is it my responsibility to support someone elses kids?


lets for example look at child support. child support orders the mother or father to pay the other parent support to help take care of the kids. Instead of making the other parent pay support for the kid, should we make all of america pay for it?

except of course, many of the marriages were killed because of the stress of lack of finances, and well...let's be clear, a family that is struggling to support one household doesn't stand a chance in hades of holding down two households.....

Originally posted by switching yard
Most, if not all, of the new government agencies ushered in by Bush and his neocon country club cronies can be completely shut down, thus saving the USA enough billions to help the poor and needy.

Wow, someone with a little common sense. They like to call Obama and the democrats in general socialists when in fact the republicans under Bush made a complete mockery of conservatism. How many new agencies have been started, how much additional money is going to unnecessary governement beuracracy, how much has been spent to finance the afghani and iraq invasions, how much has been collected by the military industrial elite as a result of the so called restructuring process, etc................................??????????

I am all for mild socialism and I am not talking about russian communism which was really a dictatorship, I am talking about canadian and european style which is really capitalism with government involvement and supervision in critical infrastracture and services.

In reality we already have some pseudo-socialistic policies in america but they are not functioning efficiently. I keep hearing republicans state "do away with welfare, social security, medicare/medicaid, public schooling, public transportation or any other public service" because they don't work. I think this typifies conservative stupidy. Instead of fixing what is broke they prefer trashing it. Sure go ahead and make everything private so corporations and shareholders rake in the dough while 20-30 percent of the citizens get dicked. Then we will officially have two class of citizens again; those that have everything and those that barely exist.

Most republicans are selfish and blind. They live in a glass hut on rodeo drive and think the world is rosey. Give me a break!

reply to post by lee anoma


All the candidates lie their ass off to get elected and once they get elected they sit back in their reclinning chair and say boy we really....fill in the blank...them nice.

Who are we kidding? Both parties are massively financed by the top 500 multi-nationals which buys them influence and power. The president has next to zero power when it comes to fighting corruption and passing restrictive legislation. They can say anything they want but who will hold them accountable when they mess up? For example President Bush should have been impeached and convicted years ago for forging evidence and manipulating intelligence in favor of the Iraqi invasion but no one had the courage to follow through. Dennis Kucinoch might be an exception.

In my book both parties are corrupt to the bone. I used to respect democrats but not anymore. They have earned my contempt and are different to republicans only in theory. Theory means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unless you do half of what you say.

I hope Obama is different but I am not holding my breath.

[edit on 2-11-2008 by EarthCitizen07]

reply to post by MAINTAL


That would be changing his tax policy, and you have said it multiple times on multiple threads. SOMEHOW you missed the comments that EVERYONE has made towards your incorrect analysis.

He has never changed ANY numbers.

All of our politicians lined their pockets for years (Dems and Repubs) and now are paralyzed. Our Gov can't get much done anymore because everything from Health Insurance lobbyists, to Oil Lobbyists, to Pharmaceutical lobbyists really run the show. Our political system is paralyzed and no Dem or Repub can fix it.

I don't worry about it. I know that this country is on it's last legs for so many reasons and I'm certainly not going to fight it. Our politicians have looted our country and the recent Wall Street crash is only the beginning..Government will take more and more control of the people as every crumbling empire has throughout history.

I don't mind paying more money to help our country. This is what it's about, country first. When things get uglier and the people who are against a tax increase to help the disappearing middle class start to lose their jobs, home, etc and struggle to feed their kids (higher education will become a thing of the past), I think that their stance will soften. Wait til hyperinflation hits and the value of the dollar plummets. There is no greater equalizer that poverty. If we don't help the middle class, financially, it will certainly spell the end of the US.

TAXES?!?!?!?!? taxes to who my friend? a foreign entity known as the federal reserve and the international banking constortiums??????

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!! THINK FOR YOURSELVES, if there was ever a time where taxation without representation was more prevalent it is right now!!

It is so funny. If you look at Obama and Bidens tax returns, you can see they do not give very much to charity. I wonder who the selfish ones are. I would like choose where I give my money and not have it taken from me.

reply to post by midwestmama


Thank you. Star for you.

I am all for everyone being able to be successful in this country....as long as they work for it, as long as they better themselves to get it.

We are owed nothing from our government. And, none of us are entitled to anything from our government.

Two things that bothers me are this: why do all of you who are ok with the Obama tax plan really think it is going to happen? I mean, he is a politician after all. And, with the economic environment the way it is now, do any of you really think that it will only be the top 5% that gets a tax increase? That is nowhere near realistic.

reply to post by skeptic1


kind like me asking yous.....
considering the current financial state of this country, why do you think you should immune to an tax increase??

why should anyone not expect the favorite parts of the budget to be slashed along with the rest?? be it defense, welfare, housing, student loans, healthcare, ect....

why would anyone in their right mind believe anything either of these candidates are saying, with their promises to cut taxes for this group or that, and their promises to increase spending for that program or this one....

they aren't telling the truth to the american people....
here is the basic, undeniable truth....
we owe so much money now, have dug ourselves into such a massive hole...that even if we cut the budget to it's barebones, we will still have to increase the taxes....
we have no intention of cutting the budget, hey we might decide to spend more, so expect some lovely, painful tax increases, regardless of who or what you are!

Read my signature.......
OK so I'm selfish for feeling that it's my right to keep what my husband and I work our tails off for ourselves and our children, fine. I don't think I should have to pay MORE than we already do to support illegals and lazy so and so's who have an undeserved sense of entitlement....I breathe therefore I deserve. Nope, he doesn't have my vote and never did.

reply to post by dawnstar


I agree with you to a point. I am willing to suffer through a tax increase in order to pay down the debt and to fund the military.

With the way things are now, we are ALL going to have to pay more taxes.

I have a BIG problem with getting a tax increase to support the people who are not willing to help themselves...those who feel entitled to government assistance.

I give to private charities in order for them to help those who CANNOT help themselves.

BTW, I am not rich. Under Obama's alleged tax plan, I would get a $32 tax break. Big whoop....some middle class tax cut. I'd get one tank full of gas a year.

[edit on 11/2/2008 by skeptic1]