Alleged Light Pole Damage To Taxi - Possible? Impossible?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Just another picture Craig took of the interior of the Cab:

Make sure to realize the above image was taken in 2008, almost 7 years after the attack.

This image that Lloyde's wife took of the passenger seat is from when they got the cab out of impound on 9/12/2001:



Notice how while the seat does appear to be off the hinge it pushed as far back as shown in the 2008 image.

It's clear that over years the seat has fallen back further than the damage they initially fabricated on 9/11.

Ok CIT Ill bite, How exactly do you think that they fabricated this situation with Loyd and his pole?

Its one thing to leave a bunch a poles already busted on the ground or somehow put explosive charges on them before hand. How exactly do you fabricate the pictured evidence at 930 in the morning on rt 27? Especially things like the glass and debris all of the road, damage to the car, witnesses(like Loyd, why involve Loyd anyways?) plus all the wits in the morning rush 27 had to be completely packed.

You gotta understand all the roads in the entire area from out past Manassas down to Fredricksburg up Gaithersburgs covering all of DC, literally main roads and highways(66,95,495beltway,395,295) are like parking lots. A trip to dc from say Dulles airport to DC with no traffic might take 15 mins but in the morning it might take two hours, if your lucky, my point is from say 6am till 10am traffic is terrible. It has been declared the worst in the united states next to LA.

Which is a major problem for any fabrication to be done of the magnitude of this Loyd thing. At least I cannot think how it would even be pulled off and I have given a thought.

Maybe you can make one of your animations showing it. At the very least let me understand how you think it would be done.

B/c I have a feeling your gonna say Loyd was involved Ill just ask now, When did they decide to involve Loyd ? At the scene, beforehand?

Originally posted by baffledon911
You gotta understand all the roads in the entire area ... are like parking lots.

Which is a major problem for any fabrication to be done of the magnitude of this Loyd thing.

So there should have been a parking lot FULL of people who saw the light pole smash into Lloyde's taxi, right?

Of the numerous witnesses who MUST have seen this happen can you please supply the names of those who verified Lloyde's story and where they were in relation to Lloyde's taxi when the light pole allegedly smashed into his windscreen.

The only person who Lloyde mentions helping him, is the silent stranger...

Strange...?

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
/albums/a327/lytetrip/Lloyd/passengerseat.jpg[/IMG]


It's clear that over years the seat has fallen back further than the damage they initially fabricated on 9/11.

Or, that Lloyde may have tried to prop the seat back up? Who knows? The point is, the United States in their massive conspiracy would NOT choose an elderly cab driver as a plant to their sinister activity.

Craig, your fantasy is over.

I am sure you are keeping tabs at Jref where Turbofan was totally humiliated. Don't pretend that you don't know who I am talking about.

Originally posted by baffledon911
Ok CIT Ill bite, How exactly do you think that they fabricated this situation with Loyd and his pole?

Its one thing to leave a bunch a poles already busted on the ground or somehow put explosive charges on them before hand. How exactly do you fabricate the pictured evidence at 930 in the morning on rt 27? Especially things like the glass and debris all of the road, damage to the car, witnesses(like Loyd, why involve Loyd anyways?) plus all the wits in the morning rush 27 had to be completely packed.

You gotta understand all the roads in the entire area from out past Manassas down to Fredricksburg up Gaithersburgs covering all of DC, literally main roads and highways(66,95,495beltway,395,295) are like parking lots. A trip to dc from say Dulles airport to DC with no traffic might take 15 mins but in the morning it might take two hours, if your lucky, my point is from say 6am till 10am traffic is terrible. It has been declared the worst in the united states next to LA.

Which is a major problem for any fabrication to be done of the magnitude of this Loyd thing. At least I cannot think how it would even be pulled off and I have given a thought.

Maybe you can make one of your animations showing it. At the very least let me understand how you think it would be done.

B/c I have a feeling your gonna say Loyd was involved Ill just ask now, When did they decide to involve Loyd ? At the scene, beforehand?

You haven't thought very long about it have you? pResident Dubya was there on 9-10 and due back on 9-11 at noon. The Secret Service had the entire area under total security during that time. They could do anything they wanted and they could allow the FBI to help if they so wished. We know the FBI was already there staged to move because they grabbed all the videos within minutes.

There is not one single witness in existence who saw the light pole hit the taxi, nor saw the light pole through the windshield, nor saw two men pull the light pole out of the windshield. There is not one photo in existence showing a light pole through the windshield. In fact the first photos of the taxi we have were taken by Marine photographer Jason Ingersoll within minutes after the first explosion, as he ran down the hill from the Naval Annex, before the fire trucks got there at 9:41, and there is no light pole sticking out of the windshield 22 feet past the bumper. Check them out yourself and show us the light pole through the windshield.

High resolution images - no 33 foot long light pole sticking out of a windshield and no fire trucks at the fires yet

03876 There is the taxi - anybody see a pole sticking out over the guardrail? Anywhere?
03877 Anybody see the pole? Should be in the middle of the hood and sticking past the guard rail

Did Lloyde hop out of his taxi, flag down the mystery stranger, and pull the pole out and lay it down over on the road in less than three minutes? Of course not. There never was a light pole through the windshield.

Originally posted by SPreston
Did Lloyde hop out of his taxi, flag down the mystery stranger, and pull the pole out and lay it down over on the road in less than three minutes? Of course not. There never was a light pole through the windshield.

You forgot to add that not only did they do it in a few minutes, they did it with such precision that they never left a scratch on the car's bonnet or windscreen frame...

Maybe we should be checking the video evidence for a man in a red cape flying away from the scene with a large S on his chest...

[edit on 8-11-2008 by tezzajw]

posted by baffledon911
Ok CIT Ill bite, How exactly do you think that they fabricated this situation with Loyd and his pole?

Its one thing to leave a bunch a poles already busted on the ground or somehow put explosive charges on them before hand. How exactly do you fabricate the pictured evidence at 930 in the morning on rt 27? Especially things like the glass and debris all of the road, damage to the car, witnesses(like Loyd, why involve Loyd anyways?) plus all the wits in the morning rush 27 had to be completely packed.

It is really simple if you think about it.

1. At some time beforehand have the 5 poles removed. If somebody notices they are gone, who cares? VDOT is always maintaining and taking down and putting up light poles. Other states do it too.

2. Prefab the Lloyde England/Taxi Scenario light poles beforehand and snip the ends with a jaws of life mechanical pincer. Cut the bases with a torch so they look like they broke off clean and straight. (Oooops) Break a lamp head and place the glass and broken parts for pole #1 in bags. Bend the #1 pole and place all the poles on a flatbed.

3. In the early morning 9-11 darkness, the Secret Service and FBI and their pole workers take the flat bed out and stage the poles and their broken pieces. Maybe cover them with a green tarp so they are mostly invisible.

4. The important center stage #1 pole goes behind the HOV lane wall where it would be hard to see. Put the bags of glass and #1 pieces in the white Saturn or Cherokee and wait for the script to begin.

5. Somebody drives the taxi up to its staging location with a piece of clear glass covering the broken windshield. Get Lloyde there ready for his big act.

6. The decoy aircraft flies over the Naval Annex and the explosion goes off at the Pentagon wall. While everyone is looking at the Pentagon in horror, quickly drag the #1 pole across the road, (if you drag the pole on the road, people on the north bound can't see it past and below the wall - the south bound is blocked for a few minutes to get everything ready and that traffic is routed around Columbia Pike) throw the clear glass in the Saturn trunk, dump the broken glass and parts on the road in their spots, and tell Lloyde to go stand behind his taxi at parade rest. Make sure all the pieces of the #1 light pole are in a perfect line (Oooops) like it fell over there even though the big pole was supposed to be through the windshield down the road first. Somebody drags the tarps off the other poles or maybe they didn't bother to hide them; who cares if anybody saw a few dumb poles on the ground in the morning?



7. Jason Ingersoll runs down the hill snapping photos and gets a couple of good ones (Oooops) showing no 33 foot long pole through the windshield. But there is no way to verify the time of Ingersoll's photos. So they could be much later giving Lloyde much more time to remove the pole.



8. EXCEPT: The Reagan National Fire Trucks just happened to be a half mile down the road and they show up uninvited at 9:41; (Oooops) only four minutes after the official impact. Yep, their official records claim they were there at 9:41 and Jason Ingersoll's photos of the taxi show the fires in the background and no fire trucks yet. Does anybody see why the Reagan National fire crews were not welcome at the Pentagon?

9. Therefore poor old Lloyde has less than 3 minutes to get the pole out of the windshield without scratching the hood. Not bloody likely is it?

Reagan National Arff Team, First Responder Fire Fighting Pentagon




[edit on 11/9/08 by SPreston]

reply to post by SPreston

SPreston, you sure that you weren't in on the planning team meetings? You could be a closet-spook with that detailed plan all ready to go.

Far out, dude - maybe you found their script for the day?

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous Lloyde's story is...

Ok, OCT Believers - please help me Believe this story, if you can:
How many witnesses (real, living, verifiable people) with both first and second names are on record to support Lloyde's story? How many of them actually saw the light pole in the car's windscreen, during the three minute window that Lloyde had before it was removed???

If all that we have is Lloyde's testimony, then it's really looking shaky, isn't it...

I still think that someone should buy his car. There has to be a cashed-up truther who can buy his car? Maybe a cashed-up believer will want to buy it, so they can destroy the incriminating evidence???

[edit on 9-11-2008 by tezzajw]

Those close ups of a few messages are very clear. To start off, No, I do not see a pole sticking out of any car, i do not see his car either. You will not see lloyds car in those 2 pics above. I believe thats the intersection at pike, i am not 100% certain of this. If that is, what the hell are all those light poles still standing for? Am I looking at poles 4 and 5? Was it not one of CIT's witnesses ( white cop ) stating that the poles from the Pike overpass were NOT knocked down, it was further north. It all made sense when you jumped all over Lloyd like Vic Mckey into admitting he was in front of the brick faced bridge. Thru GoogleEarth and Streetlevel views, i was able to see exactly where Lloyd says he was...Lloyd was right when he said " No, I was never there, i know i wasn't , i was further north down the road" This would make TOTAL sense that some of the pics have been forged in some way. Lloyd was almost to the left of the Heliport, plane came by, and this is using your theory of the North side trail , hit some poles, end of story, right? This supports your theory totally. LLoyd is not mistaking his location, the photo of him in front of that brick facia brige has been doctored in my opinion.
Sarasota is 5 miles from here. It was on the news about the Prez being at Booker in Sarasota..Prez was staying at one of the most expensive resports out on Longboat Key. When I had seen the news that the Prez was leaving the airport and heading out , I went outside.. I waited, and waited, and waited, then i heard this freaking super loud roar. The fuselage went right over my apt. Now, this is seven years ago. I remember blue, i thought i seen a symbol on the tail, maybe had some silver? My point being, seeing air force one was quite nice but i couldn't tell you the exact colors, or if i did see a symbol or not..

Thanks!
Bud316

Originally posted by bud316
Those close ups of a few messages are very clear. To start off, No, I do not see a pole sticking out of any car, i do not see his car either. You will not see lloyds car in those 2 pics above. I believe thats the intersection at pike, i am not 100% certain of this. If that is, what the hell are all those light poles still standing for? Am I looking at poles 4 and 5? Was it not one of CIT's witnesses ( white cop ) stating that the poles from the Pike overpass were NOT knocked down, it was further north. It all made sense when you jumped all over Lloyd like Vic Mckey into admitting he was in front of the brick faced bridge. Thru GoogleEarth and Streetlevel views, i was able to see exactly where Lloyd says he was...Lloyd was right when he said " No, I was never there, i know i wasn't , i was further north down the road" This would make TOTAL sense that some of the pics have been forged in some way. Lloyd was almost to the left of the Heliport, plane came by, and this is using your theory of the North side trail , hit some poles, end of story, right? This supports your theory totally. LLoyd is not mistaking his location, the photo of him in front of that brick facia brige has been doctored in my opinion.

Seriously? You cannot see the taxi? Did you forget to take your official DENIER blindfold off? It is sitting right there on the Hwy 27 overpass bridge over Columbia Pike; right exactly where the Official Flight 77 fairy tale requires it to be. The five light poles are not standing; but successfully staged on the ground.

Doctored photos? These are photos from a Department of Defense website. Why would they doctor the photos in a way to hurt their own official story? Forged photos? Forged so an old man cannot change his story? But this has been the official story since day one, and now YOU and Lloyde want to change it. Why? Are you sore losers?


03876 There is the taxi - anybody see a pole sticking out over the guardrail? Anywhere?


03877 Anybody see the pole? Should be in the middle of the hood and sticking past the guard rail

Here is another view of the taxi sitting there next to the Hwy 27 overpass over Columbia pike long after the roof was blown. See it's sitting in the same official spot. But Lloyde wanted to move it north to where the aircraft really was; but it was too late. This spot here is OFFICIAL.



Another view of the taxi after the Pentagon roof was blown


Original photo available for past seven years - do you think Geoff Metcalf forged it?

All the light poles - yep there is that same bridge just past the #1 light pole

reply to post by SPreston

Look, I have no blindfold on, and unlike yourself, i'm not picking dots out of a picture and saying exactly what they are. Why in some pics of Lloyds car there is traffic everywhere and some with no traffic what so ever? Why do you flip out when i mention that someone may have forged a picture when you are presenting and episode of the 3 stooges who are running around in the early am with broken, bent poles, broken glass, a poor black man with a pole stuck thru his window with a fabricated story to tell.. The second and third pic in your message above, where is the rock faced bridge ? CIT suggests the plane came from NORTH of Citgo, official has it heading from the south direction. The last CIT video i had seen i i believe the two police officers who choose teh SAME PATH.. Nice job at avoiding 95% of the proof that i have laid out above.. Its just what i figured, you have nothing, just repeating the SAME statements over and over.. If there is a conspiracy, if there are lies being told, I indeed hope together we will find it.. If we all think the same way, 25 years from now we will still be on here asking the same questions. We need a new box to think outside of..

Later,
Bud316

posted by bud316
Look, I have no blindfold on, and unlike yourself, i'm not picking dots out of a picture and saying exactly what they are. Why in some pics of Lloyds car there is traffic everywhere and some with no traffic what so ever? Why do you flip out when i mention that someone may have forged a picture when you are presenting and episode of the 3 stooges who are running around in the early am with broken, bent poles, broken glass, a poor black man with a pole stuck thru his window with a fabricated story to tell..

posted by bud316
To start off, No, I do not see a pole sticking out of any car, i do not see his car either. You will not see lloyds car in those 2 pics above.

I showed you where his car was in three photos. Do you see it now?




Did you see a 30+ foot long pole sticking out over the hood? No? The taxi is sitting crossways partially into the outside exit lane which is 18 feet wide. Since the pole was supposed to be sticking out 22 feet past the hood, then it should be past or hitting the guardrail. It is not visible at all. The hole is in the center of the windshield and the small end is supposed to be in the back seat. Lloyde indicated that the rest of the pole stuck out over the center of the hood in mid-air.



These two photos were taken within three minutes after Jason Ingersoll at the Naval Annex heard the explosion at the Pentagon. The Marine photographer grabbed a camera and ran down the hill snapping photos on the way. These two photos show no fire trucks at the fires yet, and the taxi sitting with no light pole through the windshield.

posted by bud316
The second and third pic in your message above, where is the rock faced bridge ?

The photographers are using zoom lens and it is a matter of perspective.



Do you see how short and stubby the 30+ foot long pole looks? It is the same as the other pictures of the pole. The zoom lens does that. Do you see the tree directly behind the rock faced bridge wall? Do you see how close the rock faced wall looks to the taxi? Now look at the next photo crop from the opposite direction.



Do you see the taxi? It is sitting in the same spot. Do you see the tree to the left? The rock faced bridge wall is behind that tree. It is the same tree as in the first photo. Because of the angle and the perspective, the taxi seems much further away from the bridge.

posted by bud316
Why in some pics of Lloyds car there is traffic everywhere and some with no traffic what so ever?

Because the Secret Service which had total control of that area for two days was routing traffic around the area and periodically down Hwy 27 past the taxi. This was a psyops mission. It was designed to be totally confusing. But they also wanted lots of witnesses to the ILLUSION of an aircraft knocking a light pole into an elderly black man's taxi. They almost got away with it.

Sorry if I reacted too harshly, but you were acting just like the SHILLS and PSEUDO (phoney) SKEPTICS we have been fighting for years. A lot of this information was dug out years ago, and we are rehashing it over and over with new people. Much of this is availabe at our forums.

You are right and i am sorry for jumping in the pool so late. I have been reading ATS since 2002 and this one subject with Llyod, CIT, Pentagon was totally missed by me. I have been researching the old threads to bring myself up to speed. It just seems that the concerns from a few years ago about the validity of certan things are still the same points being argued. CIT needs to do one video, maybe 30-45 minutes long laying out what their beliefs are in this matter. Explain the planes ( the different ones described on camera witness's ) theory you have.. There are 2 different flight paths, is it possible that BOTH witnesses are correct when they say it was to the South of Citgo when some say it was to the North?

Thank you,
Bud316

posted by bud316
You are right and i am sorry for jumping in the pool so late. I have been reading ATS since 2002 and this one subject with Llyod, CIT, Pentagon was totally missed by me. I have been researching the old threads to bring myself up to speed. It just seems that the concerns from a few years ago about the validity of certan things are still the same points being argued. CIT needs to do one video, maybe 30-45 minutes long laying out what their beliefs are in this matter. Explain the planes ( the different ones described on camera witness's ) theory you have.. There are 2 different flight paths, is it possible that BOTH witnesses are correct when they say it was to the South of Citgo when some say it was to the North?

We are happy to gain your assistance at achieving justice for the 3000 innocent victims of 9-11. Actually all Americans and all people affected by 9-11 are victims of the 9-11 perps. But we insist that you prepare yourself properly by learning all of CIT's and P4-9/11-T research, and many other good researchers too. There are thousands. Both our partner teams have many videos which detail exactly what you are looking for. (See U2U)

Question: What type of paint would be used on an American Airlines wing? Given that they are mostly silver, would they even use paint?

Were the light poles ever forensically tested to determine if there were minor traces of paint at the point of alleged impact with the alleged AA77's wing?

I don't know the answers, which is why I am asking.

reply to post by SPreston


Spreston , bottom line, the reason the feds were there so quick is very simple...The feds are everywhere throughout the whole area out there. They would of been able to communicate with radios, and move thru traffic with sirens. So the fact that the videos of area buildings were confiscated so quickly means nothing to me.

I thought I heard in that video that you guys are from Arlington, if this is the case it even makes me think more that you guys are trying to bend the truth your way whenever possible b/c anyone who has lived in any of the surrounding MD NoVA DC area knows that it is literally packed with every possible federal agent you can imagine.

On top of that CIT cant even bring himself to lay a theory out on the table of how it was done "your way" and Spreston do you really believe that they would go through all the trouble of pre-fabricating busted light poles, bags of glass, the damage to the Lincoln, the chunks of dirt/rocks/debris that is seen on the pavement, and last but not least ...Loyd.

Seriously, ...seriously. Come on seriously this is almost as insane as the no plane theory at the towers. Not to mention it does NOT match the degree of difficulty that went into this operation. To include some jack off cab driver and all the people it would of taken JUST to complete this small minute area of the operation which really held little to no meaning what so ever. So what the poles were knocked down? Include what five guys and Loyd to pull off this pole operation, who now all will know that the Pentagon attack and possibly the whole 9/11 operation was conducted by us.

Sorry I don't buy it, and I'm by no means a debunker but this is total insanity. There are so many things that are really wrong with 9/11, that really deserve to be answered that trying to focus on this is almost diversionary in nature or maybe even disinformation.

Originally posted by baffledon911
reply to post by SPreston

 

Spreston , bottom line, the reason the feds were there so quick is very simple...The feds are everywhere throughout the whole area out there. They would of been able to communicate with radios, and move thru traffic with sirens. So the fact that the videos of area buildings were confiscated so quickly means nothing to me.

I thought I heard in that video that you guys are from Arlington, if this is the case it even makes me think more that you guys are trying to bend the truth

On top of that CIT cant even bring himself to lay a theory out on the table of how it was done "your way" and Spreston do you really believe that they would go through all the trouble of pre-fabricating busted light poles, bags of glass, the damage to the Lincoln, the chunks of dirt/rocks/debris that is seen on the pavement, and last but not least ...Loyd.

Seriously, ...seriously. Come on seriously this is almost as insane as the no plane theory at the towers. Not to mention it does NOT match the degree of difficulty that went into this operation. To include some jack off cab driver and all the people it would of taken JUST to complete this small minute area of the operation which really held little to no meaning what so ever. So what the poles were knocked down? Include what five guys and Loyd to pull off this pole operation, who now all will know that the Pentagon attack and possibly the whole 9/11 operation was conducted by us.

Sorry I don't buy it, and I'm by no means a debunker but this is total insanity. There are so many things that are really wrong with 9/11, that really deserve to be answered that trying to focus on this is almost diversionary in nature or maybe even disinformation.

BS!

EVERY ANGLE AND ASPECT OF THIS CONSPIRACY SHOULD BE ANALYZED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN NO MATTER HOW MINUTE IT MIGHT SEEM.

IT SHOWS A PATTERN

so to you it might seem like a waste to focus on or INSANITY, but whats insane is anyone that wants to nit-pick certain areas and assert its a waste of time to ADD into the SUM.

you say:
"So the fact that the videos of area buildings were confiscated so quickly means nothing to me."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW?

thats PROOF enough to me you have no real interest in the TRUTH when anyone with a brain can see why that IS a KEY element in understanding the immensity and complexity of this conspiracy.

People like yourself would love to see tons of so-called IRRELEVANT evidence and questions IGNORED because it helps promote and maintain the LIE which FULL CONTEXT AND DETAILS DESTROY.

and your accusations of bending the truth are idiotic when any truly objective person who has done a true FULL investigation, can see they've presented a factually sound scholarly argument with supporting evidence thats fair and objective.

furthermore, who knows ALL the lengths the perpetrators ACTUALLY WENT TO... many times, ALL of the "lengths" can't be PROVEN in PERFECT CLEAR ways on the surface. But the DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS... but in this conspiracy, there's CLEAR BLATANT EVIDENCE AND FLAWS THAT DESTROY THE OFFICIAL STORY OVER AND OVER AND OVER. We really dont need the question about poles and the taxi etc because there's far more CLEAR AND OBVIOUS FACTUAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE not to mention basic common sense thats far more INCRIMINATING proving 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB.

and as far as the NO PLANE theory... why is that INSANE? Especially as it pertains to the first tower.

Based upon the EVIDENCE, there's more than enough to show its far from INSANE... in fact, there's more evidence for the no plane theory, than against it. Perhaps you haven't done enough research yet. I'd love to see your COUNTER argument to the SEPTEMBER CLUES doc which to me is one of the best analysis and argument in support.

Oh and has anyone asked lloyde about david ickes book on the seat (appearing mysteriously AFTER he got the car back) or whether he's read it and was his?

Haven't you watched CIT's latest interview with Lloyd? He explains that he was reading the book at the time, and even starts saying some very suspicious things after CIT brings up the book and conspiracies.

reply to post by matrix911


So i take it by that comment you believe that.....

On the morning of sept 11 2001 one crew of men set out before the attacks with their flat bed trucks loaded up with five dummy poles broken into pieces. Big bags of glass and debris. Went right outside of the pentagon (with some sort of crane) removed all the undamaged light poles. Then dropped all the broken ones. Took Loyds Lincoln and created the unmistakable damage of some kind of blunt trama damage to the dash which closely resembles the supposed damage of a 300lb pole smashing his window. Then wait till "the event" and pre positioned loyd so he could jump onto the highway and be at said location at the exact moment of "the event" and depend on Loyd to "represent" the story to all the feds/news/ect on scene of what happened.

Oh and for good measure lets throw a couple of conspiracy books in the car that way when someone comes along to investigate 7 years later it will "appear" strange.

By the way the sum of nothing is nothing. And you got nothing here IMHO.

Good going truthers you guys wonder why there are all these debunkers running around challenging your theories. Its because you guys will bite on anything ...First the no plane theory, then the nukes in the basement theory, then the missile hit the pentagon theory...

Instead, maybe, just maybe he is telling the truth to the best of his recollection.

Listen Id be willing to bet that the same people who are saying they believe this have never even been to the scene let alone the DC area. This scenario would involve so many people and would require so many people to look the other way that it is almost amusing, it basically preys on the people who know nothing about the DC area and how it operates.