Berg to file Emergency Ruling with Surpreme Court

reply to post by Mercenary2007
For what it's worth... +1 for providing the legislation. If I checked profiles everytime I had an intellectual beef w/ someone to see what else they'd posted there wouldn't be enough time in the day.

Can't fault me for that, dude.

Now... let's continue...

Originally posted by DYepes

Sorry Mercenary2007, but if anything you and the sources you support had any merit, Obama would not have gotten to this point. Why? Becuase there are hundreds of thousands of citizens that are our government who are in fact dedicated, honest citizens and employees.

It is the duty of those tasked to such things to carry out the procedures and paperwork for the agency to make sure ANYONE running for President is within the bounds of our written law of eligibility.

OMG I am already picturing your closet having a life size cut out of Obama you bought from spencers gifts hanging in between the one you have a McGyver and the Fonz with his thumb up saying aaaay.

Sorry Mercenary2007, but if anything you and the sources you support had any merit, Obama would not have gotten to this point. Why? Becuase there are hundreds of thousands of citizens that are our government who are in fact dedicated, honest citizens and employees.

I happen to think their are a lot more reasons to think Government has an abysmal record for being worthy of such lofty praises attaching adjectives like "efficient" "caring" "honest" "above corruption" "selfless" "dedicated" or even "intelligent" . Your blind obediance to the marxist senator from Illinois, proves just how "giddy" a person gets when under the influence and seduction of someone that can only be descibed as your "Obamanitrix" a phenomena that to date is a mystery. The media is infected with it, Obamanoids are the new Political Zombies over it and YOU sound like their poster child.

I remember when Chris Mathews attended an Obama Rally and said after word that he was so overcome with some titilating sensation that was running up and down his leg, he was so excited listening to the Grand Obama.

It is the duty of those tasked to such things

And they are ??

to carry out the procedures and paperwork for the agency to make sure ANYONE running for President is within the bounds of our written law of eligibility.

And that Agency is?

To ignore this is like saying you honestly believe thousands of Federal employees are in a conspiracy against America,

Actually you couldn't be more wrong or more naive.

It wouldn't take thousands although I veiw democrats as unknowing agents in a conspiracy for change. That change is the one we were told someone groomed from obscurity whose rise to fame will usher in Socialism to America without a drop of blood spilled. This issue regarding your assertions about the virtues of the dedicated throngs of those in Government that you assume are so beyond reproach nothing like this could have ever hapened is the very reason it HAS happened but you are blinded by Obamalism. You see it would only take ONE corrupt person in Government who has enough influence and power to deny the very validation that proves your point wrong and our point right.

Oh and by the way that one person in Government that could do that, is none other then Barack Obama himself

Originally posted by DYepes
I apologize, but anyway who continues to believe Obama is not a citizen is just keeping their head in the sand.

The Federal Government of the United States is not some slack jawed yokel. The citizens that work for it know how to track down any record anywhere in the world as it relates to the leadership of their nation. Obama does not have anything to prove, because there are thousands of citizens working in the Federal Government that would have had no problem identifying his past.

It is beyond me how these threads can continue to perpetuate.

Oh really? who are they? Name one person that has seen this mythical Vault BC that would answer the question as to his PLACE of Birth and The Doctor in charge being on that BC not just telling us one is on record and refusing to answer the real question.

I would accept any Judge seeing for himself and saying it is all legit that way. Or a copy of it like McCain did for us. So far all I have seen being done is that stuff you say amounts to a conspiracy and I say you're right.

Only differnce is, I am not so Gah Gah over Obama and still Jaded enough from the past eight years that my voters anger is not aimed at republicans but Politicians in general. With all the scandalous crap I have seen verified about Obama already,, I wouldn't put it past him

That change is the one we were told someone groomed from obscurity whose rise to fame will usher in Socialism to America without a drop of blood spilled.

This is the best way to usher in a new system, without a drop of blood spilled. I am sure you would prefer anarchy and war, but it just wont happen in this day and age. The current system is openly shown to be inefficient and merciless to the people that fund it , i.e. the citizen.

There are hundreds of agencies within our government system, surely even you do not know at least three dozen of them off the top of your head. What do you think they all do, yell at a screen and get angry at rumors? They work to keep our system running. They preserve the beuracracy that protects consistency and security to keep the order.

I know of a few departments where a Birth Ceritficate would have been required, The Social Security Administration as well as the DMV as a valid form of identification, being of the more commonly utilized by the people.

Well there are hosts of Security Agencies that would easily have access to this information with minimal security clearance required, such as the CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, Secret Service, Department of Justice maybe even upper levels of the DEA and ATF.

Every cleared agent of those security departments would have to be in on this "tin-foil" conspiracy as well. Surely you internet bloggers and idealists thinkers have more clearance, experience, and general knowledge and sense than they right? Surely all the ones who do not actually dedicate themselves to public service (outside of military service)know more and have more access to the REAL information than they right?

No doubt there are tons of members who are employed on the local level, but how many are actually under Federal employment (outside of military service)? No doubt nobody that is actually agreeing with silly htreads like this.

There are a slew of direct opponents of the party and just Obama himself, why do they not support this theory? They all know it has no merit.

reply to post by cogburn


your right i can't fault you for that, It just got under my skin for someone to say i haven't done the research, and was just regurgitating statements from Bergs site. to be honest anything i see on his site i verify that its legit and then form my own opinion on it.

Now given that Obama has won the election, that almost guarantees that the SCOTUS will hear the case, Berg now has standing to bring the lawsuit and can ask for relief.

all anyone wants is the truth, as voters we are entitled to the truth. and it would have been nice if Obama would have ended this before tonight now it will have to go to the courts.

man.. you really think anyone is actually going to hear this case...

wow, really, I am sorry. I must applaud you for keeping hope, but it is not going to happen.

Half the world has anticipated an Obama victory, I think that goes to show the disdain the world had for the previous administration and the party in power.

Cant wait till Jan 20th now.

Now that Obama is president elect it is up to the Democratic Majority Senate to vet him.

Does ANYONE think that his own party controlled Senate will NOT vet him???

SCOTUS will not review the case, I'll bet my entire personal worth (not unsubstantial) on that. Berg BLEW that option by presenting new evidence in the submission of the case to SCOTUS.

Give it up folks, it's over. Obama is president elect, he will be vetted by the Senate and will be inaugurated on Jan 20th.

Now, are you willing to support and defend the constitution even if you can't support and defend your elected president???

That is the only question left to ask.

Originally posted by redhatty


Now, are you willing to support and defend the constitution even if you can't support and defend your elected president???

That is the only question left to ask.

Kind of funny you say that.

Defending the Constitution when out of style lastgnight and those of us who were trying to defend it, asking for Obama's BC, Voting for McCain, trying to educate people that the redistribution of wealth will make the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness, a Government entitlement which means it is no longer unalienable, no longer a right. The fact that Obama was witholding on his backround where just about everything he has sealed. The whole thing reminded me of something BUSH would do,,

I'm pretty sure that the case could not and should not be heard by the courts at all. There is an ABSOLUTE recourse already dictated by federal law and Berg seems to be totally ignorant of this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: candidates need not meet the criteria required to hold the office, only the person that is finally selected. You cannot stop someone from being a candidate, otherwise Lyndon LaRouche wouldn't have been able to run for President in every election during the 80s and 90s. The man was a convicted felon and could not vote in the very elections in which he stood for office.

This was and is the fundamental problem with Berg's case as it was submitted in both the lower and upper courts. By law, the DNC did nothing wrong, even if it is proven that Obama did and even if it is proven that DNC leadership knew that he wasn't qualified to hold office.

If you look at Berg's comments with a legal eye, one can see he spins the presentation of the information in his direction. He posts:

The defendants are required to respond to the Writ of Certiorari by December first, after which Mr. Berg will have an opportunity to respond.

~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oct 30 2008 Petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment filed. (Response due December 1, 2008)
Oct 31 2008 Application (08A391) for an injunction pending disposition of the petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 3 2008 Supplemental brief of applicant Philip J. Berg filed.
Nov 3 2008 Application (08A391) denied by Justice Souter.

A quick check of the SCOTUS docket confirms this.

The respondents (NOT "defendants") are now formulating an argument to present to the courts as to why this case is not certworthy. I'm still reading over the petition so I can't comment as to potential arguments at this time.

It's worth noting who the respondent actually is... it's the FEC. This is interesting for a few reasons. The FEC has guidelines on how to file a complain regarding an election. Mr. Berg does not document if he followed these procedures.

www.fec.gov...

A review of Title XI (the USC that creates the FEC) shows that all candidates for federal office must register their campaign with the FEC within 15 days of receiving contributions for that campaign. To be placed on a ballot, one must obey the election balloting laws of each locality for which the candidate is to be on the ballot. This is all to which the FEC may attest.

Something is starting to stink with the way Mr. Berg attempted to gain a redress on this issue. The Federal Government, via the Constitution, mandates national elections, but it does not govern them. The states govern the election process and then submit results to the government via the Office of the Federal Register (in the case of a Presidential election).

By that process, as documented on archives.gov, the election isn't official until a joint session of Congress approves the CoA's (as submitted to them by the OFR), which is scheduled for January 9, 2009. It is at that point when the President of the Senate (Dick Cheney) asks for any objections to the acceptance of the CoA's as submitted. An objection must be submitted in writing and signed by one member of the House and one member of the Senate. The two houses then withdraw to separate chambers to discuss the merits of the objections and then reconviene to decide a course of action.

The more and more you dig into the actual nuts and bolts of this case, the more the wheels come off. Berg's problem is that he's asking for the wrong thing in the wrong way and really doesn't know how our government works.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by cogburn]

For what it's worth... there is NOTHING wrong with Berg's motivations, regardless of how you judge their merit.

This is a citizen that is, rightly or wrongly, concerned over his nation's future and attempting to gain piece of mind through a system of redress.

I think he's dead wrong and that Obama had legal dual-citizenship from birth and broke no law.

At least our system has a way to deal with such things. Unfortunately it always allows for those who want to perpetuate "the fix is always in" when they are not satisfied.

conspiracies are never just... out in plain day. it's never obvious... that's why they're 'conspiracy' theories. if it were so obvious that obama was born outside the us, we'd all know, it'd be 'common knowledge'. if he was born outside the us and the information of that birth was 'hidden' or 'covered up' then it would be common knowledge that he was born IN the us... but a conspiracy that he was born outside the us. although that the latter would be true, a substantial cover up would make it seem otherwise.

for example, if there really was a cover up, it makes perfect sense that what you would get is

a. not very much evidence to prove his birth outside the us
b. very circumstantial evidence
c. a number of people who know the truth, but suppress it
d. people who don't know the truth, but are paid to ignore it and enforce the lie

etc etc etc

just like exactly what we have. so to you all you who say we don't have legit evidence, or that we have proof he actually was born in the us, consider this....

this is how ALL conspiricy theories are.. vague and almost unbeleiveable
they cover it up that way.

to all those who beleive he wasn't born in the us, consider

it is still plausible that he
could
have been born in the us,
maybe

in any case... i'm 100 percent sure we'll never know

but i just wanted to clarify the nature of a conspiracy theory and what cover ups look like.... they look like the truth...

The more and more I dig into the legal nitty gritty and Berg's own statements and documents, the more I suspect Berg may very well know that he's approaching this in the wrong manner.

This is starting to smell like a personal publicity stunt/fund raiser of the GFL variety, but at the expense of the American electorate and the U.S. justice system.

There may very soon come a time when ATS mods lock all these threads.

OK, so let's say best case scenario, sometime between now and Jan. 20th, it is actually disclosed in court that he wasn't born on US soil and cannot become president. Does that default the presidency to Biden, McCain, or do we get a mulligan and have a hasty election do-over?

According to the information I posted previously, Congress would be required to decide if the claim has merits.

If the answer from both houses is "Yes", then Congress will meet in joint session to discuss a resolution.

There is no "constitutional crisis" because there is procedural law to handle the issue.

It's messy, but it's not a crisis.

TOTAL SPECULATION: Given that the Dem's control both houses (although they need a few more votes for a solid 60 in the Senate) I would say that Biden would be appointed President. He would then pick a VP that approved in a manner to a cabinet appointment.

Under US law, any child born to an US citizen is automatically a US citizen regardless of the actual birthplace. Obama's mother, Stanley, was born an US citizen (as were her parents), so Obama is considered a natural born citizen automatically.

This provision is especially important for families living abroad - in the military, working on a job out of the Country, etc. Otherwise, babies born to families stationed in or working in foreign countries would lack the rights granted to citizens of this country - right to vote and benefit from the rights of a citizen being most important!

What is the problem? Didn't any of you learn this basic tenant of US protectionism in high school?

Do you really think that if there was an ounce of a doubt regarding his status, he would have gone so far? The Dems would have not let him anywhere near candidacy, the reps would have been all over the issue.
And Obama was briefed on national security and state secrets recently. You think they would have done it if there was a shadow of a doubt?

You think this Mr Berg is right and the entire american administration are lousy worker?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


first you really need to code read the law. In 1961 if you were born to a U.S. Citizen and a foreign citizen and born outside of the U.S. you are only a natural born citizen if:

1. You were born on a U.S. Military base in that country.
2. The U.S. Citizen parent worked for the U.S. Government.
3. You were born in a U.S. Consulate.

Now since Obama's mother wasn't employed by the U.S. Government that rules out 2. he wasn't born in a U.S. Consulate that rules out 3. oh and he wasn't born on a military base. so that rules out 1.

So what does that mean? that means Obama could only become a naturalized citizen if he was born outside of the U.S.

Now being a natural born citizen prevents a person from running for POTUS!

reply to post by cogburn


Actually the SCOTUS has to hear this case. Berg raises a constitutional question. and By law SCOTUS has to hear any and all Constitutional questions.

Also the FEC only has authority of campaign financing. so since Berg is questioning Obama's Citizenship status he didn't have to file a complaint with the FEC. unless he wanted to complain about donations to Obama's campaign.