if i witness an alien or ufo.. this is the LAST PLACE ill present the evidence

Originally posted by weneedtoknow
just as i thought
replies and answers are more or less a imature `if you dont like it leave it` or somebody turning my words against me and accusing ME OF BEING NARROW MINDED!

No one (at least not I) is telling you to leave. What we saying is that you should to expect to be challenged. Not everyone, not even the believers, are going to agree with everything you say.

And, when you are angered because someone does not agree with you, and attack them for it, to the point of cursing and threatening to storm off, that is being narrow-minded. A belief in UFOs or other alternative ideas is not a pre-requisite for being open-minded; in fact, believers can be every bit as closed-minded as the skeptics you hate. Open-mindedness is a willness to at least listen to those with differing views.

Originally posted by weneedtoknow
im sick and done with this website
f*** you, you stupid pathetic skeptics GET A LIFE.....

For the record, an ellipsis is just three periods ("...") at the end of a sentence, not four or five or however many you feel like. It is only three.

For the record, an ellipsis is just three periods ("...") at the end of a sentence, not four or five or however many you feel like. It is only three.



getting smart are we
u better wipe that smile off your face

reply to post by weneedtoknow


I prefer to read here at ATS and don't post much. I would just like to tell you that if you are trying to defend the believers or fight their cause, you are doing a terrible job at it.
The believers sure don't need enemies with friends like you.

reply to post by weneedtoknow
friend, I agree with you, you don't need to post anything you might deem a revelation or proof here; for the heat would cook you.

Healthy, inquisitive skepticism is a necessary part of our examination and debate of any issue put forth here in this forum; after all, that is the purpose of the forum, to gather minds together to discuss, debate, and research said items of interest.

The 'hoax' hammer is well served at times, for there are,sadly, far too many out there that take delight in trying to fool the masses, waiting with baited breath to giggle and laugh at what fools they have made of everyone; unfortunately, with the advent of all the different cgi and photo editing programs, even someone as computer illeterate as I could craft a forgery with a little applied patience and research.

What you need to consider and dwell upon is that 'proof' is a different, variable concept for every individual, and what constitutes an absolute statement of fact to you may not be up to par with others.

Enjoy the different materials presented here for your perusal; if it suits you, research, document, and then state your theory and findings, with posted, linked data, and go from there; but don't take any debate personally, and calm down before you have a coronary.






seeker

[edit on 10/29/2008 by the seeker_713g]

Originally posted by weneedtoknow
getting smart are we

Just trying to help you out.

Originally posted by weneedtoknow
u better wipe that smile off your face

Or what?

reply to post by weneedtoknow


You really shoudn't get these people get to you like this.
I go on with a simple idea, wether you are a believer, skeptic, experiencer, doubter, whatever your color or belief system, a place like this one allows for a gathering, exchange in search of one thing, the TRUTH.

There are many threads where people will come up with some pic, there will be a discussion, and believe it or not, sometimes all sides agree on a forgery of some type.

Skeptics are not a plague, they're a necessity I'm affraid.
Now, there's skeptic and skeptic.

Some will look like they're following some kind of disinfo manual and present the same old counter arguments.
Some will even attack you or insult you.
Those are the ones you should learn to recognise and ignore.
It doesnt matter if they get banned, they're out looking for your scalp, they'll come back and bite back at you.

The people that are really looking for the truth won't misbehave. Keep your cool and you might even start liking some skeptics for a neutral approach or a brilliant analysis.

90% of the skeptics can't even think for themselves.

If it helps, try think that just a minority of the readers will post in them threads.

Also, people will throw the photoshop / CGI excuse at your face many many times. Some here even believe that no photo / film should be considered a valid subject for analysis due to the above.
And since many reports are now considered fantasies/fiction, well, you get the picture.
Yep, some would love to see the UFO subject nuked from this place.

But that doesn't have to stop you, it won't stop the others, and they can't stop you.

Originally posted by TH3ON3

Now the skeptics can be seperated into several categories:
...

Did I miss any?

Yes you missed mine.

I was a skeptic because I bought the party line of my religion that all UFO's are military aircraft, natural phenomena, delusions, or demonic. But I had never looked at the evidence for myself. It never occurred to me to look at the evidence, since I was so sure there wasn't any.

Many people who are skeptics have never truly considered the actual evidence. Of course that isn't possible on this board, since so much evidence is presented here. But some skeptics are skeptical because of ignorance.

But until just a few weeks ago I had never heard of ATS! And I had no idea that there WAS any evidence.

reply to post by weneedtoknow

from a very fed up and frustrated member who joined ats because he thought it was welcoming and open minded of alternative subjects... clearly i was wrong

I am new here at ATS too, and I do agree that there are many people here who are simply closed minded ..but that doesn't mean everyone is like that.

When I say "closed minded", I am not referring to skeptics, in fact I support them to a degree.. I am referring to those who enter threads simply to insult the OP because of the sensitive nature of a particular topic... it may affect their core beliefs if true, they thus reject that particular notion without consideration or further investigation.

Although that Blossom Goodchild GFL thing certainly didn't need consideration. I honestly believe that she has over tarnished the already tarnished reputation of UFOlogy. Actually I wrote a few posts that got deemed off topic that day(oct.14) and I'm usually a polite poster.

As for your frustration, I fail to see what frustrates you. Is it because you find no one to agree with? .. I happen to be a believer in the existence of ETs/UFOs but there are a couple of skeptics around here that deserve nothing but praise to be honest, for exposing hoaxers and frauds. You have to understand that without the skeptics it becomes impossible to deny anything, not everything is true right? God knows there are more hoaxers than honest people out there, therefore we need people who question the validity of everything.

Always beware of the sensationalists and their stories
(Steven Greer anybody? )


Peace all,

HanyouSpirit Here .

I have a solution that will completely clean up this part of the site, and make it much more friendly.


From both sides, get rid of the people that...

- insult people

- deny without backing it up

- call hoax all the time like it's a hobby.

- say fact without proof, or backing it up with something.

- blame others for not thinking the same way and or sharing their views on the world, for example.

etc. etc. etc.

I probably missed some people but that's a general list.

I don't mean just pm and tell them to stop and give them negative points, im saying BAN THEM!. Give them 1 warning, with a link to the appropriate part of the T/C or whatever, and then if they repeat even once, BAN THEM.

I promise you, this will definatly improve the environment here, if not completely cleanse it ^_^.

Back on topic. Op, please understand that not all skeptics here are your enemies, and i do know which ones you mean, they are but a good handful of the ones that should be given 1 severe warning and then banned if they do not obey. Same goes for the believers that shout truth and fact without backing it up and or providing something along the lines of theory, proof, evidence, etc.

But please do not say all, correct urself and say some. If you wanna be smart , say "some from both sides are really ignorant" because that would be true ^_^.

Anyways, good luck.

P.S - Try my idea, or your money back XD

if you would not even publish your own evidence here , why are you here at all ?

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
My stance on skeptism is simply this..

I would rather disbelieve 100 pieces of genuine evidence than believe in even one fraud.

This is one of the most sensible things I've ever read on here.

As a skeptic, all I want is something conclusive. If I was presented with clear, unambiguous footage of an alien, I would be absolutely thrilled. The difficulty seems to me a difference of approach. For example, a video that might be a UFO or might be a bird. To a believer, if you can't prove it's a bird then it's still possible it's a UFO. To a skeptic, if it's possible for it to be a bird, it's probably not good enough. Believers seek evidence of the phenomenon; skeptics, evidence for it.

I really don't see why there should be that many problems, in theory. We are, after all, all skeptics on our own terms.

reply to post by warrenb

How's this for a twist?
Flat Earth Myth

I agree with you that we probably have more evidence (not proof) for the existence of extra-terrestrials than we do for a historical Jesus. (Even considering the highly suspicious entries by Josephus Flavius, Pliny the Younger, Tacitus,and Suetonius) and we certainly have more evidence for UFO's than we do for the existence of gods.

However, as pointed out to you already, that's neither here nor there. One irrational belief certainly wouldn't justify all other possible beliefs. Each has to be examined for itself.


[edit on 30/10/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

As much as they annoy me, Skeptics are an important part of the community. They are the reality check we all need, they are not afraid to tell someone their baby is ugly.

However that being said, there is a difference between a healthy skeptic view and denial. Some people are SO sure that topic -X-is bunk that they jump right into that river in Egypt, floaties and all regardless of any evidence because all evidence on subject -X- is fabricated because in their opinion subject -X- is fabricated. Circular logic is so self fufilling.

So in the end you have to be as skeptical of Skeptics as much as they are as Skeptical of subject -X-.

reply to post by weneedtoknow


The practice of debate is to accurately appraise the truth, reality or applicability of any given subject matter.

For those who have experienced a sighting and wish to report a UFO, we would all invite them to post their information here and be available to answer some questions. We ask this of you with some level of understanding that there may be some questions considered direct or even harsh by any given standard.

In this age of internet and anonymity, there are times when those asking the questions, lose sight of the fact that there is a very real person on the other side of the screen. For this oversight, we can all apologize as we all have committed this sin at one time or another. But the questions, whether harsh or not, are necessary for the debate to assess these types of claims. It isn’t personal, but it is required and every person of an adult frame of mind can understand this, once explained.

I am not going to tell you that if you can’t handle the abuse, to get out, but I will tell you that you are well with your rights to ignore the comments of those who treat you in a manner inconsistent with respect or common decency. I would suggest to you or anyone else to simply, not reply to them as you do have that choice. So what, if some 12 year old kid pretending to be an expert on flux capacitors and time travel, spouts off to you, just don’t reply to them and they will lose interest and go play somewhere else.

reply to post by weneedtoknow


I agree completely.

If I had the evidence to prove their existence of course it's a simple answer I wouldn't be posting it on ATS or anywhere online for that matter.

I would show it to relatives first in complete secrecy then put it up for sale on the black market?

By the time I get a buyer and the $$$-transfer was sent to my account--Wooot I would be in the Bahamas chilling with a margarita.

Then of course by the time the buyer presented it to the world, the ET's would be all over him and the material would be quickly confinscated.

There are NO REFUNDS, on ET evidence that I sell...

SORRY-- buyers keepers---Losers Weepers!

Originally posted by TH3ON3
first of all you are acting just like the people who you are dissing. How can you expect everyone in a PUBLIC forum to think the same way as you?

That being said, as you mature, you will come to see that everyone in this world is different and unique. But let me post what I posted in answer to the I want to discuss disinfo agents thread. It will help to understand why some act the way they do.

Now the skeptics can be seperated into several categories:

1. Those who deny even when faced with irrefutable proof because that belief would mean admitting to something that goes against what they want to believe.

2. Those who deny because they have never had an "in your face" belief changing experience.

3. Those who deny because it is more "mainstream" and are trying to hang with the "in" crowd.

4. Those who deny due to a mental safety response that would keep them insulated from stressful possible truth.

5. Those who enjoy taking the opposite side.

6. Those who are turned on or excited by calling others beliefs crazy.

7. Those who find that having nothing to prove is a much easier position to take than proving something.

Did I miss any?

you did miss one. the category that i fall into and that is the smallest percentage of "skeptics"

Those who are waiting for the pic/video/evidence that they cannot come up with a theory as to how said evidence has been created so as to prove that the evidence is real.

Those who are waiting for the pic/video/evidence that they cannot come up with a theory as to how said evidence has been created so as to prove that the evidence is real.

-The only problem is that in the world of CGI there is nothing that can't be hoaxed on film/video/pic (as far as I am concerned). From what I have seen some people would never believe until an ET lands in their lap and even then till they have slain said ET, tested said ET with as many tests as possible and even then they would not be 100% convinced.

i agree. i have a shot that was never tampered with that was immediatley shot down as a hoax. the good ones seem to slip between the cracks here.

Originally posted by Helmkat
-The only problem is that in the world of CGI there is nothing that can't be hoaxed on film/video/pic (as far as I am concerned). From what I have seen some people would never believe until an ET lands in their lap and even then till they have slain said ET, tested said ET with as many tests as possible and even then they would not be 100% convinced.

Given the quality of CGI, surely that's the sensible response? The evidence around the video clip would of course be important. If someone could produce a digital camera, with the clip in the memory, it could be validated.

Until then ... why should a skeptic accept evidence for something extraordinary if it could have been faked? As I asked someone on another thread, what would it take to make you believe in minotaurs? Or fairies? Or anything extraordinary that you don't already believe in? Whatever evidence that would be, that's probably close to what I want.

All this 'even if aliens stuck their fingers up your nose you wouldn't believe in them' is flim-flam. Give me something concrete and I'll be right there with you.

Please, stop with the
"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

You sound like a broken record, or an escapee of some freak sect still repeating what he's been brainwashed.

Proof is relative. Different people will require different levels of proofs.
If a skeptic comes and calls something a hoax, fine, but then why come back and post again 20 times in the same thread ?

Some people just want two things, get threads closed, and drive the posters away.

Then maybe some experiencers will do the broken record trick and shout back at you
"You want the truth ? You can't handle the truth!"