Creationism's Legacy: Anti-intellectualism

reply to post by Good Wolf


not really 100% sure

some crazy suicide squad cult or another i expect

but hey its good advice anyway lol

reply to post by noobfun


Yea well they know I 'turned' so if they don't stand, point and screech body snatchers style, then I probably will avoid it aye.

Have you been on Oldthinker's thread?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think you'll be able to tribute quite a bit.

reply to post by Good Wolf


i see clears waving the flag for freindly tollerant christianity again, ill check it out properly later and see if i can find somthing worth saying to add to the thread

reply to post by noobfun


My name isn't 'clears', young-un.

Good wolf:
I have been to some off-the-wall churches and bless your heart if you had to go.
The MAIN thing is that Jesus is real; there is freedom of religion and all can worship as they choose, some just aren't very intellectual.
Jesus didn't roll around, bark like a dog(!) or do much of what goes on. I do believe in tongues, when done appropriately and in the right Spirit.
I've seen the real AND the fake.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I think it is because authoritarians hide in the "justified" as a shield against their misdoings I think. brings back the one about the thorn in your eye.. the splinter in mine.

I dont like people who love command, mainly because it ussually entails unjust force. Look around the world..

Propagating protectionism..evolving destruction and drugging a populace to create more of it.

after some payoffs, and corruptions. people would say anythng to stay happy. Just look at the corporate media hounds.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Jesus didn't roll around, bark like a dog(!) or do much of what goes on.

nope jeus didnt say go to church and bark like a dog
he said dont go to church at all

Matthew 6:1-6

clears a nickname .. its shorter then typing that crazy homophobic anti most christian southern woman ^_^

reply to post by noobfun


Jesus went to the Temple and preached.
He meant that those who go for show have their only reward. (possible prestige)
While those who have their heart right, have God's reward.

reply to post by Clearskies


Who are you to say what he meant with so much certainty? You're not him, nor were you there. He may not have even existed? Why did Jesus throw a hissy at the barren fig tree? You can't say with any certainty anymore than we can say what was before the big bang event.

So quick to make up your mind.

reply to post by Clearskies


To use the classic anti-evolutionist's argument: "were you there? did you see it? how do you know that's what happened?".

You claim Jesus existed, but don't have evidence for it. Then you say evolution doesn't happen because even when there's evidence for it. That clearly makes you an irrational, illogical individual. There is no escaping it.

fun•da•men•tal
–adjective
1. serving as, or being an essential part of, a foundation or basis; basic; underlying: fundamental principles; the fundamental structure.
2. of, pertaining to, or affecting the foundation or basis: a fundamental revision.
3. being an original or primary source: a fundamental idea.
4. Music. (of a chord) having its root as its lowest note.

Source

Chris•tian
–noun
7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.
8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ: He died like a true Christian.
9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.
10. the hero of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.
11. a male given name.

Source

I am a Fundamental Christian (I believe in the sacrifice of Christ.) I am not perfect and I will not preach to you or try to convince you that you are wrong and I am right. I honestly believe that everyone has a right to believe whatever they wish. I know that you believe as stongly in your ideas as I do in mine.

Creationism is a fundamental Bible belief. It cannot be proven through scientific means as it is a spiritual belief. Spirituality is a belief system where a person’s own experiences are interpreted through their belief system and interpretations of evidence are made through means other than scientific ones. This is basically the definition of anti-intellectualism.

I do not abhor science. I have found it quite useful in my occupation (aircraft mechanic.) I do not appologise for my beliefs or try to explain them unless I am asked. I do not try to prove the Bible or my beliefs. It doesn’t bother me that others may feel that I am brain washed.

Too many people think that intellectual is the same as intelligent. I consider myself anti-intellectual in many areas, yet intellectual in others. Most conspiracy theories are anti-intellectual as they go against the “status quo.” So being ant-intellectual is not necessarily a bad thing.

I’m glad that for the most part we have been able to keep on topic and civil throughout this thread.

I'm not religious and I don't necessarily believe in "God" per say but I do think intelligent design is possible and probable. But I can see where you're going with that. Are you talking about religious nuts (No offense to any religous nuts lol) and their idea of creationism?

reply to post by Shocka


It's definitely not probable. You are saying the existence of the primordial soup we came from (which we can model scientifically, showing just how it happens), and the catalyst that turned that into the building blocks of life and the first life, are less likely than some supernatural, all-seeing, all-knowing super being?

That is being irrational. Very, very irrational.

reply to post by Clearskies


but now try somthing special ... ready for this? ignore what pastor decon fred told ya at land over baptist and actually read the bible

jesus said when you do a good deed keep your mouth shut about it dont run around telling folk its between you and god

when you praise god dont do it in public in the street or in the temple its between you and god keep it that way

when you pray to god go to the smallest room in your house and say the lords prayer, no other prayer will do thats heathen like, so say the lords prayer and god already knows what you want/need so dont waste his time asking

those are the words of jesus exatley if you believe the bible is correct, do you know better then jesus?

reply to post by pteridine


Excellent post, star for you. Mind if I use your points when speaking with my family/friends in regards to why creationism/ID should not be taught in schools? I have been having this debate for several weeks with them, which is why the title of this thread caught my eye. Perhaps your wording style compared to mine would assist.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Goodwolf-I think these cartoons do a good job of crystalising the ´debate´


Cheers Karl

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by amazed


You'll love this one from Aurelius Augustine; St. Augustine of Hippo:

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.

reply to post by darkelf


I wish there were more people like you .
The problem most atheists have with Christians is that they push their views on us without even one iota of evidence. Very few Christians are willing to say that it's completely spiritual and that there's no physical evidence.
So just so you know, I don't believe this thread is meant for Christians like you - just the extremly dogmatic creationists.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by noobfun

 

Jesus went to the Temple and preached.
He meant that those who go for show have their only reward. (possible prestige)
While those who have their heart right, have God's reward.

AND when you pray do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corner to be seen by men. When you pray go to your room, close the door and pray to your father.

Seems pretty darn straight forward to me...anyone else? Seems to be saying not to go to church etc. That your spirituality should be between you and your god and no one else.

Hay kinda like I believe and live.

reply to post by amazed


Exactly. I'm very wary of people who need to go to church to be religious. It kind of makes those evangelical guys who run around the place and jump up and down 'speaking in tongues' look about as un-Christian as you can get, huh?

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by amazed

 

You'll love this one from Aurelius Augustine; St. Augustine of Hippo:

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.

Welll, maybe I am confused as to what this is saying, please feel free to correct me if I am way off base here.

I take this to mean, in a very simple format that....

stupid ignorant Christians cause problems for the wiser Christians. If a christian is obviously wrong in other areas of fact, they can make their religion look bad as well.

Is that what you are saying? Because maybe I have made myself unclear which is, I am not a Christian. I DO believe in some form of higher power, I DON"T know what that is. I DO feel that my spirituality should NOT and does NOT have anything to do with another person, place or thing other than between myself and whatever "god(ess)" I think about.

I definitely do NOT feel that spirituality/religion etc has any place what so ever in our science education in the school system. It is not science, it is a belief system with no facts to back it up. I also feel that if it happens to succeed and ends up being taught within the school system as "science" that many thoughts as posted in this thread will come true. As in anti intellectualism will come to pass.

Science and religion should not mix, just as religion and government should not mix. I actually feel religion is just a way to control the "masses" and in no way furthers spirituality. Religion to me, personally in and of itself is anti intellectualism, as religion seems to, at least in my experience, basically be a thought stopping process, just believe and if you don't understand well "god did it" and that's all you need to know. End of story no further thinking need be done, now move along.

Spirituality, at least to me is very intellectual, as spirituality encourages thinking, debating, questioning, curiosity and a continuation of thought.

Basically what I am saying is spirituality and religion are two different things, not based on science but based on emotion and a belief system, and basically have no place within the realm of science, unless it is something being scientifically studied and experimented on.

Basically to me creationism/ID/religion are thought stopping processes equaling anti intellectualism. I may not be the smartest person in the world, or have the ability to debate and explain my point of views in a great manner, but I do love that at this point in history humanity is questioning everything, looking everywhere and hopefully in the long run become better for this.

We all know what stagnation breeds right? I think religion breeds stagnation.