How should we help the lower income people?

My suggestions:

1. Revamp the foodstamp program so that it resembles WIC and only basic ingridiants can be purchased on the public dollar.

2. Increase childcare and public transportation subsidies.

3. Require drug testing for welfare.

4. Declare independance from Mexico. Again.

5. Make trade schools a valid alternative to college education.

6. Stop requiring automobile insurance.

7. Make MJ legal, lessen drug possession charges, but impose strict penalties for crimes committed under the influence of any substance.

8. Do NOT increase welfare benefits according to the number of children.

9. Impose a time limit on any form of welfare. Again, this could follow the WIC model.

I've never, ever turned away a man who says he is hungry. I take him immediately to the nearest food source and feed him. I will not give him money, but no one will ever ask me and be turned away hungry.

To overly assist folks is to make them even more helpless. You feed hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians because the land will not support the existing population, they breed even more hungry people, and God help them if their artificial, external food supply gets reduced or cut off. Now you've created an additional million babies that are suffering from starvation.

Sometimes, good-intentioned help makes for even more misery and tragedy.

Originally posted by asmeone2
My suggestions: (you're one of those that doesn't read every post aren't you?)

1. Revamp the foodstamp program so that it resembles WIC and only basic ingridiants can be purchased on the public dollar. how about we only allow six months total food stamps and then shut it down.

2. Increase childcare and public transportation subsidies. negative, no more increase anywhere

3. Require drug testing for welfare. My idea

4. Declare independance from Mexico. Again. how about enforcing the laws we already have?

5. Make trade schools a valid alternative to college education. they already are

6. Stop requiring automobile insurance. insane...no really this one is nuts

7. Make MJ legal, lessen drug possession charges, but impose strict penalties for crimes committed under the influence of any substance.
insane...no really this one is nuts

8. Do NOT increase welfare benefits according to the number of children.my idea

9. Impose a time limit on any form of welfare. Again, this could follow the WIC model. my idea


[edit on 28-10-2008 by deathhasnosound]

reply to post by deathhasnosound

7. Make MJ legal, lessen drug possession charges, but impose strict penalties for crimes committed under the influence of any substance.

I agree with this one. Drugs should be legal (Big Pharma already makes theirs legal). Only after a crime is commited should there be a penalty. Innocent Until Proven Guilty you know?

Although, I do not think being under the influence should worsen the penalty of a crime. For instance, if someone robs a store under the influence of coke. The coke variable should have no bearing imho. He should just be tried for his robbing of the store.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Although, I do not think being under the influence should worsen the penalty of a crime. For instance, if someone robs a store under the influence of coke. The coke variable should have no bearing imho. He should just be tried for his robbing of the store.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

I suppose it would depend on what specifically the crime is. For instance I don't think someone should be let off the hook if he kills someone while driving under the influence. In that case his substance of choice directly caused the death of another person.

Originally posted by Bunch
Why is it that in this country helping the poor through goverment programs is seen in such a bad light? Helping the poor is bad, is amounts to socialism and things of that nature is said in these boards on a daily basis.

Many of the people that say this come from a party that proud themselves of their high moral and religious values... Isn't a good thing to help those in need? Wasn't that one of those things that Jesus did and preach about throughout his life?

I am one of the people who have been saying this thinking is socialist, and a bad idea. And I am pretty much a Libertarian. And pretty much an agnostic.

My solution to how to help the poor: Teach a man to fish. Not literally, of course... But in the metaphorical sense.

Don't just help people. Help them help themselves.

I believe that the best way to help anyone, poor or otherwise, is to educate them for a career, and then make sure that the government does everything that it can to PROVIDE those jobs. This involves reversing the tax favors for companies that export jobs, and creating tax credits for bring jobs back into the United States. It involves having the government set policies that encourage, not discourage, job creation in this country. Such a multi-faceted program would not only eliminate the poverty, but provide people with the dignity of work.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by ProfEmeritus]

Why is it that every time a thread starts up discussing "poor" people or "low income" people, the conversation invariably begins to focus on welfare recipients and families receiving other assistance such as food stamps, WIC, HUD (rent assistance), etc.?

In my personal opinion, many of those folks aren't really the poor; they're the privileged. They're eating steak and going to movies on other peoples' tax dollars without having to work a lick. (Note I said MANY not ALL).

If you want to help someone, help the "working poor." The people who are too old, too young, don't have a college degree, have a mistake (i. e. a felony or bad credit) in their past, had a kid before they could get their act together, etc.. My husband and I fall into the "too old" category. People don't want to hire us for jobs with a "future" because apparently they think WE don't have a future. Like people stay in jobs long term these days anyway.

So my husband, after 30 years as an auto mechanic, now works in tire sales and oil changes for a large retailer because his arthritis has gotten bad enough that there are some things he can't do any more (like crawl under a dashboard), and I'm working a dead-end job at a non-profit. He's trying to get a second job just to keep our heads above water and we don't have diddly. Yeah, we have two cars because we both have to drive opposite directions to work, but they're both old and practically held together with duct tape and baling wire, and yeah we have Dish TV because if we didn't we'd have no TV at all, but the TV itself is almost 10 years old. We aren't lazy and we aren't greedy and we aren't dumb and we aren't getting ANY public assistance and our lifestyle is scraping by paycheck to paycheck trying to get a little ahead on some of the bills, or at least not get any further behind.

The other night on the TV news there were so-called middle class people complaining about having to pay $3,000 a month for child care. WTH?? That's more than our combined family income for one month. Then there are those "necessary" expenses like gymnastics, music lessons, martial arts, ... They make (and spend) more money in one year than I will see in the next 10. But it's my own fault that I chose the wrong college degree to get and had a couple of unpleasant divorces that caused me some problems, of course. And even at 50+, I'm sure they'll say I could get off my lazy butt and do something about it "if I really wanted to."

There are a lot of ways they could help people like us which would help for the long term. Pay off one of the credit cards they've had to use to buy gas or groceries. Buy a tank of propane to get someone through the Winter. Instead of trading in your 3 year old car for a measly few thousand, give it to someone who's driving a 15 year old clunker to work every day. Pay one of their utility bills. Give them a gas card.

There are people all around me struggling just like we are, and they aren't the stereotypical lazy bums on welfare or food stamps. They work 40 or 50 or more hours a week but they can't keep up with mortgage payments or rent, property taxes, insurance, basic utilities, food, gasoline, school expenses for their kids, vehicle upkeep and maintenance and/or car payments, etc. There are "poor" people who deserve a hand up and will do something constructive with it, and refusing to look for them in favor of dismissing all of the "poor" as shiftless welfare recipients who sit on their behinds all the time and live on taxpayer money is just a copout.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Negative!
This is an insane idea. If you weren't a user you would see through your smoke colored glasses how ignorant this idea is.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
...
I believe that the best way to help anyone, poorThis involves reversing the tax favors for companies that export jobs, and creating tax credits for bring jobs back into the United States. It involves having the government set policies that encourage, not discourage, job creation in this country. Such a multi-faceted program would not only eliminate the poverty, but provide people with the dignity of work.

I think this is the real path the country needs to take as well. If the greed that exists could somehow be reduced this might happen. Just seems that the money spent by decent paid workers will end up back in the system so those needing the hugh profits will end up making the money anyway.

Originally posted by deathhasnosound
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Negative!
This is an insane idea. If you weren't a user you would see through your smoke colored glasses how ignorant this idea is.

Accusing me of being a drug addict is pathetic and is against the T & C.

Accusing me of being a drug addict is pathetic and is against the T & C.

Smells like projection...

Originally posted by asmeone2
I suppose it would depend on what specifically the crime is. For instance I don't think someone should be let off the hook if he kills someone while driving under the influence. In that case his substance of choice directly caused the death of another person.

I would agree with that.

I suppose it would depend then.

I guess my position is just that they should be legal. And the crimes should be evaluated when they happen and not before.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I think I would keep meth illegal though. At the very least the production--other drugs don't blow up houses when they are made.

My mother works with a woman from India and her take on the situation was summed up with.

"In my country, the poor are not fat"

participation in the Food Stamp program does not appear to increase diet quality. Compared to similar households who do not receive food stamps but have the same non-food stamp income, households receiving food stamps do not consume more fruits and vegetables but do, unfortunately, consume more added sugars and fats

While the Food Stamp program has little positive effect on food quality, considerable evidence indicates that the program has the counter-productive effect of increasing obesity.

www.heritage.org...

Government programs are a failure on nearly every level. I have no problem with helping children with lunches at schools or other programs, but once you hit 18 you should be able to find your own source of nutrition. Depending on the government puts you in a trap that's difficult to escape without determination.

Personally, my parents never bought me a car or paid for my college. I worked hard for everything. The only advantage I had over people in the ghetto is a secure family life. People don't want to admit it, but culture and morality play a big part in keeping portions of society at the bottom. You're telling me that single women have a hard time paying rent, working, and raising the kids. Well Duh! I guess you can get food stamps, get fat, develop health problems and then blame it all on the rich folks. In reality it was a series of bad choices and ignorance.

What to do about it. Cut off welfare after 6 months. Let private organizations help people out. They usually ask for some sort of accountability for the help provided. And that's a good thing. The government is a poor substitute for a family and friends. Family and friends will get on your case about slacking. The government will let you continue in your self-destructive habits as long as you wish.

"Poor" in the U.S. really is poor only in comparison to those who are well off in the U.S. The poor here are far better off than the middle class in many other countries. I've lived in Africa for a while and I've seen real poverty. It does exist in America, but only in the rarest of situations. The "poor" want more only because they see someone else with more. Give them the same resources in another country and they would be content.

"“What do we covet? We covet what we see” - Dr. Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)

reply to post by asmeone2


In an ideal world no one would use such a horrible substance. Meth is probably the worst.

Nor would anyone use Big Pharma's legal speed and legal heroin.

It's a slippery slope when half are legal and half are not.

I believe in knowledge above all things. So I think the best approach to discouraging meth use is through education and not through criminal prosecution. The mere illegal nature of the street drugs is a big culprit behind their use to begin with (or at last the selling of them)

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


It is a slippery slope I agree, but then the production of meth and use of it could be in two separate catagories.

reply to post by asmeone2


In fact, I had just edited my post to reflect that

One begets the other though. If the use of the drug was legal it would have subsequent affects on its production.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by deathhasnosound


Do not judge so harshly. Odds are you favor drinking alcohol. Alcohol is also a drug in my opinion and persons do much worse things while on alcohol than on many other drugs. No matter what you are on, you should pay the penalty for any crime you commit.

Blaming people for being poor and on welfare on using drugs is quite an illogical approach. The world is cold and hard. I think people use drugs because they are unable to adapt to the challenge sthat our modern world demands. It is profit at all costs, and buyer beware. Nothing hardly is done for the betterment of society but instead to make sure that people continue to make profits. There is definitely room for profits in this world, however their should only be very modest profits when it comes to basic human needs. Shelter, food, transportation, healthcare, communications.

Do you really think that if everyone who is unemployed in this country were willing to work even a minimum wage job, that their would be enough jobs available for everyone? Or even if everyone was properly educated and trained? No way! Our economy has evolved to the point that we produce much more with many less employees. This increase in efficiency has only filled the already fat pockets who then take their money offshore to avoid paying any taxes on it.

The whole sytem is broke and we need to quit catering to the rich in order to fix it.

For instance: Everyone bitches about obamas tax hikes and redistribution of wealth. Do you realize that under Obama's Plan someone making $500,000 per year has to pay extra tax of $7500? Big fricking deal for someone making that kind of money. Someone making that kind of money is most likely grredy and thus if we take away that $7500, he will two extra workers so that he can make it back off of them.

Why does most everyone in this country look at things so ass backwards? I just don't get it? I doubt 1% of the members here make more than $250,000(except the owners here, much be zillionaires off all the ads), yet 90% talk policy like they are part of the elite. These folks are ripping you off every day, not paying you a living wage, and keep saying they need more money(less taxes) so they can keep helping the lower class. It is a retarded joke and you folks keep falling for it.

reply to post by Heike

Good evening, friend.
There are government programs available for workers laid off due to certain conditions:

f you qualify for unemployment insurance - lost your job through no fault of your own - you also could qualify as a "dislocated worker" with the U.S. Department of Labor. If your company is a government-certified victim of foreign competition, you could get Trade Adjustment Assistance in moving into that new career field.

For anyone that feels he or she qualifies, here is the link for instructions on how to apply.

Prior to my retirement, I had quite a few students that had take advantage of this program, in my classes. In almost every case, these students ended up being some of the best in the classes. One student ended up being the valedictorian in the graduating class, and was hired at over $65,000 a year.

I would strongly suggest that people check out the link, and call the US Dept. of Labor if you have any questions.

I would like to see many more of these programs, because they can turn lives around in a significant positive way.

I hope this helps.