Quit whining losers

Originally posted by Amuk
For all that say that voting Liberatarian is a wasted vote here are a few facts.........

16% of the people consider themselves Libertarians

There are currently over 400, not 300 like I said earlier,
Libertarians in office.

Libertarians are the THIRD largest party and best orginised of the "other" parties.

The last election was won by LESS voters than the number who consider themselves Libertarians (this one is my rough figures and could be wrong)


If you TRUELY wish for a change Libertarian is the best bang for your vote.

Interesting numbers yet a bit decieving. Here is a direct quote from the Lib page.

Currently, more than 590 Libertarians hold public office, more than all other third parties combined. In the 2003 elections, we elected 46 Libertarians, nearly half in higher-level races such as city and county council. During the year 2000, we ran more than 1430 candidates, more than twice as many as all other third parties combined.

www.lp.org...

One has to wonder how many "public office" positions there are in this country? My town has about twelve.
Nationally? One million...maybe two?. I'll leave that for Seekerof to reasearch .
My point is that the numbers are NOT there yet and the exposure is NON-EXISTANT. That's what needs to change. We need people who are sick of George Bush and Bill Clinton types to stop jumping from one side of the see-saw to the other just to "get rid of" who they hate this time around.
Without a MAJOR media campaign the Libertarians, as well as the other third parties, will always be known as "third-parties".


edit---Forgot the link and a typo.

[Edited on 29-3-2004 by Fry2]

Originally posted by Bout Time
And came out Libertarian both times.
But I'm voting Dem in Nov.

Why? You have to get the bullet removed before you work on the toenail infection.......more Bush will kills us! That takes voting to win, not voting to make a statement.

I took it and came out Libertarian as well.
But, I'm voting Republican in Nov.

Why? I have to make sure I can defend myself while I'm working on that toenail infection.
"Ted Kennedy" lite will emasculate this country and let the U.N. decide our fate.
That takes voting to beat the other guy. Not voting to do what's right. What choice do I have?

Thank you, amok. I had an arguement on another thread about this.

Third party. I keep banging that issue home. And I myself once registered as a libertarian, though now Im simply independant, and vote for whomever. last election I voted for my cat. Out of disgust for the choice of candidates. Every election before that, I voted libertarian, because i cannot bring myself to have a hand in the election of a commiecrat or republiklansman. This election? Dunno. Either libertarian or Kerry. Kerry spooks me, tho. Bush has to go. Youll find me licking Bin Ladens ass crack before u find me punching a chad next to Dubya.

Excellent idea the Ozzies have: compulsary voting. Ive often dreamed about making it required by law for Americans to vote, or pay a heafty fine and imprisonment. Serve them right. I shall vote this election too. I always do.

Thanks for posting the Libertarian Link Fry I meant to but I forgot.


The numbers are not deciving they are what they are, 16% is a large enough number to get some serious respect if they VOTE LIBERTARIAN instead of the two major parties because we a bombarded by the idea that THEY are the ONLY choice.

I would be willing to bet that probebly a third of this board is Libertarian and if HALF of them started movements in there towns or supported the ones already there you would start seeing REAL change in this country.


You are right about us not getting ANY coverage hell the greens get more than we do and dont have NEAR the membership. You can come to your own conclusions as to why we are Americas "dirty little secert"

I think we take some really polar views on an issue that's irrefutable: No US president, even GW Bush, will bargain away our advantage as the lone super power. We've never been shy about holding back funds or veto power before, and we won't be in the future. But now, we are complete "punks" on the world stage in regards to the UN. Take for example our recent holding back of aid: We committed $300M to the UN famine relief initiative....we've delivered $50M. This is not money, mind you, but harvest surplus.

The UN, operating with US buy in, would be a boon to our domestic well being, our international relationships and ultimately, back to our domestic wealth.
Plus, it would do wonders on decreasing our military mortality rate, not to mention the staving off of the pending draft.

I'm still trying to figure out where the 16% comes from but no matter. I am willing to bet that if EVERYONE in the country were informed of all of their choices you would probably get a much higher number.

My point was mostly on National elections. The Libertarian party (hereafter called LP) doesn't even have a candidate for President yet. Those "public office" holders that they refer to are probably Town Clerks or possibly Selectmen.
You can't go from "grass-roots" to Giant Sequoia overnight. The roots need time to grow. A little Miracle-Gro(cash) might help a bit though.

The 16% comes from there home page but I can not find it I will try again when I have time.

This number is people that CONSIDER themselves Libs not regestered Libs.

And I agree if more people were informed of their choices I honestly think we would rival the big two shortly.

And I urge all of you that say I would vote LP BUT... to at least get involved in the party at the local level remember that over time the smallest nut can become a mighty Oak.........LOL

Originally posted by Colonel

Originally posted by Amuk
I am just trying to get people to understand that what we have here is the classic school bully and until we stand up to him (the government) we are going to get our lunch money taken away.

To me if you arent willing to fight dont cry about being bullied

That's right. Go get 'em, Amuk! Take it to the MAN! I'm right behind you....................................................................................................................very far behind you

With help like that how can I lose

Originally posted by Bout Time
I think we take some really polar views on an issue that's irrefutable: No US president, even GW Bush, will bargain away our advantage as the lone super power.
Bill Clinton, China, Nuclear secrets.
We've never been shy about holding back funds or veto power before, and we won't be in the future.Jimmy Carter
But now, we are complete "punks" on the world stage in regards to the UN. Take for example our recent holding back of aid: We committed $300M to the UN famine relief initiative....we've delivered $50M. This is not money, mind you, but harvest surplus.
Quite true and disturbing yet in some cases it's the only diplomatic choice left.

The UN, operating with US buy in, would be a boon to our domestic well being, our international relationships and ultimately, back to our domestic wealth.
Plus, it would do wonders on decreasing our military mortality rate, not to mention the staving off of the pending draft.
I would like to see where the U.N. "buys" ANYTHING from the U.S.. I'll wait for clarification on the "US buy in" before commenting further on that part.
Our military mortality rate is unheard of. No military in the history of man has had a better ratio than the U.S..
I know it sounds cold but it's true.

Although some may see it as a violation of freedom of choice, i think you guys need to make voting compulsury... coz alot of the people who dont vote are just uneducated downtrodden deprived povert stricken people who dont realise they can make a difference... Here in Aus we have to vote, and as much of a hassle as it is to get in my car, drive 1km (1.6miles) to the nearest polling booth, get some paper, mark it, get back in my car, drive home and finish my beer is... i think i can manage such an incovieneince every once and a while...

But i agree with AMUK, if you dont like it, try to fix it and quit bitching, words wont do # if you dont take action!

I would prefer to have the 'choice' to vote becouse of my freedom to do so, but I will always vote becouse I feel it is the right thing to do and my civic duty.

Mandatory voting is not an expression of freedom.

Originally posted by smirkley
I would prefer to have the 'choice' to vote becouse of my freedom to do so, but I will always vote becouse I feel it is the right thing to do and my civic duty.

Mandatory voting is not an expression of freedom.

I agree it would be hard to claim to be Libertarian and have the Government FORCE you to vote.

Maybe just give FULL rights to those who vote, let the slaves be slaves

Has anyone noticed hardly anyone even votes on the ATS threads anymore?

Get those 1 through 10's in! It's good practice for voting 2004.

Originally posted by smirkley
I would prefer to have the 'choice' to vote becouse of my freedom to do so, but I will always vote becouse I feel it is the right thing to do and my civic duty.

Mandatory voting is not an expression of freedom.

Voting is your national and civil duty. By not voting, you are increasing the chances of a power being elected in your country who would happily see your freedoms taken away.

Freedom to not care who ends up governing you is just too contradictory to even contemplate.

Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by smirkley
I would prefer to have the 'choice' to vote becouse of my freedom to do so, but I will always vote becouse I feel it is the right thing to do and my civic duty.

Mandatory voting is not an expression of freedom.

Voting is your national and civil duty. By not voting, you are increasing the chances of a power being elected in your country who would happily see your freedoms taken away.
Well said and it's truly a shame that more people don't realize this.

Freedom to not care who ends up governing you is just too contradictory to even contemplate.

Very deep statement.
As an American I don't want to be "governed". I would much rather I were left alone unless I did something to harm someone else. Otherwise, I would like to pursue my Life, Liberty and happiness.

If a minority is organised enough to all vote successfully as a group, they can influence an elections outcome and bring into power the candidate who benefits them, even at the expense of a whole majority of whom there may be non voters. All of those who chose not to vote during that election only have themselves to blame.

Originally posted by Fry2
As an American I don't want to be "governed". I would much rather I were left alone unless I did something to harm someone else. Otherwise, I would like to pursue my Life, Liberty and happiness.

I hear ya.

Micro governing on a small community scale would be a welcome utopia in a perfect world, similar to making class sizes smaller so that the kids have a real voice and recieve real attention. But that means reducing the population and perhaps breaking up a country into Independent nations. Which I dont think will happen, at least in the US.

We have an election coming up and if EVERYONE that said my vote dont count and I am too busy hiding in the woods from the shapeshifting reptiles would get up, get off the computer and vote we WOULD see a change. I would suggest Libertarian or Independent because the big two will not change anything, why should they?

the only thing we vote for is someone who is supposed to represent us in our best interest. sure, they may appease you by agreeing with you on the phone, or in letters, but when it comes right down to it, they do what looks good- if 99% of the senate votes no on something, you can be damn sure that the last person to vote is probably going to vote with the majority, regardless of whether it is right or wrong. that's what politics is about nowadays.

besides, its much more interesting to talk about shapeshifting reptiles. politics gets boriing after 2 months of election ads, with 8 months left of them anyways.

This is OUR country and it was built on the blood and sweat of the common man.

It was also built on the blood and sweat of the Indigenous culture that existed b4 the 'common man' claimed it as his own.

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Zero Point]

Why would I bother trying to improve a system I have no faith in? Nah, no thanks. I'll just pay my taxes make my living and live my life. Life is too short to be wasting time trying to change what people have been doing for centuries. It has never stopped with any nation and it's not gonna stop with this one.

I really don't get disappointed because I have no hope for it and really don't care. If anything, I hope things just keep getting worse. Either people will realise, or they won't...