Honest Questions/Concerns about the Sen. Obama Campaign

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by OldThinker

 

No. Not another topic. When you brought the subject of wright into one of the many questions you posed concerning Obama without weighing that with the religious ferver of the McCain campaign you brouht hypocracy to your own thread.

I doubt the sencerity of your questions. There is a glaring double standard here.

OK...

I just feel that a practice in Salem a few hundred years ago is off topic for a 2008 political campaign discussion, that's all..

Hey, I'm just the OP...not a Moderator...you can go where ever you fingers guide you...

It was just a request from me...that's all...ok?

Originally posted by Witness2008
No. Not another topic. When you brought the subject of wright into one of the many questions you posed concerning Obama without weighing that with the religious ferver of the McCain campaign you brouht hypocracy to your own thread.

Yes Palin is a bit extreme when it comes to religion. But does her church preach racism as a doctorine? From what I understand they are into pro-life extremism and maybe snake handling (which...as long as the snakes are treated properly...i have no problem with)

If you have a problem with her church please illucidate. Be specific. I was.

reply to post by Witness2008

Hey, Witness2008...


also...you can discuss the McCain issues you have


No prob...

reply to post by OldThinker


It is a practice that Palin herself has played a part in just three years ago.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.youtube.com...

If you are willing to question Obamas relationship with a church why not Palin or McCain?

reply to post by Sonya610


I'm am still unsure of what lead you to believe Wright is racisit.

I don't see racism in any statement he has ever made. What I believe he is doing is screaming the truth about the injustice that is served up to certain races and religions in this country. I have seen no discrimination on the part of Wright.

reply to post by OldThinker


I have but one McCain issue. His Bush policies. What I take issue with in this thread and others is that you dance around the dire issues we face with Ayres, Wright and Acorn but then have difficulty aiming that highpowered perception at McCain.

There many great orators in this country...they are called 'USED CAR SALESMEN"! It doesn't make them qualified to be POTUS. Baffleing the citizenry with BS sure doesn't make anyone a great politician or a good legislator. Slick tactics makes them charletans to me. Obama and McCain are all these things. But...Obama is in the lead when considering all these facts!

Zindo

Well, reviewing Saturday's posts...I'd say is a tad favored for Obama...

Any thoughts on Sunday?

reply to post by OldThinker


So what's up for sunday that we should have any thoughts on?

reply to post by Res Ipsa


In a way I agree with you on court appointments.I have always contended that supreme court justices should by definition make their rulings from the literal translation of the constitution.Not by the "spirit" of the law.
Hair splitting and word twisting is not what their job is.It is to protect and defend the constitution,and apply that to the rulings.

Having read some of the "findings" of our more liberal jurists,where they lean toward improvised inturpertation instead of the factual letter of the law.
I therfore have to say that I would have to support someone who would appoint strict constitutionalists to the bench.

It's a non issue. Ayers is no longer a terrorist and simply knowing, working or friends with someone does not mean you have the same views as that person. If there is actual documentation of Obama standing on a flag or planning on blowing up buildings that would be a different story.

If it were only Ayers, I would concede the point. However, Barrack Obama has spent his life with mentors like Frank Marshall Davis, Rev. Wright and William Ayers. One of his confessed influences is Saul Alinsky. All of the above share some very basic attitudes towards the United States and their socialist/marxist views of society. Since we don't know much about Barack Obama one can only look at his own writings, what little legislation the man has written or co-sponsored, and look at his relationships.

If you have actually read "Dreams of my Father" you would realize that the "Frank" Obama refers to is yet another "association". Frank's full name is Frank Marshall Davis he was a member of the Communist Party in the United States. He was very influential to Barack during his high school years. Recommending poetry and infusing Obama with his ideals. Barack admits as much in his book.

Why does this matter? Because most of the media has ignored looking at Obama's own words to help the public learn about the man who wants to be President. Secondly, he has relatively no legislation that he has written or co-sponsored. So, that leaves a voter like myself needing to look a little harder at a candidate I may vote for. The only indication I have of who Barack Obama is, what his values are, and how does he feel about issues that I care about is looking at his past relationships.

In terms of questionable "associations" this only tip of the iceberg, if you look at his donor list you'll be surprised to see the number of people who have suspect ideals donating money to Barack Obama candidacy.

My theory is that the socialists/marxists of the '60s realized that their "counter-culture" would never really stick in the United States. So they started a deliberate effort using propaganda via the public school system, universities, and the main stream media to slowly start converting US citizens to be more open to their ideas. Meanwhile, using the demoncratic party as their vehicle making us more dependant on the government. All the while waiting for the right candidate and time to make a whole sale change to the United States. I change I don't think anyone will like.

So, you see it is not a matter of knowing or having an association with Bill Ayers. It is a tendency Barack Obama has to feel comfortable around and learn from men like Ayers, Davis, and Wright etc. I believe Barack Obama is the candidate the socialist/marxists in America have been waiting for. What remains to be seen, is will he win the election and secondly will he impose the ideas he has professed on the campaign trail the last 8 months which are more populist or the ideas he was campaigning with for the first 16 months he was running for President, which were hard-left borderline socialist?

Imagine how quickly this country will change if there is a super majority in the senate, majority in the congress and a Barack Obama presidency...That idea may not scare you, but having one party with so much power scares me...look at history and you'll see some very scaring similarities and those situations never ended up good.



[edit on 26-10-2008 by interested but skepitcal]

Some very interesting answers by others. Here are mine:

1. I am worried about his association with William Ayers…and the small amount (in my mind) of ‘distancing’ that Obama has put forth. Anyone else?

I am not concerned about Obama's past association with William Ayers. They were on a board together many years after Ayers was involved in the Weathermen. Many people I have known in my life have done illegal things. Ayers' actions when Obama was a child do not reflect on Obama now.

2. I am worried about his association with Rev. Wright…meaning the 20 years of sermons/views had to assimilate some erroneous worldviews. Anyone else?

I don't care about any of the candidates' religious experiences or views as long as they keep their religion out of government. And by that, I mean in the strictest sense of the first amendment.

3. I am confused that his directness/honesty about leading from a very-left liberal stance has not garnished more skepticism from the center? Anyone else?

I would have to know, specifically, what left liberal stances you are concerned about to answer this question. In general, I am not at all concerned. I disagree with some of his views and agree with others.

4. I am disturbed, maybe confused is better for this one, that a high percentage of the journalist media is, from my watching, OVERLY FOR the Obama campaign. Certainly, the American mainstream media tilts a tad left…but in the past…NOT to this extreme. The cable arm of the respected National Broadcast System called MSNBC seems to me to be an arm of the Obama candidacy and positions? Anyone else agree? Disagree?

I agree that MSNBC is clearly supporting Obama. Much like FOX has, for many years, supported the GOP and their candidates. I'm not at all confused by people or even media supporting Obama. He's pretty incredible, especially when we consider the last 8 years of Bush/Cheney. Over 80% of people in this country are fed up with the direction this government has taken their country. It's not at all confusing or disturbing that they would overwhelmingly support someone who is clearly very different from what we've seen for the past 8 years.

I'm confused that you're confused,

5. I am perplexed with the MOMENTUM created with a relatively new, young politician. Doesn’t it seem fast and somewhat ‘pressed’?

Obama has risen like a star. Sometimes people do that, regardless of their occupation. If a person is good at what they do, they get noticed and supported to rise to the top. Some people are "naturals" in what they do. I believe Obama is a natural leader. There's no restriction saying that politicians must spend so many years doing this and that.

The first time I saw him speak (at the 2004 Democratic Convention) I knew I wanted him to be our president. Everything I have learned abut him since then has confirmed that.

6. I am impressed with his ability to dodge/dance/divert skepticism/criticism. Is he just that good?

I'm not sure what you mean here. He answers his criticisms just like everyone else.

Add: I am also struggling with the massive intrusion of our leadership into our money...are you all? Is this all linked?

If you mean the $700 Billion "bailout", yes, I was against that and I am disturbed by it. If you mean Obama's tax plan, I wholly support it. It's time corporations and the wealthy stop getting all the tax cuts.

Originally posted by OldThinker
I just feel that a practice in Salem a few hundred years ago is off topic for a 2008 political campaign discussion, that's all..

You do know that Sarah's pastor prayed over her for her to be protected from witchcraft, right? That wasn't hundreds of years ago, if was 2-3 years ago. Just FYI. I don't care about her religion.

Originally posted by Sonya610
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White ...

What's wrong with claiming that one is unashamedly black? Should they be ashamed? Aren't people unashamedly white? I have no problem with a congregation (which includes white people, btw), being proud of their race and their heritage...

As a woman, a person whose gender has historically been persecuted and treated unequally, I can understand standing up and claiming pride in my gender. No one went after Helen Reddy when she proclaimed, "I am Woman, Hear me Roar"...



[edit on 26-10-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by daddyroo45
reply to post by Res Ipsa

 

Having read some of the "findings" of our more liberal jurists,where they lean toward improvised inturpertation instead of the factual letter of the law.
I therfore have to say that I would have to support someone who would appoint strict constitutionalists to the bench.

Much validity in your post about judges...

Thank you for your thoughts!!

OT

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Some very interesting answers by others.

Here are mine:

Originally posted by OldThinker
I just feel that a practice in Salem a few hundred years ago is off topic for a 2008 political campaign discussion, that's all..

You do know that Sarah's pastor prayed over her for her to be protected from witchcraft, right? That wasn't hundreds of years ago, if was 2-3 years ago. Just FYI. I don't care about her religion.
= = = = =

Is this a bad thing...?

Do you deny evil in the world?

I sure hope someone is praying for her...me...and you...!!!

Nice post overall

OT sleepy!

...Imagine how quickly this country will change if there is a super majority in the senate, majority in the congress and a Barack Obama presidency...That idea may not scare you, but having one party with so much power scares me...look at history and you'll see some very scaring similarities and those situations never ended up good.

[/quote)

interested but skepitcal'

Thanks for your post...I especially liked this comment!

[edit on 27-10-2008 by OldThinker]

reply to post by OldThinker


Kind of like the imbalance we have had to endure this last administration?

Originally posted by OldThinker
Is this a bad thing...?

As I said (was it this thread?) I don't care about people's religion, so I have no judgment about it in that regard. I am quite intrigued, in fact with the modern day practice of witchcraft (Wicca). You had said that a practice in Salem a few hundred years ago is off topic, and I was just saying Sarah Palin's experience with prayer and witchcraft wasn't a couple hundred years ago, but a couple years ago.

Do you deny evil in the world?

No.

As regards a majority in Congress, I think this country WOULD change fast if there was one. This country NEEDS to change fast. The Republicans have had their chance to do something and we see where that has gotten us. Let's give the Democrats a chance and see how they do. They'll be handed a messed up country with a failing economy, 2-4 active wars to deal with. Eight years should be about enough to straighten up the mess, I would think.

A "mixed" bag (like the past 2 years) gets us nothing but gridlock.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The Republicians didn't have a super majority and most of the legislation that was passed was a "watered down" verison of the original. If the Republicians had a super majority things would be a lot worse. So what makes you think the Democrats with unchecked power can do any better? I don't have much faith when it comes to power and humans we get greedy. I think the best defense against unfettered power grabing is to have balance in at least one branch of government.

Additionally, the events in history I was referring are not of the recent variety. I was referring events that are more than 50 years old...

[edit on 27-10-2008 by interested but skepitcal]

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Kind of like the imbalance we have had to endure this last administration?

Exactly!!!

How'd that work out for us?

Don't think you were trying to echo the sentiment...but I think you did...

OT

1.I am unworried by his association with Ayers... who never actually killed anyone and was quite legitimate in targeting the killing machine that is the Pentagon.

2. I was unworried by his association with Jeramiah Wright. All most people saw of his sermons were the 'America's chickens are coming home to roost'. If you listen to the rest about American Foreign policy and treatment of minorites within it's own borders, Wright is correct.

3. What worries me more is that nothing will change even though that's waht he built his candicay on. I feel Obama is a genuinely good person who would like to change America for the middle and working class. But look how the media and people of conservative nature react when this is put forward. He is called a Commie, Muslim...it is actually insane what some people who oppose him come out with. Whenever anyone does try and actually change things they are dealt with.