Honest Questions/Concerns about the Sen. Obama Campaign

Honest Questions/Concerns about the Sen. Obama Campaign

Obama-mania bothers me! Thoughts?

Prerequisite: No Flaming please… Let’s keep the posts targeted, ok?

Background: I am generally a traditionalist when it comes to American politics…what I mean by that is I see value in both sides of the aisle…I appreciate the heart of the Sojourners Movement, I highly respect the famous Democrat Dr. Anthony Campolo…and I also watch Bill O’Reilly at times and am glad we took a hard line with the terrorists. I only share this as a ‘fyi’…not to win a political argument. Just to let the readers know where OT shakes out…

To the Point: I have to give it to Mr. Obama. He is a great orator, a brilliant communicator and is an extremely personable gentlemen…with that said I am confused/disturbed/leery about the ‘hype’ centered around this phenomenon/campaign.

The verdict is still out…I have not decided who I will vote for.

But I am troubled here…see the cumulative-specifics below…

1. I am worried about his association with William Ayers…and the small amount (in my mind) of ‘distancing’ that Obama has put forth. Anyone else?
2. I am worried about his association with Rev. Wright…meaning the 20 years of sermons/views had to assimilate some erroneous worldviews. Anyone else?
3. I am confused that his directness/honesty about leading from a very-left liberal stance has not garnished more skepticism from the center? Anyone else?
4. I am disturbed, maybe confused is better for this one, that a high percentage of the journalist media is, from my watching, OVERLY FOR the Obama campaign. Certainly, the American mainstream media tilts a tad left…but in the past…NOT to this extreme. The cable arm of the respected National Broadcast System called MSNBC seems to me to be an arm of the Obama candidacy and positions? Anyone else agree? Disagree?
5. I am perplexed with the MOMENTUM created with a relatively new, young politician. Doesn’t it seem fast and somewhat ‘pressed’?
6. I am impressed with his ability to dodge/dance/divert skepticism/criticism. Is he just that good?
7. Is there more to all of this than meets the eye?

Well, thanks for reading…and in advance if you respond. Should be a busy weekend, so I may not get back to you for a few days…

OT out!

Edit: Add: I am also struggling with the massive intrusion of our leadership into our money...are you all? Is this all linked?




[edit on 25-10-2008 by OldThinker]

reply to post by OldThinker


For me Obama represents a new tact our country needs to take. I for one would like a skilled speaker, communicater to represent my interests to the rest of the world...It seems the rest of the world is already impressed.

Ayers..come on, if you can not include the very questionable contacts of McCain over the years when it comes to guilt by association the subject of Ayers and Wright should not start a converstion.

I think his campaign does so well because Obama and his supporters are genuine. What you see is what you get. Or it could be Obamas campaign is doing so good because McCains is doing so bad. I tend toward the former.

reply to post by Witness2008


Thanks for your reply...

No debate here...from me...just asking questions and appreciate your input

reply to post by OldThinker


For my part, I would say:

1) Yes, definitely.
2) Yes, definitely.
3) It doesn't surprise me at all, but yes, its a major concern that I have, but more about the American people and their willingness to be led around than even my concerns about Obama.
4) Journalism in America is dead, IMO. I have zero faith in their ability to objectively report a story.
5) See #3.

6) He uses standard deflection techniques, and yes, he's pretty good at it. If asked an unfavorable or problematic question, he answers by re-stating the question in a more favorable way or that deflects to a tangent only partially related. Watch him the next time he's asked a tough question. How many times are the first words out of his mouth 'You see, Mr. Reporter, here's what the problem is...' and then goes onto re-state the question in a way that favors him. He does it very, very often. They all do it, but the media rarely if ever calls Obama on it when he does.

7) I think so. I'm just not sure what.

And yes, I'm very concerned about the government's intrusion into our lives and finances. If you want to know if its linked, ask yourself who Obama will be working with in the Senate and House. What are their agendas and do you support it, because an Obama adminstration's policies are largely going to be dicated by those people.

Reverend Wright and that extreme racist church has always been the deal breaker for me. It is just so way over the top I am amazed that others don't have a problem with it.

I have always leaned towards the democrats, never voted for a republican presidential candidate, except this time I might. Whatever happens I could never in a million years vote for Obama (and yes he is a good speaker, and yes I do agree with his position on some things).

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by OldThinker

 

And yes, I'm very concerned about the government's intrusion into our lives and finances. If you want to know if its linked, ask yourself who Obama will be working with in the Senate and House. What are their agendas and do you support it, because an Obama adminstration's policies are largely going to be dicated by those people.

Solid point/question here...I'll think some more about this one...

reply to post by Sonya610


OK, thank you for the post...Wright's the kicker for you...

OT

I'll presume that your thread is sincere and not yet another Republic smear drone and so I'll respond. First, I should point out that I am not a McCain supporter nor am I an Obama supporter. But I detest the ignorance that is flying around these days and cannot wait for it to end. That said:

1. I am worried about his association with William Ayers…and the small amount (in my mind) of ‘distancing’ that Obama has put forth. Anyone else?

This argument is pure political sewage. Obama wasn't in the Weather Underground. Ayers was some 30yrs ago. Today he's a respected college professor and was appointed to an eductaional reform board by the Annenbergs on which Obama sat. So what? This is the 2008 version of Willy Horton/Swift Boat. I'd I was McCain I would be ashamed beyond words for this tactic. Look at the people McCain has been 'associated' with. The Keating Five gang for starters. Ayers 'bombing' attempt did far less damage to this country then did the likes of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, et al. But somehow they have (so far) evaded the monker of 'domestic terrorists'.

2. I am worried about his association with Rev. Wright…meaning the 20 years of sermons/views had to assimilate some erroneous worldviews. Anyone else?

Wright is a typical religious rabble-rouser. And although he suffers from hyperbole at times he isn't all that radical. Look at some of the 'official' religious people. Consider some of the rantings of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Friends of the Whitehouse for years. Same lunacy just on the other end of the dial.

3. I am confused that his directness/honesty about leading from a very-left liberal stance has not garnished more skepticism from the center? Anyone else?

This whole label game is absurd. So people's way of thinking fits neatly into these comfortable bins? That's crap. It's spectral. Nearly infinite in its complexity and simpletons force people into these bins out of convenience and ignorance. The 'center' --- at least that part that is awake --- realizes that the country has been systematically flushed down the toilet by 'the right'. Like most of us they recognize that the path we are on couldn't be more wrong. And, like most of us, they know the McCain "I won't be like Bush' argument has no credibility. His past proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

4. I am disturbed, maybe confused is better for this one, that a high percentage of the journalist media is, from my watching, OVERLY FOR the Obama campaign. Certainly, the American mainstream media tilts a tad left…but in the past…NOT to this extreme. The cable arm of the respected National Broadcast System called MSNBC seems to me to be an arm of the Obama candidacy and positions? Anyone else agree? Disagree?

The MSM are whores. They know that the majority of people are leaning Obama and so they do as well. If you look back over the entire campaign you'll quickly see that their 'bias' changes with the winds. They're fickle more than biased. Cheap opportunists.

5. I am perplexed with the MOMENTUM created with a relatively new, young politician. Doesn’t it seem fast and somewhat ‘pressed’?

Not unprecedented. The country is on-the-ropes. We need and are looking for someone that we can get behind. Someone that inspires. Someone that offers hope. His style, calm demeanor and eloquence play to our collective needs. Will he deliver? Only time will tell.

6. I am impressed with his ability to dodge/dance/divert skepticism/criticism. Is he just that good?

Are you serious? Do you listen what comes out of the mouths of McCain and Palin? This is the nature of politicians. It's what they do. If a poltical person told the unambiguous truth they'd be pushed aside. People don't want the truth. If they did, Ron Paul would be on the ballot.

7. Is there more to all of this than meets the eye?

Yes. On either side. What that is we won't be able to know until afterwards. With either candidate.


For me, the primary mission right now is to get the controlling powers OUT of Washington before it's too late. Doing that will, at least for a time, stop our march into the abyss. I'm curious why you didn't mention any concerns with the other ticket. You have no concerns with Palin's inexperience? With her disregard for Alaska's ethics laws? With her seeming inability or unwillingness to learn what the role of the VP is? Or McCain's radical flip-flopping on issues, his treatment of the POW movement, his vsceral ties to the very people that have routed our country, his questionable judgement (and seeming pandering) by selecting Palin? Face it, this isn't an ideal election. They never are. But I think we're on damage-control right now. And obviously we need to get the people with their hands on the controls out of Washington before it's too late --- if it isn't already.

For me it comes down to being able to see through all of the candidates mandatory pandering and look at what they as President really will have power to do. 1) appointing Supreme Court Justices....Do I want a liberal or concervative Court? Great question because it depends on the issue. BUT ideally we would not have a damn partisian Court, but that just isn't facing reality. I do believe Obama would have better choices than McCain simply because Bush put up Meir's and McCain chose Palin. He might just choose a nominee with equally lacking credentials. ( I don't care about who served on which board with which person or if they shook hands with Sadam Huessian at some meeting)

2) Who will the rest of the world respect? If we need help, who will they want to help more? People in the world community are just tired as hell with our gun slinging, you're either wit us or again't us, mentality. As a Country we sure give a paradoxacal new meaning to "two faced" because on the outside we put on this waring arogant mean face but then on the inside we dole out billions to help people. It usually is the other way around.

3) Bringing credibility back to the White House. Intellecutal curiosity.

4) As a Christian I have noticed that every time we break through the color barrier it improves all of our lives. What would professional sports look like if we didn't? The NFL? bahhwaa, it never would have survived. MLB? If we excluded all the Dominican's and Cuban's? etc......It "is" in our Nation's best interests to break this barrier in Politics too. I would have been cool with Powell if he ran, but he didn't.

5) lastly, and to really give my opinion on your concerns, they are political games. Ayers, Palin's $150,000 wardrobe, Joe the Plumber, Wright, serving your Country in the military, avoiding military service, being against it, being for a 100yr war. Voting against a Bill that provides for free meals for mentally retarded homeless children, but not being told that the Bill also allocates 1 billion dollars so that McDonalds could put up restaurants along the superhighway connecting Tehran and Bagdad.

I don't care about Rev. Wright nor do I care about McCain's own Mein Kamf time in Vietnam. Neither one makes either of them Presidential nor NOT presidential.

I would like a 100% Democratic government this year and so if they do nothing then they have nothing at all ever to say to the American people that would get them re-elected. The experiment is worth 4yrs of my time. Then give the Republican's a shot if the Dems blow it. Then after they screw up, maybe America will be ready for a real and viable third party!

reply to post by Sonya610


What do you think about Palins extreme religious and social views that can be linked to the Reverand Muthee? For me that causes a much greater concern than does Wright.

I am so with Jtma508.
he said it better than me.

reply to post by Res Ipsa


I'm with you on that. I am always weary of threads that seem to bait. But today I am nursing a war wound and need a little excitement in my day.

I enjoy running into you.

1. It's a non issue. Ayers is no longer a terrorist and simply knowing, working or friends with someone does not mean you have the same views as that person. If there is actual documentation of Obama standing on a flag or planning on blowing up buildings that would be a different story.

2. Another non issue, Wright's views does not necessarily reflect that of the church members. I went to my family's church for many years, but I never had the same beliefs as much of its members. It was more out of tradition and making other family members happy. A video of Obama damning America would make make this a different story.

3. Obama is not a liberal, he is actually a slightly conservative moderate. Of course he may seem liberal when compared to the current Republican party, but that is more of a reflection on how the Republican party has moved to the right.

4. The media is not necessarily for Obama. You do remember how they played the Wright videos over and over. I think Obama gets more positive press coverage due to how poorly the McCain campaign is being run. For example, the fixation on the socialist name calling, Acorn and Ayers while most voters are concerned about the economy. Also, I believe the negativite or optimistic tone of the campagns helps shape the coverage they get. Base your campaign on negativity and you get a more negative tone to your coverage.

5. People want a change in Washington and believe that the younger politicians are more likely to bring change.

6. He really hasn't dodged that many things. Most of the accusations against him have no more merit than the illegimate black baby charges against McCain in 2000. The whole muslim/arab unAmerican type accusations really don't need a response. Even McCain has refuted those accusations about Obama. On other issues like the Tax debate, he clearly states his positions.

7. It's just politics with people choosing different sides based their beliefs, traditions, or fears.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Sonya610

 

What do you think about Palins extreme religious and social views that can be linked to the Reverand Muthee? For me that causes a much greater concern than does Wright.

Does Palin's church profess the following on their website?

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly White and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the European religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a White worship service and ministries which address the White Community.

Does it? LOL...of course not. No comparison! None at all!

www.trinitychicago.org...

[edit on 25-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by jtma508
I'll presume that your thread is sincere and not yet another Republic smear drone and so I'll respond. First, I should point out that I am not a McCain supporter nor am I an Obama supporter. But I detest the ignorance that is flying around these days and cannot wait for it to end. That said:

1. I am worried about his association with William Ayers…and the small amount (in my mind) of ‘distancing’ that Obama has put forth. Anyone else?

This argument is pure political sewage. Obama wasn't in the Weather Underground. Ayers was some 30yrs ago. Today he's a respected college professor and was appointed to an eductaional reform board by the Annenbergs on which Obama sat. So what? This is the 2008 version of Willy Horton/Swift Boat. I'd I was McCain I would be ashamed beyond words for this tactic. Look at the people McCain has been 'associated' with. The Keating Five gang for starters. Ayers 'bombing' attempt did far less damage to this country then did the likes of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, et al. But somehow they have (so far) evaded the monker of 'domestic terrorists'.

2. I am worried about his association with Rev. Wright…meaning the 20 years of sermons/views had to assimilate some erroneous worldviews. Anyone else?

Wright is a typical religious rabble-rouser. And although he suffers from hyperbole at times he isn't all that radical. Look at some of the 'official' religious people. Consider some of the rantings of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Friends of the Whitehouse for years. Same lunacy just on the other end of the dial.

jtma508,

Yes I'm sincere/curious...

Appreciate your time and well thought through response...

Regarding your answer to number one-I just wish I saw more distancing from Barrack....unqualified...and tell the pundits to stop making excuses for Ayers...

Religious extremes...yes...but I never heard those on the right say God Dam& America...the comparison is a bit lacking...Sonya's above write-up is quite convincing...

With that said nice reply from you!

Originally posted by Kaploink


3. Obama is not a liberal, he is actually a slightly conservative moderate. Of course he may seem liberal when compared to the current Republican party, but that is more of a reflection on how the Republican party has moved to the right.

Your points are appreciated, and valid to a degree...

But regarding number 3 above, did you have a V8 today? A little OT joke!! I'll agree to disagree...in my book he's left of where you acknowledge him

Have a great day and thx for contributing!

No they don't. Instead they cast out witches. Wright is guilty of trying to uplift a downtrodden community. Blacks in this country have been treated IMO pretty bad. If a community finds solace and hope in the words of Wright why would anyone bash him for that. And the fact that Obama was at one time a member speaks to his concerns for those that have little to no voice. I have at times attended churches like this and found them to be very uplifting. Are you afraid of being overun?

Witch hunting however is another matter. en.wikipedia.org...

Witches???

Another topic...

Please use U2U to explore that route ok?

Thanks so much...

reply to post by OldThinker


No. Not another topic. When you brought the subject of wright into one of the many questions you posed concerning Obama without weighing that with the religious ferver of the McCain campaign you brouht hypocracy to your own thread.

I doubt the sencerity of your questions. There is a glaring double standard here.