Self Mutilation: Self Injury Disorder

I was not at all surprised by the final outcome of the thread below, and I think many other people were very suspicious of the whole story:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, I've been thinking at length about Self Injury disorder. I think it is an appropriate topic for this forum. What is it about human consciousness that would cause someone to override the most basic qualia of our existence (pain avoidance and self preservation) and actually hurt themselves? What is the deal with that?

Somehow, human beings can get into a mode where they wreak severe injury upon their body. They are punishing themselves, and some sort of self-vengeance. One might almost think it was a type of demonic control, of sorts. It is not an uncommon disorder, as one might think. Seems counter-evolutionary, doesn't it?

I personally new a guy, many years ago, who took medication to prevent himself from cutting his arms with knives. He was completely driven to injure himself, exclusively in this one particular manner. He wasn't trying to commit suicide. As with many compulsions, he couldn't really explain why he was doing it.

The medication didn't work very well. His arms were covered with scars and bandages. He became a fairly successful rock guitarist. I didn't keep in touch with him, but I hope he is doing okay after all these years.

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So, to put some context on this, who suffers from this disorder?

self-injury.net...

Check out the above list. In includes, Johnny Depp, Princess Diana, and other surprises.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Buck Division]

I had a problem with this when I was younger.

It was not an "emo" thing where I was just crying out for attention... I in fact didn't want anyone to know, and i'm only talking about it here under condition of internet anominity.

For me it was an outlet for frustration... I would sometimes get so angry I felt like the only way I could stop myself from physically hurting someone else, was to turn it on myself.

It was never a suicidal tendancy, purely a release of frustration.

I think we all "self-injure" ourselves somehow, but not everyone's method is visible. Those who cut/smoke/drink tend to get the most condemnation, because their method is tangible, but I don't think anyone can really throw a stone at them.

Edit: I Hate how all these things are labeled as a "disorder."

[edit on 24-10-2008 by asmeone2]

I guess it depends on the individual case, but i wouild venture a guess and say that self harm is a way of stopping or numbing an emotional pain by causing oneself physical pain. Some may do it for multiple reasons, frustration, stress, the feeling of being hated etc.

Originally posted by asmeone2
I had a problem with this when I was younger.

I know it may be tough to talk about. I am building a hypothesis here, and I have one question:

Would you consider yourself to be fairly successful?

My basic idea here is that this actually is a disorder (sorry -- I know you don't like that word, but everyone has disorders of some sort or another, be it eating, smoking, drinking, etc.)

My guess is that it has to do with self-denial in the extreme, which is absolutely a survival mechanism. Hence, I bet you actually are pretty successful at what you do. You are probably a high achiever.

Am I correct, or completely wrong?

Originally posted by enduser
I guess it depends on the individual case, but i wouild venture a guess and say that self harm is a way of stopping or numbing an emotional pain by causing oneself physical pain. Some may do it for multiple reasons, frustration, stress, the feeling of being hated etc.

You may be right. But I don't think it is necessarily a PAIN that is being confronted, blocking it with physical pain.

For example, this guy I knew, who I mentioned earlier, would cut himself when he really got excited about something. I think it has to to with emotional intensity, including pain, but not necessarily an unpleasant emotion at all.

reply to post by Buck Division


Im really only going by my own experiences with someone that used to self harm; i was going to mention that some people get off on pain, just take kinky sex, i dare not wonder how kinky that can get, but you know what i mean.

Perhaps the guy you mentioned associates excitement with pain or something, god only knows but its not the self harming i know of. Either way, its a very worrying thing having someone you know, willing to cut themselves. I cant imagine how parents feel when they try to cope with such things. Its also quite shocking how people react to finding out someone self harms, they can either be very nasty about it (and encourage you to hurt yourself), or they can be too protective of you. Or you get the people that give you the cold shoulder as if you are some mutant, all in all a very sad state of affairs.

I know it may be tough to talk about. I am building a hypothesis here, and I have one question:

Would you consider yourself to be fairly successful?....

My guess is that it has to do with self-denial in the extreme, which is absolutely a survival mechanism. Hence, I bet you actually are pretty successful at what you do. You are probably a high achiever.

Am I correct, or completely wrong?

I'm confused by what you're asking:

Do I consider myself successful at life, or sucessful at "beating" the disorder?

I've not yet accomplished anything in my life that we would consider substantial... but that's because I'm young.

I've made some pretty bad decisions, and been in some tight spots, between now and then. So I had interspersed moments of being not successful at all, not even trying to be sucessful.

But I would consider myself sucessful in beating the "disorder*"

I haven't self-injured in probably 3 years. I've recognized better ways to cope with it, primarily that I shouldn't be so afraid to hurt someoen else's feelings or look foolish that negatively effects me. Most of all I recognized that it was a choice to self injure* and that it was up to me to stop.

*I want to clarify. I do not think that self-injury, addictions, and eating disorders constitute disorders because the sufferer has chosen to engage in the behavior. There might be a point where he can't help himself any more but it was still his own actions that led him into his "disorder." IMO a true disorder is something that is entriely dependant on a malfunction of physicological processes, not a pattern of behavior. (And yes there might be a few people who are led into a deepr addiction by genetics--but they are by far the minority.)

I have never cut. But I have known cutters. The ones I knew did in fact cut to relieve the emotional pain they were suffering. It had the same affect as one drinking or doing drugs in order to relieve the pain 'inside' that they felt.

Other then that...some are not sensitive to pain, thus the reason people can get tattoos and piercings. I have both and can easily tolerate both. So, because of this, I can easily understand how that crazy woman cut a B into her face. To many, it just doesnt hurt that bad.


EDITED to add: I do not for one moment believe that crazy girl is a "cutter". She has her own issues and that is "i need attention".

[edit on 10/24/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Consider the case of this girl, who apparently has admitted now to carving a "B" on to her face. What could be her motive? We might easily attribute this to something like racism, desire for attention, or other things.

But the fact is, she committed this painful act (and may very likely have a slight "B" shaped scar on her cheek, for the rest of her life because of that decision); she committed this self harm during a period of time that she appears to be successful -- actively engaged in an exciting campaign, in a different city, meeting with new friends. Life was probably pretty good for her. She didn't need attention, and probably wasn't in any real mental anguish.

For those who are trying to dismiss this as a failed dirty political trick, it doesn't add up to me at all.

I suspect that she probably cut herself on some very intense, momentary impulse, and then contrived the details of the story later. It couldn't have seemed like a "good idea" to do that, to most people, obviously. But in her case, she had entered into some alternate consciousness, where pain and lasting consequence didn't matter. It was something she was driven to do, to hurt herself. For some incomprehensible reason.

She could have done a million other things to make a strong and legitimate political point. Instead, she selected self-injury.

At the moment she was scratching this "B" on her face, it must have seemed an utterly wonderous experience to her.

We don't know the facts, naturally. But I bet I am right-on here.

reply to post by Buck Division

But the fact is, she committed this painful act (and may very likely have a slight "B" shaped scar on her cheek, for the rest of her life because of that decision); she committed this self harm during a period of time that she appears to be successful -- actively engaged in an exciting campaign, in a different city, meeting with new friends. Life was probably pretty good for her. She didn't need attention, and probably wasn't in any real mental anguish.

Maybe it was not painful to her. Everyone's tollerance level is different.

And just because someone's life appears to be "perfect" "going great", etc. does not mean they are happy stable individuals.

Obviously she has some issues and was in dire need of attention. This is my take on it.

I used to do this, and i was surprised that i found others did this drastic thing to my self. Like i say i went pretty far, in doing what i did to myself, and i was surprised to see others did this too.

I Have stopped it, about 5 years ago, and now i am 33 do not need to do it anymore. Now i look back, it was sick in a way, but like that saying goes.

"there is a method to the madness".

I was doing it for personal reasons, and once i talked out loud about it, did not want to do it anymore.

One thing i have found, is that i do not trust any history books today, written about anyones life or who they really where. I know from my own life how rubbish people are at judging others, because they always judge them from themselves.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Would you consider yourself to be fairly successful?....

I'm confused by what you're asking:

I mean, would you consider yourself fairly successful in life? Are you a good student? Are you a good artist? Good at your job? Anything like that.

What I am thinking is that a real compulsion (and I don't mean like eating too much, or making some risky decisions) is generally some survival mechanism that is BROKEN. That is my hypothesis.

For example, if you have an eating compulsion, you are going to eat too much, beyond the point that makes any sense.

In the case of self-injury, I think it has to do with a more obscure survival mechanism, which is self-denial. You are denying your body. You have to do that, or you would never get out of bed! Self denial to a moderate extent, is very good!

But if something breaks, and you start separating yourself from your body too much, you might get into a mode where you are purposely injuring yourself. Athletes do this by over-exercising -- it can be a compulsion. This classic self-injury goes even further. Just like there is no reason to continue eating, and you don't want to eat, you will continue. Just like drinking and smoking and doing drugs and washing your hands raw.

I've not yet accomplished anything in my life that we would consider substantial... but that's because I'm young.

Yeah. I realize my problem here. If you are one of those people who really are into self-denial and postponed gratification, it will be very hard to admit you are successful, even if you actually are just that. You wouldn't permit yourself to admit that you are doing well.

It is a problem in testing my hypothesis.

I really appreciate your comments, Asmeon. I am still thinking about what you said.

[edit on 24-10-2008 by Buck Division]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Buck Division

 

Obviously she has some issues and was in dire need of attention. This is my take on it.

Obviously right. She needs attention from a professional. She has issues. She is not stable. I'm glad you added that, because I'm getting a bit to clinical here trying to figure this out.

Okay I see what you mean more now, Buck.

I would say that I have things that I am very good at, but I have not used them for sucess yet.

For instance I am a very good writer and I am finishing up my first novel, but it is not published yet. No one else has even read it. There for I would not consider it a "success" but I am working hard to make it one.

Remember that every addiction is in its own way a survival mechanism. That instinct is not turned off, just distorted:

An over-eater gets fat intentionally, to "hide" beneath her fat.
An anorexic stops eating so she will "dissappear," and not be subjected to negative criticism.
An alcoholic drinks to protect himself from bad memories.

Every addiction, even cutting, is a selfish thing. No matter how much a person has been hurt, his pain is never so important that it gives him the right to upset the lives of the people around them, and in many cases cause them to feel just as much, if not more pain than what eventually drove that person to the addiction.

By the way I don't think the "B" lady was a cutter in the sense we are talking about here, it sounds like she was a narcisist who cut herself to make a specific point.

reply to post by Buck Division

Somehow, human beings can get into a mode where they wreak severe injury upon their body. They are punishing themselves, and some sort of self-vengeance. One might almost think it was a type of demonic control, of sorts. It is not an uncommon disorder, as one might think. Seems counter-evolutionary, doesn't it?

You really should have done a little research about S.I'ers (S.I'ers = Self Inflicted Injury Persons/People) before you posted. The above is just pure drivel and couldn't be farther off base.

I really resent it when someone opens up a sensitive topic and then slops out trash like the above (in quotes).

It's extremely difficult to educate people about Self Inflicted Injury.
Ignorant demeaning shock value like words left flopping about in conjunction with the topic makes it nearly impossible!



If you don't know about something, or you're curious, or have questions why not just ASK - but BEFORE you post derogatory harmful remarks! I mean why open up your mouth about something and condemn it so when you have not one idea what you’re talking about?

Do you know the harm that's caused by words (like you wrote) when used in reference to SI behavior?

Punishing themselves? Self Vengeance?
That just makes me so piping mad I could spit.
It’s NOTHING like that - NOTHING!

Demonic control?
You know, if someone could get banned for absolute clap trap believe me you'd be outt’a here.

Counter-evolutionary?
You have not ONE CLUE do you!

Forget it, I’m coming back to this later.
This kind of ignorance nauseates me.

And I don’t want to hear one word about Decorum!
After the trash you posted I was mighty kind in how I worded my reply!

...taps...


[edit on 24-10-2008 by silo13]

Originally posted by asmeone2
An over-eater gets fat intentionally, to "hide" beneath her fat.
An anorexic stops eating so she will "dissappear," and not be subjected to negative criticism.
An alcoholic drinks to protect himself from bad memories.

Ok, while I generally agree with most of the comments on this thread, we do need to admit there can be multiple reasons for and form of "disorder". I had an eating disorder in my mid-late 20's, I didn't want to "disappear", just at the time I felt like my life was spinning out of control and the nature of my eating was something that I could control.
Other things that were quite unpleasant - I was trying to put into perspective and could to a degree try to rationalise by controlling my eating. This was a pretty difficult time for me, but most humans are pretty complex individuals, with different reasonings and motivations... I controlled my eating (unhealthily) for some reasons personal to me, they may well be different to someone else's.

I think this girl would benefit from some sort of counselling.

Originally posted by jokei

Originally posted by asmeone2
An over-eater gets fat intentionally, to "hide" beneath her fat.
An anorexic stops eating so she will "dissappear," and not be subjected to negative criticism.
An alcoholic drinks to protect himself from bad memories.

Ok, while I generally agree with most of the comments on this thread, we do need to admit there can be multiple reasons for and form of "disorder".

That was no means an inclusive list and I didn't claim it was such. I was just giving examples of how disorders can be used as survival mechanisms--even your examples show that.

Agreed, I just wanted to make a clarification and with that clarification, I'd now like to state that I do think there is the potential for people to carry out self-harm (in some form) for the sole purpose of gaining attention. I think it is uncommon for this to be the case, but I do believe it happens.

I wouldn't wish to specifically address the case of the "B" girl, I'm not a qualified professional, I think she'd need to see one though.

When I was 16/17years I cut myself to relieve emotional pain. I hid the scars with leather shoelaces on my wrists. I stopped when I accidentally went to far and had to search medical aid. I felt so ashamed that I never dit it again.

It made me decide to go to university and get a degree in psychology which I did. Unfortunateley it appeared that science didn't have the answers either. I come from a warm nest, no childhood traumas or anything.

Later I went to work with "borderline personalities" in a psychiatric prison ward. Inflicting physical harm on yourself is considered to be a symptom of the borderline personality disorder. What I didn't expect was the fact that it happens to men also. In psychiatric textbooks they usually state that men acts agressive towards their surroundings while women intend to direct agression to themselves.

I do admit I found it very shocking to see young men banging their heads against the door until bleeding heavily. Or sticking their arms between steel doors and slam the door. Medication often didn't help them.

There are degrees in the amount of pain people inflict on themselves. In my case it was mildly, just until I felt something. For others it seemed to be like an addiction. I had this patient who had stuck a complete fork under the skin of her leg. She kept it hidden for 5 days and got a very nasty infection. Years later she killed herself.

So I agree this can be a very serious disorder. But for me personally: I am in my thirties now and I have never felt the urge to do it again. I did however take a couple of tattoos in my twenties