Do not worship the Cruxifix

I was reading the Bible and I noticed that the children of Israel were plagued many times over for what particularly? Worshipping idols and images. Happens constantly throughout the Book.

Then, I came across this in Jeremiah which is a book of prophecy:

Jeremiah 10

1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says:

"Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good."

biblegateway.com...

To me, he is clearly speaking of the cross with Jesus on it, which is prophesy b/c Jesus hadn't come into the world yet. Why do people continue to disobey God's word?

Colonel

I just made a note.

We agree.

Finally...we agree on one thing eh? I think this calls for a round of drinks!

I think that people disobey because they don't bother to read the Bible and claim that they are holy at the same time. I have debated with others in the real world and I was treated like a heretic (surprised?).

Colonel
That is a nice section of Jeremiah.
The word worship means give just due.

to me, colonel, it seems that it is talking about idols in other religions. Summary: Even tough people are controled by thease idols, you don't have to fear.

it is saying that thease idols are merely physical things, eith no spiritual power.

Originally posted by Colonel
I think that people disobey because they don't bother to read the Bible and claim that they are holy at the same time.

Okay, we agree again.

Stop it...I'm getting scared.

I got into this discussion with a person and pointed out just this fact. Also praying to Saints, Mary, etc.. What they said was that that is not worship. I don't get it then. Praying before these altars, with candles, idols, for a lack of a better word, crusifixes, etc. If this isn't worship what is?

i agree

some people have the word god on there license plate
or a plastic jesus on there dashboard

they just have theese things to make it known to others of there piety

but if you have a picture of jesus or holy person and dont display for the world to see and it inspires you to have more devotion for your creator...i dont consider it idolism

idolism to me is when you spend more time daily thinking or concentrating on wordly things like your
car
stereo
money
house
wife
kids
jewelry
etc ...... instead of god....keeping god uppermost in your mind through out your day while still acting out your part in this drama he has created is the key...

Being in the world and not of the world while keeping god uppermost in your mind destroys all idols

idols can be anything of the material world that you spend more time and give more creedence to on a daily basis than the infinite creator

What I meant Watcher was worshiping these things in a RELIGIOUS sense. As a part of a rite.

i understand intrepid
i wasnt adressing what i typed to you though
i agree with you in a sense...

i just dont have a problem with people using a object to
increase there devotion to god if it is god they are loving and devoting themselves to.... i dont think its wrong and if there not .....well its not my agenda its theres and i cant be responsible for what they use theese items for....
some people can not understand god as the infinite stream of divine consciousnes beyond form,name,or quality....there fore in prayer they may need a form to help them on there path....eventually no form is needed

Watcheroftheskies: some people can not understand god as the infinite stream of divine consciousnes beyond form,name,or quality....there fore in prayer they may need a form to help them on there path....eventually no form is needed.

O.K., but isn't this a contradiction about worshiping idols then? This is the point I'm getting stuck on.

Heh... I think the first expression that comes to mind is "Good family values don't include torture devices."

My personal bias aside, idolatry is the root of almost all CHristian practices. WHo do you venerate? Not God, but jesus. You ask intervention from everyone from the Holy Spirit to Mary. The minute you step into a church, what meets you? stained glass windows and fairly often a large cross with jesus on it. What ever happened to humility?

DE

I can�t say that I agree with you. Idolatry is the worship of a physical object as a god. When people of faith hang a cross around their neck or on a wall it�s simply a symbol of their faith, a reminder of what Jesus Christ sacrificed for all of mankind. If you created a golden calf and worshiped it as its own all powerful God separate from Jesus it would be considered Idolatry. It can also be argued that anything that consistently takes you away from your worship of the Lord is idolatry. When we look at the cross or paintings of Jesus it isn�t taking our minds away from God, they are simply symbols of our faith. I continually see people confusing symbology with idolatry. When people of faith get baptized they aren�t worshiping the �water God�, they are worshiping Jesus by this symbolic act of faith.

intrepid
you may need to go back to my first addition to this thread to see where my definition of idol worship stands

it is in worldly things more that you concentrate on more and give more time to than rather than god on a daily basis

an idol could be your new bmw......or a plastic jesus on your dash....could be ....it depends on how its used

to me idols are those things displayed outright to others to show there piety
like a cross around your neck....

That is my definition....it wont be everyones though and im o.k. with that

god can take any form or he can be beyond form

he could appear as a burning bush......
god is in the world not of the world

I don't pretend to have all the answers, so I probably won't be able to answer many criticisms that you may have for me after I post this.

That being said, let me try to give you my take on the Crucifix and praying to Mary/Saints. About the Crucifix/idol deal, to me I am seeing God when I look at Jesus on the cross. Jesus is God in his human form, he is part of God, and for that reason I see no problem with worshipping Jesus. Jesus and God go hand in hand. If I was worshipping some kind of pink statue of a frog and calling it Sally, then there would be a problem. I see nothing wrong with worshipping the image of Jesus who is the image of God.

As for the praying to Mary and the saints deal, I don't know if I'll be able to give a great answer for this one. The way I (and many others) see it is that we are asking for intervention from God through Mary or whatever saint we pray to. I am not worshipping Mary, or St. Anthony, I'm trying to talk to them to get divine help from God through their saintliness. I know it's not a good answer, but religion/spirituality is a hard thing to put into terms of concreteness.

And about wearing crosses on necklaces, I see no problem with that if you do it in the right way. Wearing a huge silver crucifix all bling blinged up with shiny diamonds and a huge chain is not wearing the cross correctly. Wearing a thin, modest gold chain with a small crucifix under your clothes and not showing it off is a good way to wear it. To me, it's a sense of closeness to the Lord, it's not trying to show off my religion to everybody.

I agree that it's not great when people display God on their bumper stickers or have huge gaudy statues of Mary or Jesus in their front yard. But having a love of God and bringing a personal closeness to Him through a small gold crucifix is fine in my eyes.

I hope I could answer some questions, and again I dont pretend to have all of them. This is merely the way I look at these things, I'm not an expert by any means.

The cross is a sign.


read



Numbers 21:8



peace

Originally posted by kinglizard
I can�t say that I agree with you. Idolatry is the worship of a physical object as a god. When people of faith hang a cross around their neck or on a wall it�s simply a symbol of their faith, a reminder of what Jesus Christ sacrificed for all of mankind. If you created a golden calf and worshiped it as its own all powerful God separate from Jesus it would be considered Idolatry. It can also be argued that anything that consistently takes you away from your worship of the Lord is idolatry. When we look at the cross or paintings of Jesus it isn�t taking our minds away from God, they are simply symbols of our faith. I continually see people confusing symbology with idolatry. When people of faith get baptized they aren�t worshiping the �water God�, they are worshiping Jesus by this symbolic act of faith.

Idol - 2. An image of a divinity; a representation or symbol of a deity or any other being or thing, made or used as an object of worship; a similitude of a false god.

That is from www.dictionary.com...

Idols were not the actual gods themselves. They were representations of that god which acted as a medium through which they could worship. Is not the same thing done with many of today's Christian artifacts? It seems to be that many people use objects in Christianity in the same way that people used idols to worship false gods. It is a medium through which they can worship God or Jesus. Since there is no way for you to know what Jesus looked like, many people must turn to these objects to provide realistic representation. Whether this is right or wrong, I'm not to say.

Originally posted by meddled
Idol - 2. An image of a divinity; a representation or symbol of a deity or any other being or thing, made or used as an object of worship; a similitude of a false god.

That is from www.dictionary.com...

Idols were not the actual gods themselves. They were representations of that god which acted as a medium through which they could worship. Is not the same thing done with many of today's Christian artifacts? It seems to be that many people use objects in Christianity in the same way that people used idols to worship false gods. It is a medium through which they can worship God or Jesus. Since there is no way for you to know what Jesus looked like, many people must turn to these objects to provide realistic representation. Whether this is right or wrong, I'm not to say.

Don�t confuse an Idol with Idolatry. They are different, an idol is a representation or symbol of an object of worship or a likeness of something. Idolatry is the worship of that physical object as a god.

Joshua 24

23 "Now then," said Joshua, "throw away the foreign gods that are among you and yield your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel."


Idolatry the bible speaks of is more than just an object; it is the worship of another god.

The dictionary defines the word:

Main Entry: idol
Pronunciation: 'I-d&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French idole, from Late Latin idolum, from Greek eidOlon image, idol; akin to Greek eidos form -- more at IDYLL
1 : a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god
2 a : a likeness of something


Main Entry: idolatry
Pronunciation: -trE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tries
1: the worship of a physical object as a god


So it�s deeper than the worship of an object, it is the worship and allegiance to another god.


Genesis 31

19 When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father's household gods.