US pilot ordered to shoot down UFO over Norwich

Originally posted by Phage

My source is Torres. The pilot involved. He and Roberson, the other pilot were with the 406th, flying North American F-86D's.

You really should read the report.

NO your source is the writer who wrote Torres account there is no direct quote from the pilot specifying which weapons, its the article writer who states the rocket type, probably checked it on wiki and used the specs of the USAF F86.

At the end of the day this is all sidetracking, it makes no difference what the rockets were.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by silver6ix]

Originally posted by silver6ix

NO your source is the writer who wrote Torres account there is no direct quote from the pilot specifying which weapons, its the article writer who states the rocket type, probably checked it on wiki and used the specs of the USAF F86.

At the end of the day this is all sidetracking, it makes no difference what the rockets were.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by silver6ix]

Please look again. The description of the armament (int the ufocasebook account) is within the quoted account of Torres.

In the MOD report (as well as the other account), Torres says he was in the 406th. The 406 flew North American F-86D's from 1954 until they left Manston in 1958. They did not fly C-47's.

Normally, I would agree that a detail like this is not overly important. But in this case your insistence on remaining ignorant in spite of being told several times that you are incorrect, casts doubt on your ability to reasonably consider the validity of possible explanations. It also casts doubt on the other authoritative statements you have made.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Phage]

I saw this on skynews, they lost the transmission and the newsreporter said, it could be the UFOs shutting us down as a tongue and cheek comment but I thought the same but they have cut that out now I believe from the original uploaded in the uploads.



news.sky.com...

reply to post by Phage



You are starting to get rude for someone who cant get his facts right.

Its not within the "quoted" account at all.

Why do you have to be so pedantic when you arent even readin your own facts properly. Its NOT quoted, READ.

I used my flashlight, still trying to fly and watch my radar. To put it quite candidly I felt very much like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest."
F-86D 52-10012 of 514th FIS, Manston. The smoke trails indicate
that this aircraft has just fired a salvo of Mighty Mouse
rockets, and is flying through their wake. Note that the rocket
tray is already closed. Visible below the right wing is one of
the scoring cine cameras. (Roberson))
"The authentication was valid, and I selected 24 rockets to
salvo."

I suggest the next time you want to throw your toys at me over something you check your own information. Its OUTSIDE of quoted information and was writter by the WRITER.

reply to post by silver6ix


Earlier, you said, "The planes were originally flying an unarmed traing exercise when they were ordered to land and equip with live rounds".

Can you point-out in Torres' story where he said this?

Nevermind. Roberson said they were training and brought in. But he was trained to forget things.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by IAttackPeople]

reply to post by silver6ix


You are correct and please accept my apologies for my error. I reread the article more carefully. The section that you quote appears to be referring to a photograph that isn't present. I wasn't referring that that portion. The portion I was referring to is later in the article and also does not appear to be part of the narrative but was inserted by the author in the midst of it.

In comparing the two accounts in the article I don't see how the two pilots could have been talking about the same thing. Roberson says they were in flight when they were told to contact CGI who had them land at Bentwaters in order to arm. Torres says that they were on alert and scrambled from Manston. These do not seem to be "minor" discrepancies.

But in any case the article does state that both pilots were with the 406th as does Torres' report

The 406th FIW had committed to Met [Metropolitan] Sector (RAF) to have F-86Ds stand alert as an operational requirement. The date was May 20, 1957, and our squadrons were considered combat qualified when they committed us to the operational requirement.

Apparently both Torres and Roberson were both in the 514th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, one of three squadrons which made up the 406th:

This particular night the 514th Fighter Interceptor Squadron [FIS] had the alert duty. Two F-86Ds were on 5-minute alert at the end of the runway at RAF Station Manston awaiting the signal to scramble.

But one last time. The 406th flew F-86D's, which carried 2.75 inch Mickey Mouse rockets.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Phage]

Yahoo video:

cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com...

reply to post by Phage


Apology accepted, we are all amateurs on the subject matter in real terms and we will all no doubt make errors its normal, i made the earlier one on sidewinder payloads also which I accepted.

On the planes. The 406 were involved in the modfication program you can check that if you wish, when they left Martson in 1958 all of their planes had been upgraded to F86FE. The point only being whether the ones that were being flown were modified or ones to be modified which doesnt really make a difference to the subject, but im not inventing it, thats a true fact by the time they left in 1958 the whole squardon was flying F86FE upgraded planes which the RAF modified for the USAF.




[edit on 21-10-2008 by silver6ix]

reply to post by silver6ix


I hate to belabor the point but I can't help it. I'm a bit of a jet nut. I can't find any reference to an F-86FE. Can you point me somewhere?

According to this Source, the 406th began replacing its F-86F's (bomber) with F-86D's (interceptor) in 1954. The 406th was deactivated while still at Manston, it's three squadrons still flying F-86D's.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Please look again. The description of the armament (int the ufocasebook account) is within the quoted account of Torres.

Even when you are wrong, Phage, you are still right. Torres is clear on the type of craft he was flying, and the types of weaponry he was using, despite Silver6ix's attempts to twist the story to fit his conclusions.

Within his testimony, Torres says he was flying a F-86D and that he selected a salvo of twenty-four rockets. All sources for the specs of a F-86D say it carried twenty-four Mickey Mouse rockets. It's funny Silver keeps trying to insert things into the narrative that just are not there.

Originally posted by Phage
Normally, I would agree that a detail like this is not overly important. But in this case your insistence on remaining ignorant in spite of being told several times that you are incorrect, casts doubt on your ability to reasonably consider the validity of possible explanations. It also casts doubt on the other authoritative statements you have made.

Much like he is jumping through hoops to insist that the Soviet Union never probed British air-defenses, or that the incident did not happen over the North Sea, when from Torres' testimony, it could not be more clear this was the case. Silver is not a rational or reasonable actor.

reply to post by Phage



Im confusing things further the reclassification was actually F86 E(M), which I presume means modified.

Now im looking the information is conflicting, I can see what you stated that they had F86D at the time of their termination but, theres also:

The F-86D began to arrive and the F-86F's were transferred to other USAFE squadrons and NATO countries. In addition, the 512th FBS was transferred to Soesterberg Air Base, Netherlands with their F-86Fs.

The 512th were a part of the 406th at that time

Also the F86 D seems to have been at Shepherds Grove, not Manston with the rest of the 406th, and to confuse matters futher they were later redesignated as the 512th (who had been with the 406th and left with F96F planes)

In June F-86D's arrived from CONUS to equip the 87th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron which was transferred to the 406th from the 81st FBW assigned to RAF Shepherds Grove. The 87th FIS, however, physically remained at Shepherds Grove, but was under the organizational command of the 406th at Manston. In September 1955, the 87th was redesignated the 512th FIS

It then goes on to say the F86D was deactivated but doesnt actually clarify what the other squads were flying.

The F-86D's were eventually withdrawn from Europe in 1961, and the 512th, 513th and 514th were deactivated.

So that probably means the 406th were flying F86D since they changed from F86F to F86D. Anyway, ill concede the point and accept the F86D as the standard model. Dont blame me for the confusion, in digging up the information but it does seem to get a bit confused in there.

Anyway that would be what the plane looked like, the canadian F4 model in camo colours. The F86E (M) which was once the F4.

www.aikensairplanes.com...

reply to post by SaviorComplex


You I just wont bother answering further, not worth it.