Middle America Nationalism

The problem comes from the very fact that "we the people" have committed treason.

We have allowed OUR Republic and OUR Constitutional Rights AND obligations to be usurped by apathy, laziness, and ignorance. Instead of having an actual system of voting, in which the U.S should be the leader and showing the world how it is done, we have 50-60 percent participation rate in our elections when some countries have 80-90 percent. And those people have to walk miles to get to their polling places.

We have also let the far left nut jobs and the far right nut jobs control the political discourse of our country where I dare say 70 percent of the American population falls in the center. Who speaks for us. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It is time for the center to make some noise!

One last thing that shows the world how immature and far apart our government has become. Whenever we see a "State of the Union" speech or the President adressing Congress you have the Dems on one side and the Reps on the other. Of course they will never talk to each other unless forced. Just solve this by having assigned seating just like in elementary school. Repub-Dem-Repub-Dem. If they want to act like children, treat them like children.

I really dont know where I went off track, but until we find some common ground we are doomed to this crap.

We the people, that are in the center are hated by both extremes. Try to talk to anyone that is vocal about their opinions and you will almost always find an extremist..... This always seems to me to be more so with conservative Christian Fundamentalist, and isn't at all any different than the inability to think and reason rationally, than any other fundamentalist zealots of any other faith. .... They, IMO, are the reason that there should be a division of church and state, as their belief system doesn't allow them the ability to think and reason realistically.

Hyper;

I agree completely. I personally think that middle america should have their own party, the American Party. Let the other 2 fall into the sinkholes that line our roads while they sit and yell at each other.

The Bush administration is involved with human, environmental, economic and political atrocities, they base their decisions almost purely on profit. If that's patriotic maybe it's better not to be patriotic.

reply to post by capgrup


I think that if that was to ever happen the candidates that I would like to see on the same ticket for the Free Thinkers Party would be, Dr. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.... Does capgrup have to do with Civil Action Platoon?

Right On Southern Guardian.

As someone who lived through the late 60s and early 70s protesting against the Viet Nam War, We heard "America, Love It or Leave It" from the conservatives. So little has changed.

And I would like to know what the heck is so bad about Socialism! It is not a four letter word. Socialism, Socialism, Socialism! There, I shout it out. Does it hurt or what? As a dual citizen living in Canada, with family in the States, I do not understand this demonizing of the word or the fear of the practice.

Canada has Socialized Medicine and contrary to what you may have heard, rich and poor, we like it, it works well, and the vast majority insist upon it.

In countries such as Canada, Sweden, France there are non-partisan auditors built into government, who freely tell the public exactly what money is raised through taxes and what is done with it. When there is waste, we find out and call the elected representatives to task on it. Maybe that is the difference in the USA? You have so little trust in the government to use tax dollars responsibly.

Here in Canada, we don't mind paying taxes, providing the money is being spent responsibly. We also have a strong sense of community which wants our government to help those in need, feed the hungry, house the homeless, provide quality education, care for the elderly, and heal the sick. We want an adequate and well serviced infrastructure. We are a country of only 35 million people or so and yes we get taxed. That is OK! When the government was shown to have spent a few mil on non-tendered ad contracts with friends and wasted millions on a failed gun registry, we turfed them out.

Why are Americans so freaked out by Socialism? You now have Socialism for the wealthy! with the bail outs. Do half of the Americans over 35 even have a 401K? As the economy continues to tank, Socialism may start to look pretty good to a majority of Americans, too.

Jim Marr, please relax. Socialism is not evil.



[edit on 19-10-2008 by Isispriest]

The problem is the "neo cons" hi jacked the Republican party.
I am no longer a republican because of these scumbags.
I consider myself conservative, but the neo con policy is far from conservative. Their whole strategy is to cry outrage and unpatriotism when you question one of their policies.
It is amazing how far from conservative the "neo con" agenda is and how once level headed republicans fall on their knees for them and worship them!

Wow, the OP makes a lot of points. I'm not taking any side here, but I do take issue with the whole "oil war" thing. While Iraq's oil was a factor in our decision to invade, I think the notion that we are somehow stealing oil from Iraq is ridiculous.

The oil component of our decision was based on stabilizing the region, not stealing oil. Hmmm, 5 years after liberating this country, whose citizens btw are now free to openly criticize the U.S., the price of oil here in the U.S. is at all-time highs.

Had we not invaded, the price of oil would be even higher, garnering enormously HUGE profits for the oil companies. So the whole "oil war" notion invalidates its own self anyway. I have one question. Where is all this supposed oil we stole?

Answer: We didn't steal any oil from Iraq. If we had, we would be BATHING in oil now, and gasoline would be so cheap you couldn't give it away.

Instead, Iraq just signed a multi-billion dollar oil deal with the Chinese. If our aims were anything other than our stated intentions, then, several things would have to line up to justify our letting China in on the deal. The evil oil barons, for example, would have to be pulling the strings of the Chinese leadership, manipulating them into funneling all oil profits into secret slush funds for elite oil CEOs, who of course have no accountability whatsoever to stockholders, so they can further tighten the leash on not only 1.3 billion Chinese, but also the entire rest of the world.

If this was an "oil war," the entire world would already have been enslavened because the evil oil tycoons would have had plenty of time to execute their evil plan in the 5 years since our victory. Why, we should all have been arrested and sent in chains to the nearest asteroid by now, spending the rest of our lives in slavery toiling away 20 hours a day pounding stone with sledgehammers.

I'm sick of these anti-Americans who spout anti-American nonsense and then whine and cry when someone calls them what they are, which is, anti-American. Certainly they have a right to do so, but if what they say is true, then, by their own logic, it follows that they wouldn't have any free-speech rights either and we wouldn't be reading this now.

We went into Iraq, took down a totalitarian regime that was harboring al-Qaeda, freed the citizens of that country, and then enable the populace to hold free elections. Its that simple.

Small minded critics charge that al-Qeada was never in Iraq to begin with. Well, these are the same critics who scream when we lose brave men and women to terrorist bombings, al-Qaeda or otherwise, within the borders of Iraq.

They say al-Qaeda is no longer a threat in Iraq, and that we should leave. Damn straight they are not a threat in Iraq, and certainly not here in the U.S. anymore! al-Qeada is holed up now in the Pakistani hills, unable to move for the most part. We have them pinned there, and if we leave Iraq prematurly, then al-Qeada will move right back in, and proliferate, unchecked throughout the region.

I'm a conspiracist, btw. Secret Societies, you bet! But these power brokers are not so shallow as to invade a country, conquer it, and build a hidden pipeline to some secret underground storage facility that is meant to serve their evil plans. "Hey guys! Lets do an oil war!!!!" I can just hear it now. This is not worthy of a conspiracy theory, but rather, it lends itself better to script for a bad cartoon.

America is the greatest force for good that the world has ever seen. Capitalism and Democracy beat every other system ever witnessed in the history of this planet. Anarchy, Barbarism, Feudalism, Slavery, Socialism, Communism, Marxism, and many other systems have all been proven to be faulty to the core.

Until we find a better system, lets stick with what we know works best, and hold our nose while we tolerate and even encourage the less-appreciative people to vent their criticisms

You make a very good point here.As for me I guess I'm a cat of a different stripe.I have conservitive views on some things and liberal views on others.
The only people I call un-american or unpatriotic are people like McCain or Obama.A few more?Pelosi Bush,Reid,O'Connell.These people have sworn an oath to the constitution then turned around and voted to damage it.The constitution is the foundation of this country.If you continually damage the foundation of your house it won't last long before your house falls over.If we allow these people to keep damaging our constitution our country will indeed fall also.It makes no difference whether a democrat or republican does the damage.We allow the federal reserve bank to lead our government by the nose
When the fed wants something they get it whether the people want it or not,whether the constitution gets damaged or not.The true un-americans are in our government.

reply to post by southern_Guardian


Wow! Awesome OP! I can already see this thread will descend into an argument about party politics.. so beyond the kudos, I refuse to say more.

Dave

Originally posted by CVTman


I'm sick of these anti-Americans who spout anti-American nonsense and then whine and cry when someone calls them what they are, which is, anti-American. Certainly they have a right to do so, but if what they say is true, then, by their own logic, it follows that they wouldn't have any free-speech rights either and we wouldn't be reading this now.

Wow so if you are against things like the Iraq war a war in which no WMDs were found. Isnt that why we went there? I never heard anything about "stabilizing the region" where did u get this from show me a speech pre war that says we were going in to stabilize. Also tell me how the region wasnt stable before we went in. In fact I feel when we went in THATS when it became unstable. Oil was at $40 a barrel when we went in and it was all the way up to $149.00 a barrel because of the Iraq war. Did Iraq attack us? I could go all day on Iraq but I wont.

So are we to hold America on a pedestal? America is perfect and never does wrong? Holding that point of view does not make good countries it makes tyrants in which according to your very logic our founding fathers would of been considered Anti American or Un Patriotic. I recommend you read up on history and look at tyrannical governments of the past and then compare them to where are country is going today. Youll see a big similarity. You wont though. Youll go on to talk about how I dont know what Im talking about and how people like me ruin this country. But I guess in a free society sheeple like yourself have to exist. It makes things interesting.

reply to post by mybigunit


Show me the stolen oil. Show me a better system. We are not perfect by any means, but where is all that stolen oil? Perhaps you really me to say that other failed systems of government are superior to our Constitutional Republic. In which case, I suggest that you "read up on your history." Otherwise, show me a better system.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by CVTman]

[edit on 19-10-2008 by CVTman]

Originally posted by CVTman
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Show me the stolen oil. Show me a better system. We are not perfect by any means, but where is all that stolen oil? Perhaps you really me to say that other failed systems of government are superior to our Constitutional Republic. In which case, I suggest thatyou"read up on your history. Otherwise, show me a better system.

Did I say we went in to steal oil? I will say that the Iraq war made the bankers, defense industry, and oil companies a lot of money. I dont think I need to show you that its pretty well known.

Now as far as our constitution. Its the greatest document on this earth. But we by far do not live within it. Have you read the constitution lately? The fact is our government gave up the constitution in 1913. Anyone who tries to bring us back to within the constitution gets killed or labeled as a nut. Let me ask you this and Ill ask you because its obvious your an ardent Republican Neo Con type. Has President Bush stayed within his constitutional powers?

reply to post by mybigunit


Show me a better system. Name it.

reply to post by CVTman


The oil factor in Iraq was nothing more than Saddam dropping the american dollar and going to a basket like the Iranians did.It is well enough documented that Saddam had no use for Al-kida.As far as him being a terrorist to his own people there's no denying that.It is a fact.However in my opinion his life was not worth one american soldier.If you want the real reason for the war look at the military industrail complex and the federal reserve bank.Look at the money these vipers and thieves made.The dollar is now however still used for the exchange rate for oil in Iraq.Oh and just a bit of correction for you this is a republic not a democracy.Democracy is something the founders of this country
would never have approved.

Originally posted by CVTman
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Show me a better system. Name it.

Sigh there is no better system. But heres the thing and I guess Ill have to spell it out some more because its obvious reading comprehension is not your strong point. WE NO LONGER LIVE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC!!!!! If you would read history you would see that we lost our Republic status after the civil war. We lost our constitutional status in 1913. Hopefully I can wake people like yourself up to understand this so we can get BACK to what made this country great. But as long as the people on the right and left fight like they do it wont happen. This is what they want. Divide and Conquer as Napoleon says.

reply to post by pooty


I don't doubt that the conspiracy concerning the Federal Reserve. I've been following this for a long time. Yes, check my previous post. We are a Constitutional Republic

Two issues:

Patriotism vs. Nationalism. I agree with the OP that Nationalism is evil and that far too many Americans do not know the difference. Nothing is more patriotic than dissent. I do not, however agree that middle America is the problem. I live in middle America, and believe me, plenty of people here are mad as hell and dissenting their rear ends off! The problem is that the media prefer to portray the brainwashed from either party as being normal, and ignore the majority of people who are trapped between them and have no real option to express their political views. This nation has been hijacked by a corporatist elite who use D. v. R. to divide us.

Republicanism and conservatism. The GOP no longer has any claim to the conservative movement, unless you wish to redefine conservatism as being religious fundamentalist pro-war statism. The closest things to conservatism now are the Libertarian and Constitutionalist parties. I consider myself a conservative, and I would not vote Republican to save my life.

Who is John Galt?

[edit on 19-10-2008 by Grumble]

reply to post by mybigunit


Yes, I agree we would be a better country without the income tax. We had a choice to nominate Micheal Huckabee just this year. Perhaps if enough of us write the McCain campaign, he can be convinced to include the Fair Tax plan as part of his platform.

reply to post by pooty


I'm sorry, but both you and CVTman are wrong about the reason for the Iraq war. We went to war with Iraq because our President had 'Daddy Issues'. All of the supposed 'reasons' that were concocted at the time were just a smokescreen so George Jr. could 'finish' George Sr.'s war! I even remember that an 'unidentified source' within the Bush Administration was quoted a saying that 'General George' had asked his advisors in the 'intelligence' community right after 9/11 if Iraq had anything to do with the attacks. When they told him there was no evidence that Iraq was involved in any way with the attacks of 9/11, he told them to 'find some'. His trigger finger was itchy for Iraq even before he took office.