The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

The DOW jones is currently in freefall.

Originally posted by michael1983l
The DOW jones is currently in freefall.

Yes, but...

www.marketwatch.com...

Gas prices’ 9th daily drop boon for holiday travel

Remember how De Gaul resolved huge demonstrations in 1968?
He let the gasoline to the gas stations. Everybody went to weekend picnic... End of revolution

reply to post by camaro68ss


Thats the thing, the "fix" that they are using to temporarily keep the economy going is having less of an impact every time they do it.
As time goes on, things get that much more scary as measures to hold off this crisis become less and less effective.
What can they do? I dont know, I think about it every day and I just cant see a way out of the situation the world faces.
Some say we are headed for war, but are we? we're in the 21st century, a world war would end us all so whats the point in that?
I like to follow Reinhardt on his site called enterprisecorruption.com and he had something very interesting to say a few months ago.
He said something like boom cycles derive from industrial revolutions such as the information technology revolution, but the problem is what kind of industrial revolution could possibly happen to kick start the economy?
The only thing I can think of is a revolution in energy, but if that doesnt happen then where does it lead us?
The current economic system is completely flawed and needs to change.
The human race faces some serious challenges, ones that we have never faced before, and the scary thing is, WE will live through it.

Regardless of what happens the fact that something HAS to happen is exiting.

The monotony of the facade will be over and plenty of people that have been day dreaming will come crashing down to reality.

I hope you all have a solid understanding of reality because we are all about to get a serious dose of it.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

[..]
The only thing I can think of is a revolution in energy, but if that doesnt happen then where does it lead us?
The current economic system is completely flawed and needs to change...

i think not that a revolution in energy is in the cards..
i think however that the OPEC cartel will be replaced by a N. American energy supplier
as the USA will eventually replace Saudi Arabia as the country with the most oil reserves
coal, natural gas, shale deposits...which the USA will use instead of the Nuclear arsenal
as the leverage to shape world political positions

reply to post by St Udio


That is a quite astute and optimistic prediction however how would the US suddenly become the world leader in energy resources? Annex Iran? And how about China basically owning all rare earths (except what we can try to pilfer out of Afghanistan)? I suppose that could float things along where the US provides energy and China provides materials for production. I just do not see the US position as being as solid for accomplishing this as China's. Don't even get me started with Russia's position.

At the end of the day, the fact does remain that there must be another bubble lest the whole house of cards come tumbling down. Whether that is for long-term real growth (like an industrial revolution, tech revolution, energy revolution) or short term (war on poverty, war on drugs, war on terror, war on different people) only time will tell. The third option is that there is neither (stalemate between forces for a revolution and forces for a war) and then we hit the real deal... a major collapse of everything that leads to both once the world hits bottom. The mega war as all players jockey for position and the great revolutions that will take place during the chaos and massive scramble for survival.

Reinhardt is very smart, and he draws a lot from Martin Armstrong and Martin Armstrong has drawn a lot from Kondratieff. The basis of all of this is there are somewhat predictable patterns to the ebbs and flows of human progress. Just like the tides, the seasons, or anything natural really..

SO. We all agree that there is a phase shift happening... time will tell what is the next door to open for mankind. In reading enough Kondratieff and Armstrong, I think I know and I think many of you have a gut feeling too.

The million dollar question is when.

DAX 6,050.29 -214.09 -3.42%

Bloomberg

Well, the DAX and some other stocks sure took a beating today. I wonder if it will plummet below the psychological mark of 6000 points on monday.

I noticed the jobless figures for the US was released and it was not good news.

That cant be good for business....

The Japan Topix, headed for its lowest close since 1983...

The Topix slid 2.1 percent to 694.22 at 12:40 p.m. in Tokyo, heading for the lowest close since Dec. 2, 1983, and dropping below levels last seen since the global financial crisis following the 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. About 12 stocks fell for each that rose on the measure. The Nikkei 225 Stock Average (NKY) dropped 2 percent to 8,272.00.

“This is a panic selloff,” said Koichi Kurose, chief economist at Resona Bank Ltd., Japan’s fifth-largest lender by market value. “Action from policy makers is the only thing that will calm the market. The market is pricing in a deterioration in the U.S. economy through summer.” www.bloomberg.com...

Get your coffee, its going to be a long election stretch till November.

reply to post by burntheships


and they changed over too the Yeun.

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by burntheships

 

and they changed over too the Yeun.

Rumors...as of yet news.goldseek.com...
Do you have a more recent link to news?

reply to post by burntheships


What a great article! Informative and perceptive:

...Since the Second World War and through the Bretton Woods system to today’s monetary system, the dollar and the U.S., with its power and wealth, has ensured its continued success, sometimes against basic fundamental reasoning –such as the ability of the U.S. to just print dollar to cover its Trade Deficits on an ongoing basis, a sort of Tax on the rest of the world. Indeed, the dollar, with its link to oil, is the tree-trunk of world money with all other currencies acting almost as branches growing out of that tree. The steps being taken by China now is another tree (currently a sapling) growing alongside it and eventually no longer dependent on it. The worry is that this new tree is sapping the old tree of its strength. We are certain that China will do all in its power to ensure it minimizes the influence the U.S. has over its financial system.

The dangerous period for the two trees is when the new sapling is not strong enough to stand alone and the old tree is ailing. This is the time when support is needed for both. That support has to be independent of both for it to give effective support. That support must convince all in the monetary world that it will give enough inherent strength to shore up the weaknesses of both. But at the same time this support must be a common denominator throughout the financial world.

If the transition of power and through changes is smooth, then a new shape to the world’s money will be easily accepted. But in all of man’s history, such transitions have been far from smooth or peaceful; they’ve been marred by confrontation and breakdown and usually both. We see this future for the monetary world in the face of these developments.

With the debt debacles on both sides of the Atlantic, the developed world’s monetary system is vulnerable to such pressures as never before. The monetary system now faces structural pressures that are bound to lead to turmoil and deeper crises, not simply inside nations, but ones that will shake up global foreign exchanges and breed more and more uncertainty. The last few years of financial crises in the developed world will seem tame by comparison...

(Source as above)

In today's world of global financial interdependence China needs the US and the US needs China. It's the ultimate love-hate relationship. In fact in terms of global balance it's worse: China has been stringing the US along for many a year, flashing its eyelids as its gullible suitor showers it with gifts of outsourced production centres and diamonds of technology. While the US has been blinded by what it could get out of China in the short to medium term, if it had used its head instead of its heart it would have been obvious all along what its lover would do once she had filled her pockets. Suddenly the suave young man starts to look the fool; he got what he wanted — but at what cost? What are his heirs going to say, what will they do when they realise he has made an enemy rich at their expense? And oh the humiliation when she turns up on his doorstep, surrounded by lovers, offering to employ him and his family to carry out menial tasks in her palace...

Step back and watch as a once cosy relationship turns into a Shakespearian plot of intrigue and skullduggery.

Originally posted by pause4thought

Step back and watch as a once cosy relationship turns into a Shakespearian plot of intrigue and skullduggery.

Indeed.

I wonder if the move to relocate the majority of U.S. Warships to Asia
is an indication of this?

Panetta: Majority of US warships moving to Asia

The United States will move the majority of its warships to the Asia-Pacific in coming years and keep six aircraft carriers in the region, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said on Saturday, giving the first details of a new U.S. military strategy.

Speaking at an annual security forum in Singapore, Panetta sought to dispel the notion that the shift in U.S. focus to Asia was designed to contain China's emergence as a global power.
today.msnbc.msn.com...

reply to post by burntheships


That's an interesting point.

Not subtle is it? I wonder how Americans would react if this is what they were reading:

China will move the majority of its warships to the north eastern Pacific in coming years and keep six aircraft carriers in the region Minister of National Defence, General Liang Guanglie said on Saturday, giving the first details of a new Chinese military strategy...

It seems we are currently at the point where the lovers are still smiling at each other through clenched teeth:

"...We're not naive about the relationship and neither is China," Panetta told the Shangri-La Dialogue attended by senior civilian and military leaders from about 30 Asia-Pacific nations.

We also both understand that there really is no other alternative but for both of us to engage and to improve our communications and to improve our (military-to-military) relationships," he said. "That's the kind of mature relationship that we ultimately have to have with China."

Er, a relationship is a two-way thing. And if you start to rough your partner up, talk about 'improving communication' soon becomes purely academic.

reply to post by pause4thought




enchore',,,,

Brilliant Piece of Writing,,say,,*****************

"Give us More" ,,the Canadian Public!

Is there Intelligent Writing in this day and Age,,yes i say,,

Peabody ,,yup,,, i would.

Anyone else starting to feel like Germany is just trying to fleece dying systems as best as it can before they leave the Euro?
If it is true that Greeks can't afford to feed their prisoners right now, with zero stockpiles for that purpose, then is more austerity really all that realistic an option or is it more like robbing the downed man?

reply to post by BobAthome


Thank you very much for your very kind support. It has to be said that if I can see what's happening it owes a lot to the folks who post in here.



reply to post by hadriana

Anyone else starting to feel like Germany is just trying to fleece dying systems as best as it can before they leave the Euro?

Asking difficult questions is always a good way to move ahead of the game. Nice going.

I will be honest here. I do not believe this is Germany's attitude. German governments and German business culture have proved exemplary in many ways over several decades. Profligacy and short-termism are anathema.

On the one hand the German people have a genuine strong desire to be a positive influence in Europe. But they believe that the solutions being proposed by France*, among others, to deal with over-indebtedness could eventually lead to run away inflation throughout the Eurozone.

Germany simply does not want to be dragged down by a sinking ship.

If it is true that Greeks can't afford to feed their prisoners right now, with zero stockpiles for that purpose, then is more austerity really all that realistic an option or is it more like robbing the downed man?

There are no easy solutions. If the reports you refer to are true, perhaps we might see international relief efforts coming into play, much as happens elsewhere in the wake of a catastrophe.

As to the second point, Greece cannot pay its debts. It can't even fund the basic functions of government and state, such as schools and hospitals, without ongoing bailouts. Its debts have to be written off. But of course the institutions that hold government bonds, i.e. that leant Greece money, are doing all they can to promote other solutions; and their ace card is that if they don't get paid (whether by Greece or via bailouts,) banks and governments throughout Europe will be in danger of collapse.

As you correctly imply, there comes a point at which austerity is utterly pointless. The Greek people cannot realistically be squeezed further, and are arguably already being squeezed beyond all reason. This does mean there is a logic to the suggestion that European resources as a whole will need to be pooled in order to plug the hole in Greek finances. The problem is: Greece is tiny; Spain and Italy are standing in line not far behind, and no amount of German goodwill could cover their debts. So by refusing to cover Greece's debts, Germany is effectively saying "If we keep a tight budget we will avoid the pointless exercise of trying to plug unpluggable holes".

You are right to imply it looks like 'We just need to look after ourselves'. But in reality what good would it do for Germany to act in such a way they also end up requiring aid?



*Check out Keynesian economics, epitomized by the following:

According to the theory, government spending can be used to increase aggregate demand, thus increasing economic activity, reducing unemployment and deflation. For example, when the unemployment rate is very high, a government can use a dose of expansionary monetary policy.

Keynes argued that the solution to the Great Depression was to stimulate the economy ("inducement to invest") through some combination of two approaches: 1: A reduction in interest rates, and 2: government investment in infrastructure. Investment by government injects income, which results in more spending in the general economy. This in turn stimulates more production and investment involving still more income and spending and so forth. The initial stimulation starts a cascade of events, whose total increase in economic activity is a multiple of the original investment.

(and bear in mind a lot of the government investment would be on the back of borrowed money).

Significant development:

G7 to hold emergency euro zone talks, Spain top concern

TORONTO/BERLIN (Reuters) - Finance chiefs of the Group of Seven leading industrialized powers will hold emergency talks on the euro zone debt crisis on Tuesday in a sign of heightened global alarm about strains in the 17-nation European currency area...

..."The real concern right now is Europe of course - the weakness in some of the banks in Europe, the fact they're undercapitalised, the fact the other European countries in the euro zone have not taken sufficient action yet to address those issues of undercapitalisation of banks and building an adequate firewall," Flaherty told reporters.

The disclosure of the normally confidential teleconference came as European Union paymaster Germany said it was up to Spain, the latest euro zone country in the markets' firing line, to decide if it needed financial assistance, after media reports that Berlin was pressing Madrid to request aid...

Source

There's plenty worth seeing in this report. This is of particular note:

A G7 source, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said there were concerns about the risk of a bank run in Spain, which is struggling to recapitalise nationalised lender Bankia and smaller banks stricken by the collapse of a property bubble.

"There is concern on whether there will be a bank run in Spain that could have repercussions beyond the euro zone," the source told Reuters...

As we all know open discussion of a bank run is a big no-no in political circles, as it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whoever leaked this was naive, to say the least. Bank runs are no laughing matter.

Then there's this:

Madrid plans to issue 1-2 billion euros in 10-year debt on Thursday in a key market test.

Brave people, those Spaniards.

reply to post by pause4thought


I truly love your analysis after the link, you have nailed to the point that it sound "poetic"

Beautiful, just beautiful

reply to post by marg6043


Thanks, marg. Hopefully it adds to the enjoyment.

Now for the Spanish bond auction mentioned above —

There was strong demand for Spanish bonds at an auction on Thursday, which was seen as a key test of the country's ability to raise funds, but it had to pay a higher interest rate.

The rate on the 10-year bonds was 6.044%, up from the 5.743% paid when bonds were last sold in April...

...The head of China's sovereign wealth fund, which invests China's huge reserves around the world, said it was scaling back European investments due to the risk of a eurozone break-up...

Source

Check out the whole article, which has a pretty thorough analysis, including the broader picture.