The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Shanghai Composite 3,296.91 2:21AM ET Down 59.42 (1.77%)
Shanghai Composite 3,284.69 2:25AM ET Down 71.64 (2.13%)
Shanghai Composite 3,269.31 2:28AM ET Down 87.02 (2.59%)

Hang Seng 20,565.46 2:21AM ET Down 333.78 (1.60%)

BSE 30 15,391.84 2:26AM ET Down 122.19 (0.79%)
BSE 30 15,373.24 2:32AM ET Down 140.79 (0.91%)

DJIA FV Futures 9216.26 9231.0 14.74

RBS Posts First-Half Loss After Setting Aside $12.6 Billion for Bad Loans
www.bloomberg.com...

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by stander

What's going on, Rockpuck? Ain't that all crazy?

Crazy?!? Not at all!

Why in the world would I think the Government buying people cars is "crazy." .. I mean, it's only a car, it's not like the Gov is like, I dunno, giving $8,000 to first time home buyers...... oh wait..

Well in that case it just goes to show that $4,500 (plus an additional $3,500 rebate from the corporation .. which is also the Gov) for a new Prius .. I mean, Focus, isn't crazy at all, it's down right sane!

I sent a letter to me Congress critter .. I asked for $10,000 to buy a helicopter. I would fly the helicopter everywhere I went, but I wouldn't be stopping at red lights any more, and I wouldn't idle in traffic. Reducing emissions! It would also take one more little japanese car off the road which obviously clogs the high ways and makes American cars look bad (which is bad for business, since the Gov is the car company in this case!)

Now, I don't want something real fancy or with ultra cool missiles (I'll buy those later, factory totally rapes you on them upfront)


Just sumtin like that.

Something "crazy" stander .. that would be like, I dunno .. the Gov giving me $4,500 towards my education .. or throwing some money at the depleted food pantries.. or F# Stander, how crazy would it be if the Gov actually brought our troops home?!?

Good thing we don't have a crazy government..

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Rockpuck]

:shk:

China Construction Bank to Cut New Loans by 70% as Risks Rise, Zhang Says
www.bloomberg.com...

Shanghai Composite 3,254.65 2:52AM ET Down 101.68 (3.03%)
Shanghai Composite 3,245.27 2:55AM ET Down 111.06 (3.31%)

Hang Seng 20,554.05 2:52AM ET Down 345.19 (1.65%)
BSE 30 15,297.54 2:57AM ET Down 216.49 (1.40%)
Straits Times 2,555.91 3:07AM ET Down 45.59 (1.75%)

DJIA FV Futures 9216.26 9211.0 -5.26

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Rockpuck

Well, if you don't find it crazy to call the step an "emergency measure," then there has to be some justification. I do understand many reasons behind calling 9-1-1, but I consider this "cash for clunkers" call a wrong number -- unless someone explains this to me. What kind of emergency is Bloomberg talking about?

Thanks to all those that have continued to make this the best thread on ATS.

You made the top of the list today.

Great work.

reply to post by stander

The system of freeways was built for cars, and the municipal public transportation wasn't expanding at the rate it used to.

Public transportation and small electric cars with limited range are an easier solution for small island nations like Taiwan, Japan and the UK. There is still nothing better than a supercharged 800 C.I.D. mountain motor to get you where you need to go in the high desert though.

Last big depression the military complex declared world war which finally kicked the global economies into overdrive. This time around I was thinking we might declare war on high energy costs and make a similar huge investment in new infrastructure. We would need to built lots of *safe* nuclear plants and beef up the power grid. At the city level we would make the kind of investments in public transportation that the small island nations are making etc.

There is more profit to be made hoarding heating oil to extort the entire life savings from the public during a cold winter, so I realize my ideas are purely fantasy.

The current MSM spun by the oil companies makes safe nuclear power an oxymoron. The public still thinks in terms of 40 year old three mile island technology. Until desktop fusion goes mainstream big nuclear power plants are still likely to be the alternative solution of choice.

Aaaaah, I guess it's time for some hard cool data . . .


Bill? . . . Hallo? Yes, that’s me again. Can you do me a favor? Look out the window if you see a Bentley in the driveway of Van Horn’s mansion. It belongs to a Wall St. hotshot who got lost here around 3 pm, so I want to make sure that he made it to the town.

Originally posted by stander
I see some detours . . . Or maybe someone lost his way.
That way Mr. Goldman.
You are very welcome. Drive carefully.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8a8b22333819.jpg[/atsimg]

What did you say? Yes, it’s a beige Bentley.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ce155b2ca843.jpg[/atsimg]


Here, in this thread, time ticks faster -- and there is nothing the Stock Exchange Commission can do about it.

reply to post by dizziedame


Appreciative lurkers are a boon.




reply to post by Rockpuck


After asking "What do you say happens to the markets tomorrow?" I had to leave the scene. But coming back I see the responses to the situation have been every bit as thoughtful as I'd hoped. (And ingeniously all-encompassing - covering China, Japan, the UK, etc., on an international level, down to transport on a national and even a local level.)

Tomorrow?? Probably nothing of consequence.

All this chicanery falls under the guise of QE, the fugly part is that the FED isn't being honest with us or the other CBs in the game...

...The "big picture" here is this. Other CBs (read: China) are NOT buying our debt anymore, but the FED is trying to fool the American Public - probably starting with CONgress on down to us - that everything is fine and dandy, we can keep pulling forward the debt & all will be fine.

Well it's NOT fine. Traders have noticed that money is coming out of nowhere to buy stocks, commodities, etc & everyone has been wondering where it's coming from, well now we know - the FED is monetizing the debt to artificially prop the markets through the PDs...

Clearly it is the medium term that is particularly affected. What I what getting at was that all that you say in the above part of your response could surely affect confidence. I mean this is, as you and everyone else have said, a major cat-out-of-the-bag situation.

There was a day when bad news would adversely affect the markets. I suppose we should expect a rally today, though. (!)

Maybe when you pull the wool off people's eyes they get blinded by the light. The collective pupils have got to dilate at some point, though.

If another major country STOPS their QE, and we are in a position where we can't, then we see a HUGE IMPLOSION.

Surely the traders can see this too? Surely it's got to at least slow the bull market? I mean immediate consequences.

But for right now, I would wait to see how the world reacts NEXT WEEK to the revelation that the FED is playing a competitive game of "HIDE THE SAUSAGE"

No doubt about that.



Interesting Rockpuck & RolandBrichter have raised the specter of China calling in the chips.

Maybe the stock markets have become like an alcoholic who just can't help himself. Before he picks up the phone to AA the poor guy falls victim to an armed assault & loses everything, including the remains of his pride.

What kind of a state is he going to be in when the bailiffs turn up, escorted by the police?



[edit to add:]

The FTSE has been open a couple of hours:

4637.62 down 52.91 -1.13%

Source

I actually looked in here before checking the indices!

*shameful look*




[edit on 7/8/09 by pause4thought]

Karl Denninger puts it in a nutshell:





Taken from the thread that broke the news on ATS:

Blatant monetization uncovered

Well here's a round -up / re-cap... :shk:

All Ordinaries 4,303.10 2:47AM ET Down 27.90 (0.64%)
Shanghai Composite 3,260.69 3:00AM ET Down 95.64 (2.85%)
Hang Seng 20,375.37 5:59AM ET Down 523.87 (2.51%)
BSE 30 15,160.24 6:29AM ET Down 353.79 (2.28%)
Jakarta Composite 2,349.13 4:59AM ET Down 10.84 (0.46%)
Nikkei 225 10,412.09 3:00AM ET Up 24.00 (0.23%)
Seoul Composite 1,576.00 5:04AM ET Up 10.96 (0.70%)
Taiwan Weighted 6,868.65 Aug 6 Up 20.41 (0.30%)

FTSE 100 4,633.53 7:00AM ET Down 57.00 (1.22%)
CAC 40 3,444.75 7:15AM ET Down 33.08 (0.95%)
DAX 5,330.72 7:01AM ET Down 39.26 (0.73%)
OSE All Share 346.03 7:01AM ET Down 5.06 (1.44%)
ATX 2,294.92 7:01AM ET Down 55.78 (2.37%)

DJIA FV Values 9216.26 9197.0 -19.26 Last Updated: 07:15:03 AM

Gold $960.71

Oil $71.30

Is this right?

INDEX: DXY
77.99

Change
-0.08 -0.10%

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Thanks, Hx.

I think it's high time we slipped in a gold index:

Live index



Here's silver as well:

Live index

Source



Note: I tried everything to embed the live charts. The code is available, but the ATS 'code' feature doesn't seem to work with it. If anyone knows how to get it to work, the source code is available here: www.kitconet.com... & www.kitconet.com...



[edit on 7/8/09 by pause4thought]

No problems... ...links givin' ya a fit eh?

AIG logs first quarterly profit since 2007
money.cnn.com...

Troubled insurer's second-quarter revenue declines 18%, but company earns $1.8 billion after six consecutive losing quarters.

Now only ~185B to go!!!

Livecharts.co.uk
www.livecharts.co.uk...

Gold

Gold March 2008 [kitco.com]

Silver

Oil


[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by pause4thought
Karl Denninger puts it in a nutshell:

Taken from the thread that broke the news on ATS:

Blatant monetization uncovered

well the congressman asked him wether they will monetize the debt and inflate the money supply 100% to get debt to gdp back to 41% in 10 years.

and bernanke will say either
A/ he has the ability due to the delicaticity of the nature of the national security nature of the discussion to omit truthful answers when they could damage the confidence in the engine they have put several trillion in debt gaurantee's toward backing up........i really don't have much wonder about this......i would strongly believe he can say whatever he wants and cannot be held accountable because telling the truth could be seen as subjecting the USA to another financial fall. And when the choice is tell the public and foreign holders of debt the truth vs. continue to put on our best face in the most obtuse way and under the flexibility of deception granted to him under national security exemptions and the consequences of this is the delicate economy or dollar the answer in poltics is SIMPLE! no brainer!

Denninger i think just realizes that he can use his popularity to leverage enough outrage to .........who knows what........take bernanke out of the fed?........and bring in who......him? I can assure you nobody in their right mind would want the job in the fed ....it is like trying to be a good captain of a ship with inherent flaws that make that impossible in a ocean that it filled with more icebergs as you look out over the fiscal horizon in a political climate where upseting the status quo as a no-no....and you have little choice but to pander to wall street..(that's why they like people who have been "taught" the "right way" to do things at Ivory tower schools that are funded by the very elites that they want their graduates to serve..and insure the curriculum has as much positive spin toward the foundation of the fed...and the way it's politics toward wall street work..(that is = to the media spin you hear every day)...so now what......oh....you want congress to control the money supply like in the constitution? well that is a NIFTY idea......too bad that only makes sense when the congress is HONEST.....and not beholden to lobbyists.....they would IMO be printing out REAL MONEY not will-nilly style but to hand out to who knows .....lobbyists........should enough american's wake up ...they may be inclined to hand it out to voters.....and trash the dollar and the bond market sooner than the skilled manipulators at the fed...

as one poster said the monetized money by the fed is not going to inflation it is going toward gov't spending.......

the amount of currency in circulation has incrased at a rather steady rate

research.stlouisfed.org...

any added comments/criticisms

Well folks, it has happened unemployment rate dropped by .1%.

Well today lots of more folks are going to be very angry at this news.

Rockpuck said something like this might happen so did Marg and I'm sure some other people too.

Well here it is, it has happened.

Edit to add - As soon as an article pops up I'll post it.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Great...add 247K to the unemployed and the rate drops from 9.5% to 9.4% ???

WTH?!? :shk:

Reminds me of earlier this year when it jumped .5% on 650k...Hmmm...

And Futures are climbing...

DJIA FV Futures 9216.26 9292.0 75.74 08:35:02 AM

S&P FV Futures 994.38 1003.4 9.02 08:34:26 AM

[edit on 8/7/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Here it is

Great, so who is going to report this to the White House for "disinfo"?

I loved this part:

The government revised job losses for May and June to show 43,000 fewer jobs lost than previously reported.

Don't pay any attention to man behind the current folks he just pushed the wrong button is all, nothing to be concerned about.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Gov manipulation to the fullest extent. Now we are going to hear about how the stimulus is working for the next month, where unemployment will drop again.

All I can do is :shk:

reply to post by cpdaman


That was intelligent comment from someone clearly reluctant to jump on a bandwagon.

as one poster said the monetized money by the fed is not going to inflation it is going toward gov't spending.......

But whether it goes into capital projects or state employees' wages it still ends up in circulation, does it not?

telling the truth could be seen as subjecting the USA to another financial fall

Or, to put it another way, admitting the critics/commentators who have been saying the bailouts have done nothing but deepen and prolong the final agony are right will mean the investments poured into the 'green shoots' suckers' rally (+ an awful lot more) might be lost.

But if the markets have been propped up through deception there was never any other possible outcome. It was only a matter of time. So it was reckless and foolish.

And when the choice is tell the public and foreign holders of debt the truth vs. continue to put on our best face in the most obtuse way and under the flexibility of deception granted to him under national security exemptions and the consequences of this is the delicate economy or dollar the answer in poltics is SIMPLE! no brainer!

Aren't the people at the top supposed to be intelligent enough to find real solutions?

Denninger i think just realizes that he can use his popularity to leverage enough outrage to .........who knows what........take bernanke out of the fed?........and bring in who......him? I can assure you nobody in their right mind would want the job in the fed

No, I think it is more a matter of giving up on the Fed altogether. Many are saying it's had its day.

so now what......oh....you want congress to control the money supply like in the constitution? well that is a NIFTY idea......too bad that only makes sense when the congress is HONEST.....and not beholden to lobbyists.....

These are the kind of real issues that need to be solved if the major western economies are going to ever get back on a firm footing. Integrity in politics, running government for the people - not the politicians and their cronies - is the only viable alternative to the current fiasco.

reply to post by pause4thought


I think we should try our hand in a semi-free market money system. Let towns and states start their own money and see how it goes. Monopolies aren't any good anyway you look at it, I say we should apply the same reasoning to currency. The strongest one will always win out that way.

Of there are some problems that need to be worked out with that idea, but nothing too major. Right now the Fed has a monopoly on paper that poses as currency when in reality it is nothing more than debt.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by pause4thought

 

I think we should try our hand in a semi-free market money system. Let towns and states start their own money and see how it goes. Monopolies aren't any good anyway you look at it, I say we should apply the same reasoning to currency. The strongest one will always win out that way.

Of there are some problems that need to be worked out with that idea, but nothing too major. Right now the Fed has a monopoly on paper that poses as currency when in reality it is nothing more than debt.

Welcome to Bartertown.....

There is an underground economy forming as we speak, in certain areas, based on tangible assets rather than worthless paper...It is very real...

Depending on how bad things get, this underground barter economy will become so powerful that the government may have to enact "the mark of the beast" protocol....One can neither buy or sell without the "mark".....