The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by marg6043


Usually before major military conflict "battle lines" are drawn clearly before the conflict. During WW1 and WW2 sides formed, each had their own claims.. could this be the beginning? The Eastern World taking on the Western World for economic supremacy?

reply to post by redhatty


No it doesn't sound good it would have been better if they wouldn't have thrown in Fox News and that hate talk thing again.

That is a "little" bit unfactual. I wonder when we will find out what the decide. Sounds like its time to start paying attention to the bond market really closely.

Also I think the meeting they are talking about is about security matters too. Ahamdenijad is there right now.

Edit to add -

Things aren't good on the business front

Megacolor Corp files Chap 11
Extended Stay Hotels LLC files Chap. 11
Building Materials Holding Corp Files Chap. 11



[edit on 16-6-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply to post by redhatty


I have to say that was a monumental post. I highly recommend the full article to posters and lurkers alike: it's an absolute must-read.

I checked out the author's credentials , and they are utterly beyond question.

(NB: I completely dissociate myself from 'the Christian right' which the author opposes, and having read his biography I am intending to get hold of his publications.)

Many thanks, redhatty.





[edit on 16/6/09 by pause4thought]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Here in GA, (republican state) labor groups are pushing the State government to make a commitment of tracking down the stimulus money to be used for the employment of only American citizens that has paid taxes in the state, hot lines are been put in effect to track contractors that hire immigrants under state funds.

Interesting.

Now as for the money like you say the states are waiting but nothing yet.

Perhaps the money is just no there yet or the government doesn't have it.



[edit on 16-6-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by Rockpuck


You know I just starting to see the ramifications of what the BRIC is trying to accomplish.

But they are not just targeting developing countries in the Asian markets but also South America countries.

One thing is to invade a continent during a third world war, but can you imagine two continents?

So I don't think America will have many allies after many of developing countries take side.

Is all about power, many of the countries uniting with China and Russia wants a taste of the power that our nation had over the world but now is losing littler by littler.

pragcap.com...

The CMBS and ABS markets have risen sharply from the lows but just recently dipped again demonstrating that the reflation isn't going towards where it matters most. We also see commodities moving towards levels of expected imminent inflation without the increase in demand and decrease in supply to warrant the large increases.

reply to post by pause4thought

Our corporate-controlled media, already banal and trivial, will work overtime to anesthetize us with useless gossip, spectacles, sex, gratuitous violence, fear and tawdry junk politics. America will be composed of a large dispossessed underclass and a tiny empowered oligarchy that will run a ruthless and brutal system of neo-feudalism from secure compounds. Those who resist will be silenced, many by force. We will pay a terrible price, and we will pay this price soon, for the gross malfeasance of our power elite.

I somewhat agree with Mr. Hedges here...but I will add that not all Americans will fall victim to the elite...there will be geographical pockets of individual freedom that will successfully resist, survive and eventually rebuild from the ashes...

reply to post by Rockpuck


There are clearly two streams of conversation happening simultaneously. I'd just like to say in response to your post at the top of this page, that was exactly what I was thinking of saying next.

I have been very skeptical of the increasing number of voices warning that current events could well lead to conflict(s), as that would be a blatantly crass response from the PTB. But having read the article posted by redhatty I have to admit the winds of war are far from imaginary.

Whereas economic doom and gloom sometimes make for stimulating conversation, rumors of global war just make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, no matter how faint. The entertainment value is zero. At the same time there's no point putting your head in the sand. This now needs to be watched very carefully.




[edit on 16/6/09 by pause4thought]

Does anybody think that the banks will survive? I mean i know 10 Trillion is a lot of cash, but if the dollar collapses I really don't see any other fiat currency surviving the transition.

Could it be possible that they are underestimating the damage something a move like that will cause?

I caught this statement while reading an article and did a double-take:

"In the meantime, Lee and Geithner agreed that world economies are showing signs of recovery but cautioned against premature optimism.

Geithner was quoted as saying that the United States will not let up its stimulus measures and that next year's package would be almost of the same scale as that of 2009.

Link: www.koreaherald.co.kr...

Next year's package? Did anybody else know this was happening? Where the heck are they planning to get another $800 Billion? This is crazy!!



[edit on 16-6-2009 by lpowell0627]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


No to worry the dollar will always have value in the US.



Occurs is unthinkable that one day the dollar just will collapse.

and the plot thickens....

YEKATERINBURG, Russia (AP) -- China and Russia sought greater international clout at a summit Tuesday, with China promising a $10 billion loan to Central Asian countries, while Russia challenged the dominance of the U.S. dollar as a global reserve currency.

Russia also gave a prominent platform to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad amid massive protests in Iran over his bitterly disputed re-election and questions in the West about the vote.

Chinese leader Hu Jintao said China will extend a $10 billion loan to a regional group that also includes Russia and four Central Asian states.

The move adds muscle to China's role in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a six-nation group Russia and China use to counter the Western influence in resource-rich, strategically placed Central Asia. The other members of the organization Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

The leaders of Afghanistan, Iran, India and Pakistan were also at the table, underscoring Russia and China's reach for regional clout and global influence.

Hu said the loan is intended to shore up the struggling economies of its members amid the global financial crisis.

Meanwhile, President Dmitry Medvedev pushed his call for new global reserve currencies to complement the dollar at the summit.

"No currency system can be successful if we have financial instruments denominated in just one currency," Medvedev said. "We must strengthen the international financial system not only by making the dollar strong, but also by creating other reserve currencies."

Source[

reply to post by lpowell0627

Where the heck are they planning to get another $800 Billion?

Option 1: from our great-grandchildren.

Option 2: they know full well the current economic dispensation is coming to an end (-as hyperinflation will make all the major currencies worthless-), so they can print as much as they like & call it "investment"; it just keeps the charade going long enough for them to have the replacement ready.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

There are clearly two streams of conversation happening simultaneously. I'd just like to say in response to your post at the top of this page, that was exactly what I was thinking of saying next.

I have been very skeptical of the increasing number of voices warning that current events could well lead to conflict(s), as that would be a blatantly crass response from the PTB. But having read the article posted by redhatty I have to admit the winds of war are far from imaginary.

Whereas economic doom and gloom sometimes make for stimulating conversation, rumors of global war just make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, no matter how faint. The entertainment value is zero. At the same time there's no point putting your head in the sand. This now needs to be watched very carefully.




[edit on 16/6/09 by pause4thought]

I had a friend who was high up in Chrysler in the '80's and since then retired from corporate life. He also attended Yale a was part of a secret society there. He and I discussed things when we talked often and he told me the next war will be with china and the 3rd world against the developed world. I can't fathom how a war will be fought with nukes in the picture. In fact, I think I would rather die in a split second with a flash of light (a nuke) as opposed to bleeding to death in a ditch somewhere because my legs were blown off

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by marg6043

 

Usually before major military conflict "battle lines" are drawn clearly before the conflict. During WW1 and WW2 sides formed, each had their own claims.. could this be the beginning? The Eastern World taking on the Western World for economic supremacy?

I think you are right but it is more of a matter where Russia and China see the Kondratieff Wave cycle the US is in and are just trying to position themselves to be protected (or even profit) off of the cycle. It is rather clear that the US is in a depression / winter economic stage. Unfortunately, that is usually accompanied by a major war too.

Originally posted by redhatty
and the plot thickens....

I've been saying for years that Russia will regret being friendly with China in the future. I still believe this to be so.

With that being said...I think what Russia wants, a basket of reserve currencies is a good idea. The only reason why the U.S. would be opposed is because that means we cannot print money forever and abuse that power. And if we cannot abuse that power, then the global economy won't grow as quickly or contract with the contracting monetary value of the dollar which was there to inflate everything...

reply to post by redhatty


Another thought-provoking article.

Here's something that's screaming for attention (from that excerpt):

The move adds muscle to China's role in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a six-nation group Russia and China use to counter the Western influence in resource-rich, strategically placed Central Asia. The other members of the organization Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

The leaders of Afghanistan, Iran, India and Pakistan were also at the table, underscoring Russia and China's reach for regional clout and global influence.

Is it any coincidence Western powers have been meddling in Afghanistan, not to mention alternately wooing/threatening Pakistan? What with the west utilizing air bases in Uzbekistan, etc., to extend their reach into current zones of conflict it doesn't take too much imagination to see where the eye of any coming storm might be...



[edit to add:]

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

I had a friend who was high up in Chrysler in the '80's and since then retired from corporate life. He also attended Yale a was part of a secret society there. He and I discussed things when we talked often and he told me the next war will be with china and the 3rd world against the developed world.

It really seems some people in the upper echelons see current affairs/world economics/politics as some kind of a board-game, where a few hundred thousand mutilated/dead here or there is of little consequence. Pure evil.





[edit on 16/6/09 by pause4thought]

reply to post by redhatty


Interesting how the Iranian president left his nation amid the protest to his reelection to attend this meeting.

That tells you how important this people are starting to see themselves when it comes to global war for financial control.

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


I don't think Russia is making a mistake siding with China, I think Russia is just taking sides with what will become a powerful Ally in the future.

China has an agenda and they are very fast reaching their goal.

break out your tinfoil hats folks, cause it's gonna get thick in this post.

You remember that little report about the Bearer bonds? You know the story that has been a "media blackout" here in the US? (Glen Beck did discuss it the other night though)

Well, let's think about the ramifications of this event for a minute...

Determining the bonds to be forgeries would take about 10-15 minutes. Seriously, give the serial #s to the SEC/FED/whatever, over the phone, pop them into a computer & wha-la.

But, it's about a week later & *supposedly* it is still under investigation.

Well let's say, for the sake of argument that those bonds ARE REAL.

Because bearer instruments haven't been issued by the Treasury since 1982, when they became illegal to issue, at least to US institutions and residents (there was an exception carved out for Treasury instruments issued to non-US residents in 1985 - a time of high deficits) one has to wonder where these came from.

There is little reason to believe that there are still $130 billion of legitimate US Bearer issuance outstanding anywhere - to anyone.

So if they were NOT issued legally & properly, that only leaves one to deduce (Occam's Razor here) that they were issued Illegally or at the very least, surreptitiously.

So if the Treasury (or FED, or whatever WH Admin, etc) has been issuing bonds - that are not reported, are not accounted, are not applied to the accounting of the debt issue (fill in your own blank) to foreign nations, the poop hurricane that is coming will make EVERYTHING we are going through now look like "good times"

Realize that the people who were holding these, are in essence (assuming they ARE real) the 4th largest US debt holder in the world. The 2 guys that were caught with these (enroute to a Swiss Port, no less) hold more US debt that the entire UK!!!

So let's just say that, now that these Bearer bonds have "come to light" that the original country that was holding them is watching very closely how this is dealt with in both the US .gov AND the US Media. And now they see that the US is really trying to hide something (like maybe, just maybe the REAL amount of debt we have???).

Is the FED issuing Bonds on their own???? (Illegal, btw)

And they are waking up, and have decided that the USD is now a "toxic asset"

BTW, IF THOSE BEARER BONDS ARE REAL, we OWE Italy the money now. Oh, in case you weren't aware, the 2 guys who were carrying them, are NOT IN JAIL, so either they have diplomatic immunity, or someone can already verify that they are completely legitimate bearer instruments.

Hmmmm.

So what could possibly be the impact of the rest of the world learning taht we have a CB in the US issuing Debt, or that we have US Debt issuance that is not being openly reported???

It would surely explain a strong desire for MANY countries to get as far away from the USD as possible, esp since there would be NO WAY to truly value the USD without knowing exactly how much US Debt instruments are floating around out in the world.

Oh and when Other countries start to call in their US Debt holdings (rather than roll them over, as is the usual), what is going to happen?

I can assure you that the OTHER countries WILL NOT accept an "IOU" when they want the cash out & we in the US do NOT have the funds to redeem the amount of debt that can be called in.

So is it any wonder that the world wants to move away from the USD ??

Maybe the basket of currencies is not as "stable" but with all this information and activity lately, whats to say that the USD IS STABLE?

The rest of the world is asking this exact question.

We (the US) are not answering them.

So you tell me folks.... What happens next?