Should we get the flu vaccine?

Please let me clarify my situation - vaccines are useless to me because of the way my particular immune system works. I have a strong "cell-mediated immunity" yet limited "immunological memory" to vaccine-induced pathogens. The difference between the two is that mine (cell-mediated) fights off harmful germs, yet doesn't really store any antibody signature in memory. So you'll never be able to detect "antibodies" in me to rubella, cx pox, measles, etc. Needless to say, my worried ob-gyns were having a fit with this when I was pregnant. Anywho, the goal of vaccines is to stimulate antibody production that then will be stored in "immunological memory." Since my body doesn't go for that, vaccines are and will always be useless to me. It's totally genetic and has nothing to do with antibiotics (wouldn't go near those things - salt water is the best germ fighter). I suspect alot of other people's immune system is just like mine - hence vaccines will never be "stored in memory" to help when exposed to the real pathogen and are completely useless to them.

Originally posted by asmeone2You just watch. Give it 4-5 decades or less, and we'll all be like you, just as antibiotics are gradually losing effectiveness.

reply to post by emeraldzeus


I can not wait to give they herbal concoction a try. I have most of the ingredients.
It sounds intriguing, beats the alternatives and it has worked for you. Thanks for the share, I will pass it along, once I give it a try.

Absolutely not, unless your immune system is compromised and the flu represents a grave threat to you.

There is so much stuff in those vaccines that is harmful that it is way beyond the scope of this post to even scratch the surface. The info is easily available on many websites.

Do not get a flu vaccine and do not let your children be vaccinated for anything.

reply to post by Static Sky

No. I've known too many people who say they went years without getting sick, until they got a flu shot. Now they get sick every year.

I use an herb called Elderberry. When in your blood, viruses stick to it. They can't get into your cells to reproduce. It gives your immune system a little extra time to figure out how to kill 'em. It works equally well against ANY flu strain.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I get mine every year.
I almost never get the flu and if I get it, it's usually mild.

I say get the shot.

interesting.. I can honestly say the exact same thing.. 8-10 fruits and veggies a day mixed together in 2 puree'd shakes morning and night. Seeds the core and skin, everything.. best multivitamin you can get coupled with moderate excercise.. now this is a bold statement... you don't get sick.. you just dont.. based on personal experience anyway..

very interesting thread OP!

I think we need to be carefull here.

For normal healthy adults it probably is not necessary. However for people like myself who have had a 'splenectomy' it is wise to have the shot. The same can be said for the over 65's and those with a heart condition.

I have had the shot the past three years with no side affects.

I'm not sure that it is wise to vaccinate healthy children though, a child's immune system strengthens itself with every cold/flu/virus.

Just my opinion.

reply to post by Static Sky


Static Sky, I honestly think ATS is the wrong place to inquire about this. ATS is full of paranoid, angry people who find fault and deception in everything 'man' creates... anyway =), I would suggest looking on a health forum (i.e., healthboards.com) or ask your doctor.

My gf gets the flu shot and she hardly ever gets a bad flu, me, on the other hand get horrible flus... I should get it myself...

Originally posted by Mean Red Spider
reply to post by Static Sky

 

No. I've known too many people who say they went years without getting sick, until they got a flu shot. Now they get sick every year.

I use an herb called Elderberry. When in your blood, viruses stick to it. They can't get into your cells to reproduce. It gives your immune system a little extra time to figure out how to kill 'em. It works equally well against ANY flu strain.

Are you a doctor Red Spider? These are interesting statements you are making and I suggest you back them up with a link or reference before spouting it out.

reply to post by porky1981


I do agree that ATS shouldn't be used to gather medical advice, but the point of this thread is to solicite ATS members opinions of the flu vaccine. That's why I'm okay with posters talking about alternative medicines, too. I hope and trust that nobody is foolish enough to take any advice on here regarding alternative treatments without researching deeper into them and yes, from more credible sources than this.

I find that ATS is a great 'starting point' to gather alternate views to your own. But I always follow up anything new I hear and find important, with loads of my own research into the matter. I think everyone should do that. A little skepticism is a healthy thing.

Thanks for your opinions. Be well.

I strongly suggest you ask your doctor, or check medical sites, for this sort of advice. This is probably, imo, one of the worst places to get information that might impact your health or well-being. Most people who do decide to get or not get the flu shot though, seems to do so on their own non-researched feelings as it were.

i seem to recall getting the flu every year as a kid, but i also got flu shots every year too, to prevent that very thing... now i haven't had a flu shot in over 10 years, and i truly can't remember the last time i had the flu - it seems that it was about the same time i stopped getting the flu shots though... coincidence?!

our immune systems never cease to amaze me!! we really do need to take better care of them, and stop ingesting so much junk & rubbish!!!

[edit on 18-10-2008 by adrenochrome]

I haven't read past the first page of the thread, but I will give my input quick. I have never gotten any shots since those ones that are required while attending school as a kid. The last time I got sick to the point that I had to stay in bed for extended periods of time was when I was a sophomore or junior in high school. So 16 years without any major illnesses, no shots. I rarely get sick these days, and when I do it's more of an annoyance rather than something that totally knocks me out.

We just got emailed here at work about flu shots as well. Obviously I have no intention of getting one. I just don't see the reason for it. Maybe if we were talking about an outbreak of some sort of hemorrhagic fever (i.e. Ebola) then I'd consider it. But for run of the mill seasonal type stuff, no thank you.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by John_Q_Llama]

reply to post by adrenochrome


I never had the shot as a kid. I got the flu several times. The last about 8 years or so I've had the flu once. This includes the last 2 years in which I did get the shot. No flu in those 2 years, but it had already been 2 or 3 years since my last bout. No bad reactions either. It's a tough call. I'm surprised more people don't consider it a little more carefully.

Anyways, thanks for your input and thanks very much for the flag. Be well.

I think that getting personal experiences and anecdotes is a valid way of collecting information that can help one make a decision. I do, however, have concerns about people saying "No don't get it because it's got a chip in it," or making other claims about it containing toxins, experimental drugs, etc.

I myself am an advocate of alternative/holistic/homeopathic medicine and I understand the fallacies in "modern medicine" and know that I, myself, am healthier using herbs and holistic remedies (and trying to eat healthier) than when I blindly trusted my doctors and took whatever they gave me.

On the other hand, I'm older now, (51 tomorrow), and working in a high-risk environment. I also caught bronchitis once from a patient in a nursing home I worked in many years ago, and ever since any flu or bad cold that I catch invariably turns into bronchitis before it's over with no matter how much stuff (like echinacea or mullein or goldenseal, etc.) I take. So, I choose to get the flu shot and so far it's worked out well for me personally. I'm not going to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't do because I don't know their particular circumstances, health, or physiological idiosyncrasies (such as Tylenol not working on me, at least for pain, and being allergic to sulfa).

I personally believe that the needle used to give the flu shots is too small to insert a chip at the current level of technology, and "air gun" shots can't insert chips. I can believe that the government does sometimes "experiment" on its own citizens, but I tend to think they usually use controlled or controllable populations (military, prison inmates, psych inpatients, etc.) for such experiments rather than the general public.
And even a casual google search will reveal that formaldehyde, although undeniably toxic, is a chemical so prevalent and pervasive in our environment (it used to be in white bread!) that having a serious concern about the tiny amount present in a vaccine may be a tad over the top.

Ultimately, each of us needs to weigh all available "evidence" that is important to us (including personal experiences) and make our own decision. At least Static Sky is taking it quite seriously and looking for evidence to make an informed decision instead of just mindlessly taking or not taking the shot as many people do.

reply to post by Heike


Hi Heike. Always good to see you.

And you're exactly right. I've already learned a ton from the opinions and suggestions I've read on here. Some information looks usefull, while I'm skeptical of other things. So I guess this thread is like everything else in life, in that way. I'm thankfull for all input that I get, so long as it's honest. And I don't think we have any problems with that here.

I've experienced enough of the flu shot personally (just twice), to know it hasn't caused bad reactions in me. But I do have a friend that got very sick with the flu right after getting his shot. May have been coincidence, but he won't try it again.

It's a very 'on-the-fence' issue really. Two sides, neither able to prove anything absolutely, both believing they're right. And either ultimately could be right. Possible long term effects really aren't conclusive either way, yet. That's exactly why I started this thread. To try and get an idea of what everyone else's thoughts are. So I thank you all for all of your opinions. and I hope they'll keep coming. Cheers.

what, no. i dont think so little of my mind/body to waste time getting vaccines. i just dont get sick, and thats that. i refuse to, and my reality adjust. im serious too. started that thinking 8 years ago, and has worked ever since. no more week of being sick, and then barf and be better. i use to get that like clock work every year, around the same exact time for the longest. then around 18 while practicing qigong, i decided that whenever i started to feel ill, im just going to start working out, and refuse to get sick.

never looked back since. i might feel the onsets of a cold, and then within a day and a half, its gone. you could chop that up to me being young, but i think there is enough scientific evidence to back up my claims of truly just believing in yourself, and your body will listen. your body is a tool to use at your disposal. learn how to use it

i mean, for real. i use to get sick like clock work, and then boom, i just stopped it. it use to be me being down and out, cant move for a week, barf, wake up perfect the next day. i use to just go through the week hoping to barf soon, so it would be over

[edit on 18-10-2008 by jimmy1200]

reply to post by Heike


Since ATS is a conspiracy website, speculating on things that TPTB, MIGHT be doing, like slipping in a chip, is totally appropriate. I don't trust the MDA, the FDA, the government or any PTB, I'm paranoid and so I suspect anything THEY say to do.

Anyway I trust that intelligent people will do their research and make the right decision. I would never get a flu shot, does not men that I will not get the flu, I may well.

Peace all!

[edit on 18-10-2008 by cindymars]

reply to post by cindymars


You are absolutely right and I apologize for not making my point more clearly.

IMO there's a difference between saying:

"I suspect that the PTB may be inserting chips in vaccines and therefore I won't get one."

and saying

"No! NO! Don't take it, you can't, there's a chip in it and they'll be able to track you.."
or
"No, you mustn't get the vaccine, it's got experimental drugs in it."

In other words, I think we should express our personal opinions and beliefs as opinions and beliefs, not as facts or "truths," and state what we ourselves would do or not do and why instead of telling others what they should or shouldn't do.

Originally posted by fleabit
I strongly suggest you ask your doctor, or check medical sites, for this sort of advice. This is probably, imo, one of the worst places to get information that might impact your health or well-being. Most people who do decide to get or not get the flu shot though, seems to do so on their own non-researched feelings as it were.

While I appreciate your concern, and share your feeling that the opinion of one's doctor should ultimately have more weight than that of any one poster on a message board, I think you're selling ATS short.

If you have read all of this thread, you will see that it is a collection of evidence from both sides of the issue, including some pretty technical stuff. We have listed ingredients in the different brands of flu shot on the market, compared the injection to the nasal mist, and shared our personal experiences.

Links have been given to outside sources arguing for and against the flu shot in particular and vaccination in general. In short, this thread is something of an informal bibliography to begin research into the pros and cons of flu vaccination. You could do much worse.

I agree that most people who choose to vaccinate or not to vaccinate do so thoughtlessly, either because it's offered and they might as well or because they read somewhere, or heard someone say, that it's dangerous.

StaticSky has not only demonstrated that he had thought about and researched the issues involved before he started the thread, he has continued to participate in the thread, keeping the discussion focused and encouraging both feedback and critical thinking about the issue.

It is because ATS members are more conspiracy-minded than the average populace that the discussion here has been more than "well, here are the FDA guidelines and you fit here, so don't bother". We don't (as a rule) listen to anyone telling us what to do without questioning why we should do it.

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Although I'm not ready to commit myself on that issue, I tend to think you're right. At least about diseases like influenza, which have very low complication rates among a healthy populace. I also dislike all the various antibacterial soaps, towels, Kleenex, cleaning products, etc. that industry has been pushing over the last decade. Sometimes bacteria are our buddies.

But I do think the flu shot is worthwhile for any demographic that runs a high risk of complication. And though I wouldn't take the pharmaceutics company's word for its efficacy, I've read enough studies to be convinced that it works, in its limited way.

When my kids were little I was not aware of the problems with all the antibacterial soaps etc. So thought I was doing my children a favor by using this stuff. Both my kids had asthma, constantly were sick and one of them had intense allergies (still does with some things).

When they started school the shtf, and both children were constantly sick, seemed like a never ending battle and me running around "spraying lysol" trying to kill off the germs around the house as well as constantly buying this cold formula or a barrage of medicines to try and make things better and keep them healthy.

Several years ago I had an asthma specialist ask me if I was using the antibacterial soaps and other products, she then suggested that I stop using them and gave me several pamphlets detailing why this was not healthy. (and so started my foray into understanding poisons effect on my family) I also started mostly cleaning with vinegar. Since then my children have outgrown their asthma along with most of the allergy issues. We all get sick maybe once a year, which pretty much seems to be at the very beginning of the school year.

So...my opinion...all of these antibacterial soaps etc. actually cause your children to not build up the immunities that they need when they are little, therefore causing more sicknesses and a lower immune system.

Since I stopped using these products we have also tried to go as much organic as possible, though its pretty expensive overall so we cannot afford this 100%. I only buy organic eggs and milk as well as meat products. We grow as many of our own veges as possible.

I also chose to go organic as my youngest one had allergies to almost everything it seemed. I started noticing that when my neighbors would spray their yard (weekly) with chemicals, you could bet my kiddo would end up with something going on. So I have started using only organic products in my yard, LOL and I have the best grass in the neighborhood so I added an "organically maintained" sign to my yard.

The point of the above rant is that since we have started changing how we eat and clean and what products we put in our environment we get sick less and less often, and feel healthier.

So I guess it is a combination of your environment and your immune system on as to if you should get the flu shot or not.

We never get the flu shot and do fine. Some years we get the flu, some years we don't. I have known people who get the shot and still get sick. My mom though who has a heart condition and high blood pressure gets the shot every year, seems to work well for her except ? year before last I think? Then she came down with a very very bad case of the flu, but the rest of us did not.