Should we get the flu vaccine?

reply to post by Jemison


Very interesting. Thanks for the update. The last 2 years, I've gotten the shot and I usually feel tired after and find mild muscle stiffness at the injection site but no big deal. I do think that's better than dealing with the flu for a week or so.

I have to admit. I think I'm more confused by this issue now than I was before I started this thread. More informed though, too. So I guess better off. LOL.

Originally posted by Jemison
As I mentioned in an earlier post - I got my flu shot yesterday.

About 3 hours after getting it I felt extremely tired. Not a normal sort of tired but more a 'sick' type of exhausted. I went to bed early and woke up this morning feeling STILL feeling tired and a bit achey.

I dont know if I can blame this on the flu shot considering I had a temp of 103 earlier in the week. I kind of question my Dr's judgement in giving me the flu shot when I was still getting over something that caused such a high fever.

This is common with any vaccination. Your immune system has kicked in and is now manufacturing antibodies at an incredible rate. I remember a similar reaction when i had my meningitus C vaccine.

Originally posted by Jemison
My arm is also super sore all around the injection site. The only other time I've had soreness after a shot was when I've had demerol/phenergan shots to relieve migraine pain and the soreness at the injection site lasts about a week with those.

I also had this when i had my tetanus booster. The pain took two days to appear and went 3 days later. I wouldn't worry it's just a reaction to the viral parts.

Originally posted by Jemison
I guess if I'm going to get the flu or have strange side-effects from the vaccine, now is the time to do it. In a few hours we will be on our way to Palm Desert for 10 days of rest and relaxation. If I'm gong to feel icky, I might as well be sitting poolside working on my tan while feeling that way!

I hope you have fun

Originally posted by Jemison
My husband has never had a flu shot and has never had the flu. He is 100% convinced that it is his constant drinking of energy drinks that kills any bad germs that try to enter his body.

Lol well i like his theory but can't agree with it. I've never had flu either and i don't have energy drinks Last year my entire family had the flu, a house full of germs and i didn't get a sniffle *shrugs*.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Even supposing that the shot actually helps, by the time they think they have it "tested," the flu virus will have mutated, making "saving lives" an absurd assumption.

You're not as informed as you think you are. They have found part of the virus that doesn't mutate with each generation and are currently in the proess of developing a vaccine that will work for all current flu strains. So mutating against it won't be possible in any of the known strains. No doubt some other virus will of course jump in to fill teh void, but one at a time

To be frank, this scares me all the more. There was no information I could use to investigate: what media the vaccine was produced in, what chemicals are used, the name of the vaccine (maybe it has none yet), and other pertinent data relative to this.

That it is out of Oxford is disconcerting. Oxford is a chosen school for many of the Elite...

It sounds to me like they are gearing up for a required vaccine - which will also inject who knows what into our systems. Sure, the concept sounds good, but is it really?

This could very well be propaganda - in fact I would give high odds that it is.

As for your sources, i have no issue with those chemicals being called bad, they are. I have an issue with what the vaccines contain as finding an independant tester without an agenda is difficult.

The CDC is a bad source...? I'm guessing that if they wanted to publish a list that is incorrect, there is MUCH (most) on that list that wouldn't be there.

But we all decide what what sources we trust, and if the CDC is not on your list... [shrug]

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

You make some very good arguements. And you've done a terrific job presenting them. Thank you very much for your quality in this thread.

You're most welcome. I know it can be confusing, all of this, but once you start thinking about what you would do if you loved money more than humanity, and had a pharmaceutical company to run, you begin to see clear signs that something is amiss.

You see that a large effort is made through advertising and "studies" that are overtly or covertly done by such companies, and you begin to question the advisability of injecting things into your bloodstream.

It is a fact that mercury is in most vaccines, regardless of the label. And mercury, in ANY amount, is toxic - let alone running through your veins.

Formaldehyde, in the form that is in virtually all vaccines, is scary stuff, too. If you don't want a small amount to pass your lips, why would it be ok to pump it into your veins?

On top of that, there are many other things which might seem ok - because one can ingest them orally - that the body is very ill-equipped (no pun) to handle through the unnatural ingestion of injection.

For this reason I advise people not to inject any vaccines - or ingest them in any way without knowing fully what is in them and what those things do.

When my grandmother was alive, her doctor recommended the flu shot and she got one every year, but it made her sick with a cold within the first few weeks every time she had it. After the first initial sickness every year, she was okay.

My mom gets it every year like clockwork and she still gets the flu. Granted, it may not be as severe as if she would never have gotten the shot, but generally, she still gets some form of the flu.

As for me, I've never had a flu shot and don't plan on getting one anytime soon. I rarely get the flu and when I have had it, it's usually over within 48 hours.

I have a phobia of putting things in my body that don't need to be there, afterall, I've done okay so far - had the flu and suprisingly I'm still alive to talk about it!

[edited for spelling]

[edit on 17-10-2008 by Artista]

reply to post by Artista


Hi Artista. Thanks for sharing. I like how you covered points for both sides. At this time, I think I'm leaning towards skipping it for myself. My wife will get hers, I know. And I'm okay with that as it's her choice. I'm still wondering about our toddler son, though.

I know my wife wants him to get it and I'm somewhat leaning that way too. Daycare is almost a flu guarentee and we both work at a smaller place that can't really afford us to miss any work. Winter is our busy season. Thanks again for your thoughts. Take care.

Sorry folks. My first ever double post. My bad.

[edit on 10/17/2008 by Static Sky]

BTW very Good topic!

My profession is medical, and each year I purchase influenza virus vaccine and on average annually around 3,000 + or - doses.

I would like to say a few things regarding the myths on vaccines most importantly the flu vaccine.

Some of you are saying it’s a plan by the NWO to chip the individual who receives the injection or a plan to infect us all as a way to control the world’s population and this is far from the truth.

If anything the flu vaccine will most likely save your life in the event of an out break that the world experienced in 1918.

Have any of you had a bad case of the flu, a really sever upper respitory infection that was directly linked to the flu?

All I have to say is visit any hospital emergency from now till mid February, stop in around 10 pm and witness what will happen to you for your failure to protect your self from the flu.

First off it starts with nausea, diarrhea if your lucky, then it hits your chest, your lungs fill with fluid and you drown in your own bodily fluids.

The only way you will survive is if the hospital has enough ventilators to cover you and the 300 hundred people sitting in the waiting room not counting the hospitals current census.

The supervising ER MD has decisions to make, who lives and who dies.

Infants and senior citizens will be given IV fluids along with a sedative and pushed a side and left to let nature takes it course.

Depending on your age and physical condition will determine if you get life saving measures.

Money might help, it depends if the MD is bribable.

Most of us will be pushed aside…

It sucks but this is what we have to look forward to when the pandemic hits and getting a simple flu shot early in the season gives you a 50/50 chance of survival.

I had to watch my wife battle a sever case of the flu a few years back, it happened in late December and it nearly killed her.

The hospital was booked solid with no open beds, they pushed her aside and I new what they were doing and I understood.

After waiting 10 hours to see if she had any improvement and with little to no assistance from the medical staff in the ER I decided and called an ambulance and had her moved from the ER to a private hospital in St. Louis.

She survived but had a 35 day stay, it was a close call and things got complicated and I hope I never have to go through this again!

It’s your call but I would get the shot or take the chance and end up in the ER at the mercy of the hospital staff.

Good Luck!

reply to post by SIRR1


Great post and from a relevant point of view. I'm really not very worried about the microchip conspiracy idea. I think it's hogwash. But my eyes have been opened to the fact that there are some ingredients in some of the vaccines that I really don't want in my body. Can you recommend a brand that would have the least amount of these questionable ingredients, or are they all pretty much the same?

Thanks again for taking the time to share your opinions on this thread. Be well.

reply to post by SIRR1


I'm not sure that's true though... I'm not trying to be disrespectful to your medical experience, but looking at this from a pathological point of view...

A virus is a specific combination of proteins. For flue they name them with Ns and Hs. Let's use H1N5 since everyone is familiar with that.

A vaccine is like locking a door. It's made to stop a specific strain.

So a vaccination for H1N5 is going to, in theory, stop H1N5.

It's misinformation to say that getting a flu shot is going to stop people from getting sick period. If we take the companies at their word, it gives them immunity for certain flu strains--typically the previous years.

It won't cover any mutations that have cropped up since that batch was released.

It's especially disinformative to say that a flu shot will protect a person from a pandemic. If it does happen to be H1N5, a normal flu shot won't protect from that, since it isn't keyed to.

Most likely the next pandemic won't be anything we are familiar with at all, though. It would be some new influenza strain that takes off like wildfire within humans specifically because we have not had it, and have no natural immunities. That's if it's even flu at all--there's a whole host of other diseases, viral or not, with a higher mortality rate or communicability rate that we don't have any vaccine or cure fore, period.



Edit to add: Yes I've had that kind of infection... I had a pleural infection after a bad bout of the flu... certainly wasn't fun. Ranked up there on my "most painful" list.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by asmeone2]

I've got to say, when I was creating this thread, I expected mostly 'for' replies but wanted to hear some 'against' arguements. What I got with this thread, was very much the opposite. Mostly 'against' and the minority is the 'for' side.

Have recieved loads of opinions I'd never considered and views from many different perspectives, all of which I sincerely appreciate. Since I've done some more learning via this thread, I have to consider it a conplete success. Thank you all for that and thanks for the flags on it, too. All opinions still welcome. Cheers all.

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by SIRR1

 

Great post and from a relevant point of view. I'm really not very worried about the microchip conspiracy idea. I think it's hogwash. But my eyes have been opened to the fact that there are some ingredients in some of the vaccines that I really don't want in my body. Can you recommend a brand that would have the least amount of these questionable ingredients, or are they all pretty much the same?

Thanks again for taking the time to share your opinions on this thread. Be well.

Here is a breakdown of this years vaccine, Ingredients and known adverse reactions.

All inflenzia vaccines IMHO will containe pretty much the same ingredients due to CDC guidelines, the only other choice would be the "flumist" form of vaccine.

"flumist" is a live vaccine and it's sprayed up your nasal cannal and does not contain preservatives, so this might be the way to go for your vaccine.

Influenza Virus Vaccine

Flulaval 2008/2009 formula

Single dose 0.5ml

GlaxoSmithKline

Each 0.5ml dose contains 15 mcg hemagglutinin (HA) of each of the following influenza virus strains recommended for the 2008-2009 season.

A/Brisbane/59/2007 (H1N1)-like virus
A/Brisbane/59/2007 IVR-148.
A/Brisbane/10/2007 (H3N2) – like virus
A/Uruguay/216/2007 NYMC X-175
B/Florida/4/2006 – like virus
B/Florida/4/2006

Thimerosal (25mcg mercury/dose as a preservative).

The vaccine is prepared in eggs.
Each dose contains very low concentrations of formaldehyde
(

The vaccine is prepared in eggs.
Each dose contains very low concentrations of formaldehyde
(

reply to post by SIRR1


Great information! Thank you very much again, for taking the time to post. Those are some interesting numbers as far as reactions in the first 4 days after vaccination are concerned. And the specific symptoms suggest to me I have some more reading to do. Thanks again. Be well.

ATS is pretty heavily anti-vaccination, at least the members who are interested in the topic. And it's not hard to see why people are wary of believing anything the drug companies say. I happen to believe that most doctors are not in the profession to make money (unless we're talking about upscale plastic surgeons or something), and are genuinely concerned with what's best for their patients.

When I answered before I didn't know two things: that you have a young child and that it is important to you to avoid being sick.

The second may sound stupid, but I think there's different levels of wanting to avoid sickness. Certainly, there are different economic considerations, so you have to take into account things like your health coverage and sick leave policy at work.

Anything you put into your body carries a risk. As the parent of a young child in daycare, you are very likely to be exposed to flu virus; getting the flu is also likely to be far more of a hardship for you than for someone like me who would not have to cope with a sick infant as well. These are all factors to keep in mind.

Here's the link to the CDC statement on Guillain-Barre Syndrome and flu. Basically, in 1976 there were several cases of GBS linked to a swine flu vaccine. Since then they have monitored whether it can be linked to other flu vaccines. One study suggests that there is a one in a million likelihood of contracting GBS following flu vaccination; all the other studies have found no link. I didn't look up the studies, but my feeling is that if the likelihood is 1/1000000 then given how many millions of flu vaccinations have been given we would have more confirmation of the linkage.

Here's the lists of non-active ingredients in the flu vaccine:

Chemicals commonly used in the production of vaccines include a suspending fluid (sterile water, saline, or fluids containing protein); preservatives and stabilizers (for example, albumin, phenols, and glycine); and adjuvants or enhancers that help improve the vaccine's effectiveness. Vaccines also may contain very small amounts of the culture material used to grow the virus or bacteria used in the vaccine, such as chicken egg protein.

Afluria Beta-Propiolactone, Calcium Chloride, Neomycin, Ovalbumin, Polymyxin B, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Phosphate, Sodium Phosphate, Sodium Taurodeoxychoalate.
Fluarix Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gentamicin, Hydrocortisone, Octoxynol-10, alpha-Tocopheryl Hydrogen Succinate, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Deoxycholate, Sodium Phosphate, Thimerosal*
Flulaval Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sodium Deoxycholate, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal
Fluvirin Beta-Propiolactone , Egg Protein, Neomycin, Polymyxin B, Polyoxyethylene 9-10 Nonyl Phenol (Triton N-101, Octoxynol 9), Thimerosal (multidose containers), Thimerosal* (single-dose syringes)
Fluzone Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Octoxinol-9 (Triton X-100), Thimerosal (multidose containers)
FluMist Chick Kidney Cells, Egg Protein, Gentamicin Sulfate, Monosodium Glutamate, Sucrose Phosphate Glutamate Buffer

From a pdf available here.

I'm not sure what Amaterasu was referring to when she said that the formaldehyde in vaccines is not the same formaldehyde that the body itself produces in tiny amounts; as far as I'm aware there is only one chemical formula referred to as formaldehyde (or formalin). And of course, all these ingredients have been tested as safe at the levels found in the vaccines. That's really something you have to judge for yourself, just like with food: I personally won't use artificial sweeteners because I think their "safeness" is dubious and the benefit is minimal.

If you are especially concerned about mercury (thimerosal) – especially for your child – you might ask your doctor about the nasal mist flu vaccines, which are completely thimerosal-free (they don't use thimerosal in producing them as I understand it). It does use live virus rather than inactivated, so the risk of mild illness after vaccination is increased. Also, it is not recommended for children under a certain age or anyone with asthma.

Be sure your doctor knows about any allergies your child may have – there are potential allergy triggers including egg white and MSG in many of the vaccine formulas.

To sum up: I would let your wife do what she wants and vaccinate your child. If the child is young enough for daycare, he is probably young enough to have a higher risk of complications from influenza. For yourself I would weigh the risks involved: you will very likely be exposed to the virus via your child – your immune system may fight it off without the vaccine, but it may not. You run a higher risk of mild, short-lived illness if you do get the vaccine; your risk of getting seriously ill is much higher if you don't get the vaccine.

Hope some of this information is helpful.

[edit on 10/17/08 by americandingbat]

Double Post. Sorry.



[edit on 10/17/08 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I get mine every year.
I almost never get the flu and if I get it, it's usually mild.

I say get the shot.

I have not gotten a flu shot, or a shot of any kind since I left the military over 5 years ago. Since then, I have also not gotten sick. When I was getting shots, of course I got sick. That was the whole point, to get sick.

Good riddance, I never liked being a guinea pig.

reply to post by americandingbat


Hi again americandingbat. Thanks for another well thought out post. this thread is starting to get quite a good little collection of these types of very well presented posts.

You too, make some very good points. I am aware of my increased risk due to my son, and of course his risk via daycare is through the roof. I think we'll have to do it for him, anyways. I'm starting to get a little more clarity on the issue now. For myself though, I still waver back and forth. I've got a couple more weeks to decide. And like last year, I'll likely wait until the last minute to make my mind up.

every year at my work they offer up the flu shot. im actually suprised by the large percentage of my coworkers who take it. im not sure why but every year i say no thanks. we were just asked this last monday. i guess i just always allow my immune system to do its job.

i will say last year i was one of the lucky few i knew who didnt get sick one day during flu season. hey what do you know, i didnt even need the shot. i think the bug from last flu season left u sick as hell for 2 days. i hate missing work and time with my kid so i am very happy i didnt get sick.

another great reason i tell myself not to get the shot is because id rather an elderly person or a child takes it.

i cant remember the last time it happened but there has been years when there were shortages.

peace

If you are a healthy person, I say No. You do not need a flu vaccination. I am not a doctor, but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.