Wednesday on the Markets . . .

reply to post by anachryon


Actually is not "real money" but print out money after the government gets the back up from our lenders abroad (China) .

Also we will never really pay the debt as this will be pilled on top of the 10 trillion dollars deficit, that means that we will barely will make with tax payer money to pay for the "interest"

Asian markets are opening to a thunderous *THUD*.

ASX (Australia) dropped 7% on open, Korea down 6%, Nikkei down 3%.

reply to post by anachryon


...um ..

Equity is not money?

Well.. that's a shocker to me since most my expenses are covered by such equity...

Originally posted by anachryon
Asian markets are opening to a thunderous *THUD*.

ASX (Australia) dropped 7% on open, Korea down 6%, Nikkei down 3%.

Monkey see, monkey do.

You have to go tinfoil and realize this is all by design....even economic blogs are seeing it.....

"You Cannot Patch a Busted Dam With Water"

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...


The only thing that has a prayer of saving this is complete transparent disclousure of the books to build some resemblense of faith in the system, plus a bunch of clowns in orange jumps suits.
Niether will happen, because this is by design.....02c

reply to post by Rockpuck


I simply meant "not real" as in the sense described in this story. Perhaps we're talking about two different things?

I would say equity isn't money either. because it can literaly evaporate in a moment. At least money retains some value.

Clear something up for me people, (seriously, because if there is one area I am retarded in, it is finance and economics)

If GM stock went down to 75 cents....wouldn't someone or some group buy it like crazy? Isn't it safe to assume that someone, somewhere is still going to build cars? Or are we walking to the grandparents for Christmas?

Would oil really go so low that it wouldn't be worth pulling it out of the ground? Do we have gas less cars ready to go? What would the value of stock be for a company that decided to replace oil with some alternative fuel?

Are you saying that if I have a couple million dollars in 20 different banks that I am going to be unbelievably rich if I just wait until the bottom is reached and I buy like a crazy man all this cheap stock?

Are the pharmapsedocals going out of business? Will house prices go so low that I will get a $500,000 2006 valued house for $100k? oh happy day for me.

What am I missing when it comes to the real effect this has on someone like me? That owes $125,000 in student loans and doesn't have an asset in the world? Will inflation make these loans easier for me to pay for in the future?

Japan's Nikkei is in freefall. Many stocks are at offer only (i.e. there are no buyers), down right near 10% ATM.
No es bueno.

reply to post by anachryon


Equity is value, it is wealth .. it can be converted into what ever you want it to be.. I convert mine by percentage into numbers in a bank account to buy things, pay bills.. a certain amount generates income, a certain amount is my "accumulated wealth" which my credit is based off.. my home's principle level to appraised level is my equity in my home..

When the equity drops, wealth disappears..

Tell someone watching their 401K .. it's ok .. it was never real anyways...

reply to post by Res Ipsa


125k in student loans..

It means that people are abandoning reason and running from their financial woes.. leaving the weasels that preyed upon them to die with the burden of not only financial losses, but lost revenue in years to come..


Of course, you could also look at it this way..

Your degree is yours, no one can strip you of that.. and there are many countries in this World.. and you have nothing to loose..

But of course, I offer you no direct advice.. I can only place my self in your shoes..

For the record, I refused to take student loans on the principle that education should be free, and I should never, as a human and an American have to sell my soul for education and enlightenment when they are God given rights to man.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
If GM stock went down to 75 cents....wouldn't someone or some group buy it like crazy? Isn't it safe to assume that someone, somewhere is still going to build cars? Or are we walking to the grandparents for Christmas?

If the company's profit and expense reports, which are publicly released, show that the company is edging quite close to bankruptcy, then NO, no one is going to buy, they are going to sell.

Would oil really go so low that it wouldn't be worth pulling it out of the ground? Do we have gas less cars ready to go? What would the value of stock be for a company that decided to replace oil with some alternative fuel?

Yes, crude oil can become so cheap that it actually costs more per barrel to get it out of the ground than it is selling for. Of course, OPEC will simply cut down production to inflate the price again if that happens.

As for gas-less cars/alternative fuels. Well a few are out there, some people have done their own conversions to bio-diesel, for example, but for the most part, the people who are running the world show have chosen no to accept the concept of Peak Oil and have not worked early enough to have a "plan B"

Are you saying that if I have a couple million dollars in 20 different banks that I am going to be unbelievably rich if I just wait until the bottom is reached and I buy like a crazy man all this cheap stock?

If you KNEW which companies would survive, maybe so

Are the pharmapsedocals going out of business? Will house prices go so low that I will get a $500,000 2006 valued house for $100k? oh happy day for me.

Big Pharma out of business, maybe some of the companies, but strangely, there has been very little word as to how the economy is affecting Big Pharma. People will still need medicines, but if getting the raw materials to make them becomes expensive, so do the meds.

Homes are dropping value all over the world. While it may eventually be a buyers market, if you want that $500K home for $100K, you better grab some of that couple millions out of the bank and pay cash, because you probably won't be able to get a mortgage to buy the house.

What am I missing when it comes to the real effect this has on someone like me? That owes $125,000 in student loans and doesn't have an asset in the world? Will inflation make these loans easier for me to pay for in the future?

Absolutely not! Inflation will make EVERYTHING else so much more expensive (yet your wages will remain the same) that you will have less and less left over. So if you are stuck with a choice of that student loan payment or food, which are you gonna pick?

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Actually .. you are close to understanding except you think backwards..

Money is equity.. in another form .. currency to currency.

When your currency rises, imported items are cheap.. you live better.. on the down side, exported items cost more to outsiders.. so businesses can hurt..

When your currency decreases imported items cost much more, but exported items are cheaper.. at the right ratio jobs increase, money increases.. but then your currency increases.



If you store 500k in the bank, in 10 years, it may be worth more.. or less..

It is no different then the equity in your homes.. in your stock portfolios, your 401k .. even collectible items have equity.. they can be exchanged for a price.

Economics is a inaccurate and imprecise science.. and cannot be looked at with a narrow mind.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Will house prices go so low that I will get a $500,000 2006 valued house for $100k? oh happy day for me.

What I think people fail to understand is maybe those in the know are selling like crazy because they have the "foresight" to see what is coming. Could it be a terrorist attack in several cities in the US and around the world?

That would decimate the economy even more, and then what would happen if bank runs started, and the banks said, sorry...we don't have the money to give you and the govt says we don't have to keep reserves anymore, so we will still be in business until further notice though you can't have your money.

It seems very suspect don't you think? Why would all these formerly strong companies like GM and even bank stocks be falling so far so fast unless this was a possible scenario. And don't think the rich elite are ignorant to something BIG happening that will further drop our economy.

I really don't know, but it seems like this could be a valid argument on why the world markets are falling so fast. I sincerely hope not, but God help us if it does.

reply to post by redhatty


Medical sales, health treatment, insurances and pharamas have all seen profit increases.

Not every industry is effected by recessions, which of course I know you know, but just so everyone else does.

Rockpuck is always mysteriously absent from any discussion taking place between 9:30 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time, weekdays. Then he shows up giggling, steers the subject toward the issues of "accumulated wealth," mentions 125k whilst humming "We don't need no education" followed by something about The Wall.

Aah, that Rockpuck . . .

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by anachryon

Monkey see, monkey do.

TOUCHE !!!! In an effort to not make this a one liner, I will add that it's a chicken and egg thing but at this point it just doesn't matter. This cycle must be broken, however I just don't see that happening any time soon. Too many knee jerk reactions.

I like the market crash.
I live on a disability check.

The stores are hurting so bad right now and this crash will force them to cut prices to the bone just to sell there products.
By the way most products have a 200 to 300% markup over what it cost to manufacture and ship to the stores. So the companies will not lose money just will not make the profits they did before.

This is to my advantage.

This is the year to drive a hard bargain in buying.
When you buy try to get the stores to cut there price.

The closer to 2009 the more the prices must go down or the sales numbers will crash.

All this can be used by the consumers to strong-arm the stores.

A public that can organize to put pressure on the market place can control the market place.

The corporation world sets prices by what the market will bear.

If we don't pay there price they don't make money.

We are then setting the price.

We seen this in oil prices once the public started cutting there oil use back the oil bubble burst.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Banks are desperate.. anyone else notice their credit card's due dates fluctuating? ... Banks are moving due dates to incur late fees and hopefully over draft fees to rake it more money..

Yes Citi did this with me. I have been a cardholder for 17 years, never late. They moved the date up such that if I received the bill on Monday and paid it when I do my bills every Sunday It would not reach in time. I confronted them about it, and left them for greener pastures.

in my honest opinion - we are witnessing medium-term bottom formation.
it might be as simple as double bottom which Dow and S&P almost formed.

i suspect that many of the doomsday scenarios - including many of
those posted on ATS - were fabricated intentionally....
to cause fear, to make people sell in panic after a drop.

again, this is my opinion.
i also believe that ones retail investors are out, big ones will
silently gather shares and move them up - this time on fears
of global inflation.

think about it - how many 'end of the world' articles and posts
have you recently seen? someone is profiting from this....

best regards.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Money is equity.. in another form .. currency to currency.

Money (cash) is an asset. An asset that allows you to diversify assets (through purchasing power) which in turn increases equity (what is owned/benefited by the "owners" or people).

Assets=Liabilities+Equity

[edit on 15-10-2008 by RetinoidReceptor]