you make me sick,zeitgiest 2 disinfo

I agree, thought the film was rubbish, even alex jones movies are better than that. New age bull, is something the nwo wants us to believe.

The film was just rubbish, apart from decribing money.

Not worth it.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by logician magician]

reply to post by logician magician


Actually, you just proved in THIS post that you are a blatant liar. You have attempted to smear my name by making up lies about me. You have proven you are a troll and have been reported to the mods.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[edit on 7/10/2008 by Kryties]

Not worth it again. Go ahead, try your best.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by logician magician]

Guys, Can we get back on topic please?

Take it to Pm or just let the mods sort it out

[edit on 7/10/08 by blupblup]

reply to post by logician magician


Go for it. I would love to see this phantom PM that I did not send. In fact I will even post screenies of my outbox to prove I did not send it. Then I shall ask the mods to look over my records and prove to you I did not send it.

A liar is a liar is a troll.

ALL NOTE,


ANYMORE OFF TOPIC POSTS, BICKERING, SNIPING ECT, WILL RESULT IN WARNINGS.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by sanctum]

I'm sorry about that everyone, I should have known better to get baited into that with him.

I haven't had a chance to download the second film yet, so can someone describe how it advocates that we should "boycott the military" ? Do they just expect people to not join the service and... what, not get invaded because we don't have any defense?

I thought ok, sounds like a dream come true, but then I thought, who is going to fix the robots that clean the toliet?. And if we are all one, who will make things that make things and who will repair them. So its like ok, the book we had to read in school, ( I'm ok your ok) but its not ok. Crazy to think that people on the level they are at are even able to afford the things they have, as in the video. So who will make a sacrafice for him, I know I am a nice person, but cleaning his toliet, no way. I do not do toliets.Sure you say, you can repair the machine someone builds to clean the toliet but who is going to put their hands on it to even touch the messy machine that someone built that you have to repair. Then comes the clean issue of the whole procedure. Who is going to take the dirty rags and crap to a waste center and who is going to place it in and make it run. So many things that they do not tell you, how does one live utopia with out doing all the toliet cleaning. Sorry, but this came across my mind as I saw the man in the video who looked like obiwan.

Originally posted by zman
I thought ok, sounds like a dream come true, but then I thought, who is going to fix the robots that clean the toliet?.

I assume there would be robots who repair the robots.

Sure you say, you can repair the machine someone builds to clean the toliet but who is going to put their hands on it to even touch the messy machine that someone built that you have to repair.

By then I imagine that everything will be automated. Nobody will have to touch them because they'll be created in an entire automated factory. Even today, we have factories that are almost entirely automated. I think the answer to most of your questions could simply be "more robots"...

Robots all the way down!

reply to post by logician magician


The whole idea of boycotting the military is that the military is suggested as being used by the government to control those people who would seek to undermine or stand up against them taking away our liberties.

The film advocates that if society was changed according to what is suggested in the film, their would be no need for military as everyone would strive to better mankind, there would be no borders and therefore no need to 'defend' those borders.

Watching the film will give you all the answers you need rather than the dribs and drabs one can glean by reading posts.

Technology won't prove to be some road to utopia. Look at all the technology in our lives. Are our lives any better than our great grandparents, who could afford to raise 12 kids, had their own land, paid little taxes, and had only one person who worked? Now we're lucky to raise one kid, have an apartment to get out from momma's basement, and have both wife and husband working 2 jobs. Look at how oil is being bottlenecked, not through limited oil, but through limited refineries. Diamonds, also, aren't limited through supply. It's limited through refining. Look at all the redlight and speed cameras. Do those make our lives easier? Absolutely not. Technology won't save us. It'll only further enslave us. The people who are consolidating power aren't doing it to make more money. They already own all the money; they make it out of thin air. They're doing what they're doing now to redistribute any wealth that we plebs have managed to save up so we have to continue to work. They want us to continue to work so that we'll make this new fascist technocracy that the ruling elite have planned out, and this fascist technocracy will involve the biological chip, the mark of the beast, you can be sure of that.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by 1011010110]

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by logician magician

 

The whole idea of boycotting the military is that the military is suggested as being used by the government to control those people who would seek to undermine or stand up against them taking away our liberties.

The film advocates that if society was changed according to what is suggested in the film, their would be no need for military as everyone would strive to better mankind, there would be no borders and therefore no need to 'defend' those borders.

Watching the film will give you all the answers you need rather than the dribs and drabs one can glean by reading posts.

That certainly sounds like a double edged sword, and something that would only work were the UN to administer it world wide (which is one of their goals, eventually)

Beyond that, I imagine that we'd be left high and dry were an aggressive alien race to visit us.

I lean toward the notion that we're trying to unify the planet, but we're hitting many many road bumps. These is the price we pay - no pain, no gain... it's a humanistic tradition.

If you've ever seen the movie "Serenity" based on the "Firefly" series, it shows both sides of the equation rather well. Those for the unification are cold, reasoning, and logical, while the characters against it are more emotional, typical, every day people who just want to live their lives. This is of course similar to the way scary-robots-are-gonna-kill-us movies play out too.

The Operative in the movie says this, which perhaps reflects the notions of those really in control...

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.

The Operative: I do. If I have to.

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?

The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A
better world. A world without sin.

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?

The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

Could anyone here be evil so that their progeny could live in a better world?

reply to post by logician magician


From en.wikipedia.org...(film)#Themes_and_cultural_allusions

While the film depicts the Alliance as an all-powerful, authoritarian-style regime, Whedon is careful to point out that it is not so simple as that. "The Alliance isn't some evil empire", he explains, but rather a largely benevolent bureaucratic force. The Alliance's main problem is that it seeks to govern everyone, regardless of whether they desire to belong to the central government or not. What the crew of Serenity, and specifically Mal and his lifestyle, represent is the idea that people should have the right to make their own decisions, even if those decisions are bad.

The Operative embodies the Alliance and is, as Whedon described, the "perfect product of what's wrong with the Alliance".

At the very end of Serenity the Operative also has a change of heart.

Zeitgeist Addendum does not suggest the creation of another government persay, rather that we all work together equally to better and ultimately uplift society into a higher standard of existance.

Loved the movie and series by the way.

[/insert shameless plug for Joss Whedon to create series 2 of Firefly]

Originally posted by 1011010110
Technology won't prove to be some road to utopia. Look at all the technology in our lives. Are our lives any better than our great grandparents....

I know mine is. Where are you living, in the Ozarks? Are you Amish by chance?

Now we're lucky to raise one kid, have an apartment to get out from momma's basement, and have both wife and husband working 2 jobs.

The hard times we're in promotes defeatism. Don't let it get to you.

Look at all the redlight and speed cameras. Do those make our lives easier? Absolutely not.

They make mine easier in that I'm not getting surprised by a patrol surprise catching me speeding. With the cameras at least you know they can catch you, so just don't speed. Save yourself some money, before they put speeding cameras in my towns I had my license suspended a few times and revoked once because of tickets. They've effectively gotten me under control - in my own best interest!

Technology won't save us. It'll only further enslave us. The people who are consolidating power aren't doing it to make more money. They already own all the money; they make it out of thin air. They're doing what they're doing now to redistribute any wealth that we plebs have managed to save up so we have to continue to work.

You must have a low opinion of the world. Advances in technology have not further enslaved us, they've made us able to travel across the world faster and cheaper, able to instantly talk to someone anywhere in the world and share ideas at an astonishing rate. They've taken us to the moon, and to other planets. How can you say we're being enslaved by technology? We might be enslaving ourselves by sitting in front of the TV and internet all day! That has nothing to do with the elites. If you think someone is making you watch TV with a mind control device, then I don't know what to tell you other then set up some sensors to see if you really are detecting an EM waves.

They want us to continue to work so that we'll make this new fascist technocracy that the ruling elite have planned out, and this fascist technocracy will involve the biological chip, the mark of the beast, you can be sure of that.

Why? What could would it do for the elite to "enslave us"? It's also a bad idea to group the "elites" together like that. It's a slave mentality. If you were a black slave in America, there is a large possibility that you'd consider the whites to be the elites in that society, and clearly they weren't all evil. If you have not noticed, large groups tend to break up into factions with conflicting interests.

Especially with industry automation? As we get closer to the fruition of an NWO, robots and machines will be taking over more and more tasks (like the cotton gin changed cotton production). As AI gets more advanced, and computers become more powerful there won't be much left for us to do, so slavery would neither be practical or productive. Look at the black race in America, their lives have certainly gotten better

Forced here on boats -> enslaved -> indentured servants -> freemen -> segregation -> equals.

That looks like progress to me, not slavery. If the NWO wanted slaves, why release them?

You can consider what we're in "debt slavery" or you can consider that things cost money to buy, production and work needs to be done, and people don't generally like giving their hard earned cash away. We shouldn't even have any homeless people. The middle class could fix that problem, but we don't. Most all of us could afford to feed and cloth at least 1 homeless guy. Why not? Cause we use that money on Internet, cable, telephones, nice clean sheets, expensive plates... they are all obviously more valuable than people to us. We are disgusting in that regard. Humans. We don't care enough! It's not our problem, is it?

Well, we're being somewhat hypocritical if we think we are the upper-classes problem and that we deserve something from them. This is US, this is HUMANITY. We are exactly what we are seeing, and a lot of people don't like the reflection that is staring them in the face so they turn to some outside factor that they want to attach as the cause of it all - it usually turns about to be "them" It's like when we were kids, we'd also use the term "they" to refer to "whoever it was" that made the government work, did science, made laws, did anything we didn't understand, etc.. etc...

We still act like kids. We use "Them" to talk about the conceptual elites. CFR is "Them," the Bilderberger's are "Them" along with many other groups. It's the same ignorance displayed as small children - you simply don't know how these things operate, then you get scared, spread the message, and scare other people. When someone comes along to explain it to us, we say, "No, you are a liar because I've already made up my mind! You must be an agent!"

For a long time, "God" used to be the "Them" guy. He was the one that did everything. Then it was the witch doctors, shamans, magic, voodoo, curses, then came science, reason, government, and the government became "them" once we figured out how the government worked growing up, there just *must* be another "them" out there somewhere! I think the highest "them" we have now are REPTILIANS, right? Anything higher than that?

It would be in the elite's best interest to give us "plebs" the resources and freedom required to produce and contribute to the world and to each other. That's not something you get out of slavery, but maybe they'll just kill us! hehehe.

But why would they want to kill us when they need colonies for the moon and Mars? They'll need slaves to set everything up! It's really not practical to kill us if we're to advance our race off the home world so that when our sun goes supernova we all die for good because of poor planning. Just look at how space is getting more and more privatized, tickets will eventually cost as much as airplane tickets and we'll move 1/4 of the Earth's population to the moon while the freed up land is filled with resource producing factories, etc.. etc.. etc...

Kill us after that? I think not. They need crews for the asteroid mining ships too. Some people think the elites want to kill us, but that is only detrimental to the human species. Not going to happen.

Hear me now and believe me later.

Originally posted by Kryties
At the very end of Serenity the Operative also has a change of heart.

He didn't have a "change of heart" in the sense I'm thinking of, it was just that River wasn't a threat to the alliance anymore and the secret of Miranda was already out. Remember they were trying to hide the existence of the failed planet because of the gas or whatever that was introduced to make the people calm... and the signal was already broadcast from Mr. Universe's "cloud". There was no reason to get her back or kill the crew because they weren't a threat any longer. That's his cold logic, he didn't need revenge because apparently he had no ego to speak of. He also said he can't guarantee that the others won't come after him, suggesting that there may be more not-so-cold operatives.

Who knows, I wish the series was still on. I've watched every episode maybe 5 times and seen the movie about as much. Remember the episode with the crazy space ninja who thought River became the ship? Funny stuff.

reply to post by Kryties



Is zeitgeist 2 sort of like loosechange2/3 in it's format?

Or is it an entirely new movie?, not just one with 45 minutes of extra footage...


[edit on 7-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


It is an entirely new movie that deals with subjects not covered in the first one. It assumes you have watched the first one in order to get some of the points it makes though.

Originally posted by badmedia
At once point they are talking about nobody have to work - sounds great. But then they show all these inventions. And all these things that are built and such.

So exactly who is going to build this stuff if nobody is working?

It's a bit like the Douglas form of economics, otherwise known as "social credit." It has had a very bad press, & the only social credit government ever formed was deliberately destroyed by capitalists, but it was hugely popular prior to the 2nd war.

In essence the idea is thus: Everyone gets an amount of money from the government to provide a basic standard of living, there is only ever as much money in circulation as is needed to to provide all services, & no interest bearing loans (the govt controls money, not banks).

On top of that, you can work if you want to & recieve a wage as usual - so to get a better standard of living you can work too & get more money, but you don't have to.

The idea is that it allows people to live a more enjoyable life.

Its a lot to it than that, but thats the basic gist.

reply to post by Power_Semi


Uh huh, and who decides what the basic standard of living is? The government? What if someone is sick? Is their standard of living the same as everyone else's? Does a cancer patient get more money to maintain the same standard of living as everyone else? Does a brown-eyed person get more money so they can have the same standard of living as a blue-eyed? Shorter people make less money and are esteemed less by society than taller people, so what if shorter people want growth hormones? Are you going to give it to them for free?