Ireland - One of the 12 Lost Tribes of Israel?

Okay, really... all caps is unnecessary.

Second, I'm aware of all that genetics and migration stuff. The fact remains that no, the Irish are not the descendants of ancient hebraic tribes.

Also, the Hellenes were invaders from Central Europe. Though they were indeed Celtic, they didn't end up in the "heartland of the Celtic world".

TheWalkingFox 'The all caps thing' no sarcasm intended mate just my way of highlighting key points. In my opinion no the Hellenes did no return to the celtic heartland, but my understandidng of the celtic heartland being the Danube basin central europe more or less. However i do believe a minor fraction of hellenes did go to the most western territory of celtic lands being the british isles. Only after spending time in the east and to some extent mixing with other Indo Europeans and maybe semitic peoples, probaly through commerce maybe some even through marriage. In terms of the Ionian milesian people who were hellenic fought alongside Alexander the Great (330bc) and also against (RamsesIII) along with other indo european sea faring peoples. There is no evidence of milesians in central europe but yet there is in spain and ireland which is why i believe they came to the isles through a southern route rather than crossing central forested europe and left no trace.

Byrd i also disagree with the Jeremiah and princess Tea story there is no evidence. But a people called Dana were in Ireland. could they have mingled with hellenic celts? of whom had settlements not far away. I mean why were the tribe of Dan removed from the seal? was it because they began praticing paganism? and who did they get these pagan practices from? To my knowledge the Hittites, philistines, and tribe of Dan all had heavy Indo European influence, and seem to be a mixture of Semitic and non semitic.

mopusvindictus Shalom to you. Fascinating info there, you seem to have hit the nail on its head. There is evidence of the jews taking non jewish wifes, i've read of some jews taking Hittite wifes and so did some Egyptians, those hittite women must of been special LOL they were probaly like the Russian women of today, my last girlfriend was russian and i have very very fond memories if you know what i mean LOL . I also agree that there were red and blond haired pharoh's, most certainly in the north of egypt anyway. There is some evidence for this even in the Qur'an concerning Moses after he killed an egyptian, the surah below commences on his journey back to egypt after fleeing for the crime of murder.

Sura 28 History (AL Qasas)

(28:29) when he had fulfilled his obligation he travelled with his family back to egypt. He saw from the slope of mount Sinai a fire. He said to his family "stay here i have seen a fire, maybe i can bring to you news or a portion of the fire to warm you.

(28:30) When he reached it, he was called from the edge of the right side of the valley, in the blessed spot were the burning bush was located" O Moses this is me, god, lord of the universe.

(28:31)" Throw down your staff " when he saw it moving like a demon, he turned around and fled "O Moses come back to not be afraid you are perfectly safe

(28:32) "Put your'e hand into youre pocket, it will come out WHITE without hurt and guard your'e heart from fear, then these shall be the two proofs from you're lord unto pharoah and his chiefs, they are evil people.

Why would god turn Moses hand white as proof to the pharoah of moses'es lords divinity, maybe because moses was about to be tried in front of a white pharoah.. another interesting surah below concerning the pharoahs response to seeing moses and his white hand.

(28:36) When moses went to them with our proofs, clear and profound they said "This is fabricated magic, we have never heard of this from our ancient ancestors".

(28:38) Pharoah said "O you elders, i have not known of any god for you other than me. Therefore fire the abode O Hamaan , in order to build a TOWER that i may take a look at the god of moses...

There is no mention afterwards though of a pharoah instructing his masons to build a tower to look at god. I wonder we he got that idea from?

Also in the Hadiths which were written by Muhammads close followers Muhammad is mentioned as a white man..

Sahih al Bukhary vol.1 hadith no.63 "While we were sitting with the prophet a man came and said "Who amongst you is muhammad "We replied this white man reclining on his arms"

Vol.2 hadith no.141 The whiteness of his armpits are mentioned.

Vol.2 hadith no.122 He is mentioned as a white person.

Muhammad was descended of Abraham of course could he have been a caucasian jew??

Gardai! Ta se prainneach. Chaill me mo mhala.
Nil Gaeilge maith agam...

but still...now how does Irish Gaelic in anyway resemble those languages?

reply to post by Thewayshemoves


Good Question? So i will answer It does'nt resemble any Hebrew language. Human beings today can speak more than one language. Example in spain today there's lots of british people living there, but the dominant language is spanish!! Most literature being produced in and flowing out of the country is spanish. There is alot of people living there though which spanish is not there first language. BUT the dominant majority speak spanish, the dominant culture etc, is spanish

And finally.. Is Ireland as a whole one of the lost tribes of israel.. NO, did a remnant of the tribe of DAN go to ireland? the evidence say's YES....

Originally posted by Prima Facie
Byrd i also disagree with the Jeremiah and princess Tea story there is no evidence. But a people called Dana were in Ireland. could they have mingled with hellenic celts? of whom had settlements not far away. I mean why were the tribe of Dan removed from the seal? was it because they began praticing paganism? and who did they get these pagan practices from? To my knowledge the Hittites, philistines, and tribe of Dan all had heavy Indo European influence, and seem to be a mixture of Semitic and non semitic.

Edit to add.. I was wrong slightly about the influence of paganism, as it seems that all the tribes at one time or another practiced paganism, even before contact from non semites..

Can I saw I am Irish and live in Ireland.I have read so many mis representations of Ireland here.
The Irish are not just Celtic,there is alot of Viking blood,.
An Ancient Irish King married a foreign woman,thats all the story says,But it states how in the autumn she travelled up the mountain to talk to the man above,She was believe to be Jewish.The hill she travelled up was called Tara,In Gaelic it sounds very like Torah,as someone who grew in Ireland and learnt Irish,don't jump to the conclusion that becuase there are few links to between Irish and Hebrew that its not possible.After all,Ireland was a pagan state,when Christianity came it was enforced so any Jews here would have had to convert,the ancient Celts or Pre Christian Celts as they are called,had a belief in a one man god,
Lost tribes across the world have lost there Jewish culture,some more than others,Look at the Bnei Menashe.They look Chinese yet are now returning to Israel as a lost tribe. Irish culure was full of stories of tombs and rituals and altars,
There are records of Jews coming from Spain to an area in between Cork and Waterford.
The Irish have actually very little red haired people,no more than the UK or Sweden,Its an American love to imagine Ireland as a country filled with red heads.In fact you will find many Irish with very blond hair blue eyes,or dark skin and green eyes. All showing the influences of different peoples moving here.The Vikings lost their culture here,as the saying goes they became more irish than the irish themselves.The Normans too became Irish,surnames too changed from region to region and dialect,It might surprise many Irish americans to find out that the vast majority of Americans who claim Irish ancestory actually are claiming Ulster scottish heritage or Anglo Irish Heritage,The st patricks day celebrations were started by Ulster Scottish Presbytarians.Ireland was an Island,people came to ireland to trade and to study as it was known as the land of saints and scholars.Irish artifacts have been found in Egypt and likewise Egyptian monks have been buried here from centuries ago.So with this in conclude it could be possible the Irish have Jewish blood.The Irish on a hole I dont believe are the lost tribe,because all the tribes in Ireland mixed and married each other,

Originally posted by Prima Facie

Originally posted by Prima Facie
Byrd i also disagree with the Jeremiah and princess Tea story there is no evidence. But a people called Dana were in Ireland. could they have mingled with hellenic celts? of whom had settlements not far away. I mean why were the tribe of Dan removed from the seal? was it because they began praticing paganism? and who did they get these pagan practices from? To my knowledge the Hittites, philistines, and tribe of Dan all had heavy Indo European influence, and seem to be a mixture of Semitic and non semitic.

Edit to add.. I was wrong slightly about the influence of paganism, as it seems that all the tribes at one time or another practiced paganism, even before contact from non semites..

"Pagan" simply means "not Christian" in modern parlance (originally it meant "country practices"). ALL people (including those from Israel) were "pagan" at one time.

There was never a physical "seal" with the tribes of Israel listed on it. The visionary "seal" in Revelations is from a document that was written about 70 AD or so. This manuscript was added to the Bible in spite of a number of arguments that it should be left out of the Bible.

Why is the listing of the tribes so wonky? Good question. May have to do simply with the author's being unaware of them (after all, they'd been gone for well over a thousand years by the time he was writing.)

reply to post by Byrd


Like Atlantis the 12 tribes have been found or identified in most places on earth. Some DNA information:

Patrilineal descent can be documented by analysis of the Y-chromosome, passed from father to son. Of the many variants, or haplogroups, of the Y-chromosome, haplogroups J1 and J2, both originating from the Middle East, are the most common among Jewish men.

J2 is found in 23% of Ashkenazi Jews and 29% of Sephardi Jews. It is equally common among Muslim Kurds, Northern Iraqis, Modern Turks, Greeks, Italians, and Lebanese. J2 is thought to have originated in the Northern Levant.

J1 is found in 19.0% of Ashkenazim and 11.9% of Sephardim. It is more common among Arab populations, especially Arab Bedouins. J1 is believed to originate from the Southern Levant or Egypt approximately 10,000 - 15,000 years ago.

A variant of J1 and J2, called the Cohen Modal Haplotype, is found in a high proportion (about 65%) of Jewish males with the surname Kohen or its variants, less frequently among other Jews (25%) and other Middle-Eastern people (22% or less). Kohanim claim descent from Aaron, brother of Moses and the first priest of the temple. Aaron was from the house of Levi, the third son of Jacob.

Thus, genetic evidences support a levantine patrilineal descent for a small portion of Jews, which may represents descent from one of the Israelite tribes. The discovery of the Cohen Modal Haplotype gives more weight to the Biblical and priestly claim of descent from a unique ancestor, namely Aaron , and also provides an objective test of claims of Israelite origin, as for example with the Lemba people.
.

DNA

reply to post by Hanslune


Don't forget about the relatively high incident of TSACS in part of the Irish population.That disease is closely corrospondent in those of Jewish lineage.

reply to post by daddyroo45


About 1 in every 27 (3.7%)members of the Ashkenazi Jewish population carry the Tay-Sachs gene. What is the percentage in the Irish population and how does that compare to the world average for the Tay-Sachs?

There are NO lost tribes of Israel. After King Solomon, Israel split into two nations (Judea and Israel) and all the tribes were in one of those two camps.

There are lost "clans" and lost children. For instance, (Some Irish being descendents of Judah is NOT a new theory), after the exodus from Egypt, Shelah's clan (Judah's third son) went their own way. Having not been given Tamar in marriage, he married a cananite woman and thus, was exiled from what would become known as the house of Israel. They were makers of fine linen and their methods were very unique. This was recognized later in settlers in the region now known as Ireland; as well as their having documented the exodus story of the hebrews from Egypt. It is an interesting view of the exodus for sure. Sheds some new light on the events.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


indeed, famous Irish ballad refers to 'Dan'...

further interesting data from "The History of Ireland" book available on google:

"Brian lucharba and the great luchar
The three gods of the Sacred Race of Dana
Fell at Mana 16 on the resistless sea,
By the hand of Lugaidh son of Ethlenn."

books.google.com... yA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PRA1-PA140,M1

Based on some of the submissions on this thread,I'm starting to believe that the Farqarwee clan of pygmies that live along my riverbank,could in fact, be one of those lost tribes.

But then again,I could be wrong.

the irish are not a lost tribe of israel ( im an irish man with a good knowledge of my peoples history) we irish are a celtic scythian mix, with some nordic blood from the vikinging settelers scythia and scythians are mentiond a lot in our mythology nuada silver arm is said to hve had a scythian bodyguard

This could relate more to the bloodlines that are evident in the secret societies that went underground for many years, and are fascinated with all things Babylonian rather than evening out in the general population in large numbers.

I don't know about the "Lost Tribes" but I do know that these tribes were all hiding a very key fact, and yes, it connects to Ireland.

Moses was actually the Pharaoh Akhenaten. Akhenaten was the father of "Scota", the founder of the Scotti people (who then populated Scotland) as mentioned in Scotichronicon (1435) by Walter Bower. Bower's account of Scota is word for word the same as Nennius' (830AD monk) "History of the Britons" which also had verses about Scota taken from Esebius' "World Chronicle". It is St. Jerome who reveals that Eusebius' source was Euhemerus who visited Egypt in 300bc.

This Scota (whom the ancient Irish scotti people and Scotland and Nova Scotia were all named after) was Akhenaten's first daughter, Meritaten, who escaped Amarna and made her way eventually to Ireland. The Greek rendering of Akhenaten is Achencres which is the name Bower/Nennius use for Scota's father. Also the Book of Leinster (1150) mentions Scota, that she was a daughter of a Pharaoh, and that she landed in Ireland. Also there is Abbot Reimann (1050) "Biography of St. Cadroe which mentions "A certain Scota, daughter of a Pharaoh of Egypt"

I do happen to agree with the idea that the westward journey of Scota was a return to a 'homeland' of sorts for her family, that is to say, the family of Joseph (Yuya). I recommend the excellent book by Anna Wilkes, which is one of the best books examining the subject of ancient Irish words and names in the OT and particularly with Abraham and his origins.

I do not believe civilization came from Iraq and moved West. I believe seagoing peoples (early 'celts') were all over the Med around Abraham's time as a result of the Thera eruption creating opportunities for seaborne raids (a la the Sea People of Egyptian lore). I believe Abe was a sea captain and he accidentally(?) got his wife knocked up by the Pharaoh, and she gave birth to Isaac, and the rest is hidden history.

After Moses, it was the returning Ezran priests of the rebuilt temple who really created Judaism into what it is. After their time in Babylon, they knew they could build something great, and they did. I think that's when they really fleshed out their fake history of the Tribes and basically they also made up a fake list of Kings just like those who wanted to erase Moses from the other side of the equation. Both Egyptians and their biblical enemies, the Jews, made up false king lists. That is a fact.

Also, the King lists of Ireland (which were historical and true), were finally held only in the minds and tongues of the bards. These men were all killed so that the king lists would be lost. This was not a coincidence.

So really when you are researching this stuff, you should start at the earliest conspiracy, that of Moses himself, aka, Akhenaten.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by smallpeeps]