Who won tonights debate?

Both "take it easy on her, she's a lady," and "she's not qualified -- she has a vagina and this is a man's world," are BOTH incredibly discriminatory comments.

i agree. so are the comments meant to depict her as an idiot because she's attractive to some people, a mom, who has kids who play hockey, can shoot a gun, and so on. what the freak? those are non issues. she brings it up to show she's an average american and it isn't meant as a political statement. other people bring it up to show she's an idiot, as a political statement. they combine the ideas together in the same sentence, especially if you compare it to what's being said about this debate. what's that mean?

portraying her as a lunatic because she has a religious faith, is way off the richter scale, too. i thought it was pretty cool that obama was a christian, till i heard he wasn't terribly fond of some portion of my DNA that differed, however marginally, from his own.



[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by undo


I don't disagree; I have a 9-year-old daughter and what is waiting for her out there scares the bejesus out of me.

My question is how do you apply what you are saying to the debate/Ms. Palin, which is the topic of the thread.

Walk me through your thought process here.

reply to post by The Axeman


some of the comments on this thread are global. they are attempting to influence our thoughts and our policies on the subject. their perspective on the subject may or may not mirror the cultures from which they derive, and in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, i say, reader beware. it could be politically motivated as well. ya know?



[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

They can rebuild her...they can make her stronger.

Win or lose she will be back! Here is a reality check!




[edit on 3-10-2008 by Leo Strauss]

Originally posted by OralFixation
... the big winner is Sarah Palin because she improved her image. People expected Biden to have more answers, but Sarah performed a lot better than anyone thought she would.

I didn't know they scored debates on "improved image"!

There was and still is a "HUGE amount of room for her to improve her image! I actually would have felt bad for her if she would have done as bad in the debate as she had in other interviews she did.

I think Biden won, gave the best and more "in depth" answers.

This wasn't a contest to improve someones "image" or self confidence, it was a VP debate, it should be judged on what they said, the "meat" of their answers/arguments (if there was any) if you will, that shows that they clearly understand the questions and have intelligent answers for the questions and, in this case, prove that they are ready to become the Vice President of the US.

Palin didn't win the debate in my book.

Debate poll says Biden won, Palin beat expectations

A national poll of people who watched the vice presidential debate Thursday night suggests that Democratic Sen. Joe Biden won, but also says Republican Gov. Sarah Palin exceeded expectations.

Fox News - Biden Won Debate
Biden Dominates Debate According To CNN Undecideds


[edit on 10/3/2008 by Keyhole]

reply to post by Leo Strauss


confused. you mean the democrats can rebuild the economy?

This wasn't a pageant to improve someones "image" or self confidence, it was a VP debate

notice this person HAD to bring up some derogatory comment about her history as a beauty pageant contestant.

the inuendo is so deep, you can actually swim around in it!

reply to post by undo


That's just the word that popped into my head, sorry if it offended you!

No problem, I'll change the word to contest, still means the same thing!

message to women so far:

beauty is a no-no
ugliness is a no-no
moms are a no-no
kids who play hockey are a no-no
competiting in beauty pageants is a no-no
being able to shoot a gun is a no-no
being from alaska is a no-no
being a feminist is a no-no
being a non-feminist is a no-no
being white is a no-no
being black is a no-no

etc.

what the hell people, make up your minds!

you have succsesfully and completely turned me off from the democratic party, the only party in the two party system, i have ever voted for!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

As much as I hate to admit it, Palin did better than I thought she would. I still refuse to vote for her. She really did not answer anything, could not even get the Commanding General in charge of Afganistan correct.

To top it all off she had to turn around and say anyone who disagrees with her or McCain has raised the "white flag of surrender". We heard that bs too many times by too many idiots. Even Bush, Maliki, Patreuas all say the same thing these days.

I want someone smarter thanmyself running this country and if that means calling themselves "elitiests" so be it.

reply to post by capgrup


no, i will not sit still for being a robotic drone for an elitists club.
sorry

she definitely needs to rethink foreign policy, though, i agree with you on that.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by SR


the dinosaur comment was not a quote from her, but a claim made by a longtime, vocal critic.

gosh, why would he make such a thing up?

besides, since when is a knowledge of paleontology a qualification for v.p.?

speaking of dinosaurs...

there is still nothing that can replace oil yet, so in the meantime we should remain vulnerable to the fickle oil markets of the world?

is that what you're saying?

iran used to be a pretty good ally, until jimmy carter meddled with things, causing the islamic revolution, and now look what we have?

alliances can shift, there are real dangers, and we need to be able to respond to them. with something other than pacifism.

we are making real progress in iraq, which wouldnt have happened had we cut and run, like the idea the dem congress got themselves elected with.

they got it wrong, iraq will stabilise and look after itself and when it does we're outta there.

obama and biden were wrong about the surge. hows that for a grasp of foreign policy?

palin knew it would work, but hey, she's just a girl, what does she know?

reply to post by undo


To be fair, those are some of the things their campaign has highlighted in an attempt to win over "joe-six-pack" and "soccer/hockey/football moms" everywhere; and in some cases it's working. In others, not so much.

I agree with you that those things are superficial to some degree, and we are also in agreement (I think) that she has been painted in a somewhat off-color light because of those things by some people who took her highlighting those facets of her life as presenting them as qualifications... So, it's not like her opponents just picked those things out of nothing; she brought the "hockey mom" label (and others) to the table herself in her RNC speech, so you had to know people were going to run with those, in both directions.

It's rather sad that people choose to focus on those things rather than her accomplishments while in public office. Some of that, though, is her own doing.

reply to post by The Axeman


well if you're addressing america, do you isolate it to only one group?
there are hockey moms and joe six packs in every community, not just rural areas. i mean, to hear her detractors tell it, you'd think basketball, football, hockey and so on, are only heard about on farms in kansas or in the hills of tennessee.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

Biden won the debate.

Palin did not support her briefs (points) with anything besides rhetoric. She also did little to refute the briefs presented by Biden. She also went wildly off topic from the moderator's questions.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
Biden won the debate.

Palin did not support her briefs (points) with anything besides rhetoric. She also did little to refute the briefs presented by Biden. She also went wildly off topic from the moderator's questions.

DocMoreau

now this is a much more acceptable commentary and notice, he never once had to reference her gender, her motherhood, her children's sports activities or her appearance.

Originally posted by undo
we are in a global forum. some of the people responding and influencing american opinion on these topics, are from other places in the world, such as china, pakistan, india and so forth, where a woman's value is highly questionable. they would view women in the same sort of dim light as their society indicates. they are/can influence threads such as this with perspectives that are not only not american, they are inherently anti-woman and anythign to do with women.

look around. the western world is one of the last surviving vestiges of a culture that grew to revere and honor their women (which sadly, has changed over the last few decades, in lock step with the advent of rampant pornography).

The thing i've seen you arguing on this thread is a moot point.

Women have equal rights do they not???

So with that women have an amount of equal responsibility and equal scrunity.

Why are people anti-women for criticising someones tactics, gameplan and performance etc. etc. just because the person they are critcising is a woman.

We either all have equal rights or your a protected species infalliable to us lowly dogs having an opinion or being able to criticise.

Make up your mind cause it's a bad joke saying we have equal rights with one hand and stabbing us all in the back with the other hand playing the 'i'm a poor little defencless woman card' Which is obviously playing with a loaded deck and not equal rights at all.

This woman could possibly be the future president of one of the most important countries in the world everyone has a right to an opinion on her.

One of the things that angered me was her belief that our climate-change and melting of the polar caps are due to "cyclical environmental changes" that are a natural phenomenon. She did say that she believed we are doing harm to the environment...but fell short of saying that what we are observing is man-made.

To me that clearly indicates that she is aware of the problem, but is possibly attempting to remain favorable amongst the evangelicals and the far-right wing conservative base (lest i forget the oil companies).

reply to post by SciDoc


It's a hotly contested topic... Did human intervention and/or activity cause the Ice Age? I think not.

I'm just saying, nothing is so black-and-white as some try to make it...

reply to post by undo


Not if you want to be successful.

I think Ms. Palin has a much broader appeal than many give her credit for; despite the garbage being flung about, she's got something going for her here. And I think it gives liberals the heebeejeebees.

She didn't become governor of Alaska by winning a beauty contest, after all.

[edit on 10/3/08 by The Axeman]