Who won tonights debate?

i dunno if you fellas realize this but everytime you use the "mom" stereotype against palin, you are essentially saying moms are stupid. hello? you realize that's like 50 percent of the population here in the USA? (not in china, of course, in china it's like 30 percent and dropping.. they apparently don't like women there). so are you trying to attach the idea that having sex with a man and getting pregnant is the equivalent of stupidity? (cause ya know, that's how moms become moms).

the drill baby drlll t-shirt
i276.photobucket.com...
the, i'll drill that t-shirt
i276.photobucket.com...

from a feminist website (i swear i'm not a feminist!) but these ladies are making a whole lot of sense to me right now!!

The real sexism against Palin, like the designs above, has been the flip-side of the sexism against Hillary Clinton. A sadly perfect illustration of the Catch-22 women face. You're either a scary, ugly, old, mannish harpy. Or a ditzy, perky, _ _ _ _able bimbo. You're either cracking nuts between your thighs or dressed up like Britney Spears. The sexist remarks about Clinton and Palin are like our hate mail ("you ugly man-hater!" followed by "gimme a blow job!") writ large. It doesn't matter that, in reality, neither Hillary Clinton nor Sarah Palin fits these stereotypes. Both are attractive women who have made their fair share of political enemies. But reality doesn't matter much in terms of how they're portrayed.

www.feministing.com...

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

Gosh darn it, I actually wished it was a bigger train wreck than it was.

I did find it mildly entertaining. She kept flirting with the camera...wink wink. And actually she did look into the camera more than Biden, which for some reason was a bit weird for me...but that is just my humble opinion.

Also, she seemed too cartoony, and just not real. Almost like she was trying too hard to convince us that she is just "one of us" and that her and Todd sit around the kitchen table and discuss how to pay for health insurance....ummm PUHleeeeeeeeeez!

I actually didn't have much of an opinion on Biden before last night. But yes, he was quite boring in comparison to Palin. But I think he did a good job, and I found him to be quite appealing. Definatley someone with experience. I did feel a bit sad for Biden when was talking about his wife and daughter being killed....and a bit shocked by the lack of sympathy from Palin when the rebuttal jumped back to her.

Palin asking for more power. God help us...we don't need an evangelical ultra conservative Dick Cheney in any sort of power right now.

Oh...did anyone else notice how Biden reffered to Bosnians as "Bosniacs"???hahhahaa good grief.

Originally posted by mikesingh
Smart, fluid and relentless, experienced, clued up and confident. Yeah! I'm talking about Biden.

i have to agree, he was very adherent to the script, a rare thing for him, but a guarantee against the typical buffoonery that defines his appearances.

Palin looked amateurish to say the least. She was completely out of her depth where foreign policy was concerned. Even a moron could have made out that she had mugged up her script but flew aimlessly all over unfamiliar terrain looking for a target, but failed.

oopsie, your bias is showing... are you suggesting that 'plugs' biden just winged it? yeah, i thought not.

Her knowledge is extremely superficial where foreign policy is concerned. Now having said this, is this what one expects of a potential presidential of the US of A in a worst case scenario? Can I imagine a hockey mom with unkempt hair with little or zilch knowledge of foreign affairs, as the commander in chief and president of the most powerful nation in the world? NO!

if a horndog womanizing governer from arkansas can do it, a woman who also runs a family in addition to posessing executive leadership experience should have little trouble... but what about someone with a tiny fraction of her experience?

like obama?

Shooting a moose in the butt isn't the only qualification for Vice President of the United States!

i dont recall anyone ever suggesting as much, well, except for clueless obamadroids, that is.

sarah palin was right on, and showed that she is the better choice.

biden gets a pass, why? double standards... and bias, the moderator was even a gushing obamadroid:

VP Debate Moderator Gwen Ifill Is Over-the-Top Obamunist

At this point the liberal media can dispense with any pretense of objectivity when it comes to moderating the debates — so it has:

Questions are being raised about PBS anchor Gwen Ifill's objectivity after news surfaced that she is releasing a new book promoting Barack Obama and other black politicians who have benefited from the civil rights struggle.

Ifill is moderating Thursday night's vice-presidential debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin. Her book, "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama," is due to be released about the same time the next president takes the oath of office.

As if being a PBS propagandist and published Obamophile isn't enough, Ifill has a clear financial motive to do her insidious best to get the Left's messiah elected. As the hardly conservative Juan Williams observes:

Clearly her books aren't going to do as well unless Obama wins, so it looks like she has some investment, literally, in one candidate or the other. And she's supposed to be sitting there as a neutral arbiter during the debate. I think the world of Gwen Ifill but I know there's a perception problem.

Kind of like the perception problem you might have if Hitler was in a debate, and the moderator was Joseph Goebbels.

Source

Originally posted by undo
i dunno if you fellas realize this but everytime you use the "mom" stereotype against palin, you are essentially saying moms are stupid. hello? you realize that's like 50 percent of the population here in the USA? (not in china, of course, in china it's like 30 percent and dropping.. they apparently don't like women there). so are you trying to attach the idea that having sex with a man and getting pregnant is the equivalent of stupidity? (cause ya know, that's how moms become moms).

Frankly, your inept posts might help to perpetuate the very stereotypes you attempted to combat.

My wife is a mom of two and I don't see how that fits into ANY "stereotype".
I'm not going to venture into analysis of your nonsensical discourse on "stupidity".

reply to post by buddhasystem


then read what the feminists say?
or are they all stupid too?

and moderators? THAT post from buddha system, is a personal attack. not me asking SR if he was from china!

Palin won IMHO,

the end

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Biden was totally in command of the facts while Palin simply repeated phrases and slogans.

the capacity for denial among the true believers is truly an amaziong thing to wintess.


Joe Biden's 14 Lies


no persuading anyone with facts, when their minds are already made up

reply to post by feydrautha


I've admitted Obama has glaring flaws i never entered this thread stating anything but.

The source on the dinousaurs comment:

www.latimes.com...

Foreign oil?? What about bio fuels, electric, hydrogen?? many examples to start looking more seriously into think laterally the billions wasted in Iraq could of been used in new fuel development.

Yes let's destroy a whole enviromental landscape because oil is there. Instead of looking and investing in new fuels.

Pakistan one of the USA's former best friends and Russia who have merely mirrored USA actions on the world's stage are the worlds enemys now???

It's nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black i'm afraid luckily everyone else around the world is not as deluded as to think otherwise.

On the financial crisis you may want to argue your point on this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Who would you rather have in office as well someone who wants to keep a costly occupation going and throwing tax dollars down the drain while raising taxes???

or someone who wants to pull out save the dollars and although having to raise taxes can afford to make concessions here or there.

'polls are routinely exposed as highly inaccurrate, pay attention'

And asking a few random joes members of the public at a football game is even less accurate.

Originally posted by SR
Condi and Hillary are amazing female politicians...

Oh dear God; I just threw up in my mouth a little...

I don't think there was a clear "winner" in this debate. Both candidates presented themselves very well and it was all nicey-nicey and all that.

Substance? I thought Ms. Palin did herself and her ticket justice. I'm not a huge McCain fan... in fact I wouldn't say I'm a fan at all... but I'm not an Obama fan either.

Several of you have said that Ms. Palin was dodging questions, going around in circles, etc. I didn't see that. What I saw was a skilled debater who recognized the "throw me under the bus" questions for what they were and reacted accordingly.

The achilles' heel question is a prime example. Of course she's going to deflect that kind of question! I thought she did a tremendous job of highlighting her strengths and downplaying her weaknesses, and her folksy mannerisms, which some people seem to think is inappropriate, I think went a long way toward identifying with the average American.

Biden did what he was supposed to do: Play nice with the lady, hammer McCain. He made a conscious effort to adress her as "Governor Palin" while the whole time referring to him as simply "John." Does that bother me? No. It's just an observation.

I don't agree with all the policies of either party/ticket; but I am a Republican (not a neo-fascist "Republican" like some I could name) and in all honesty I will probably vote Republican simply because overall I feel that the policies of the Democrats will weaken our country even further.

Neither is the "right" choice, but unfortunately we are pigeonholed into this by virtue of the system.

Do I think Ms. Palin is qualified to be VP and/or President? No more or less than Mr. Biden. Yes, Biden has been in the Senate a long time, but he has no executive experience, so to me, that just solidifies his position as a "Washington insider" rather than gives him an edge with regard to experience. If Ms. Palin were to be thrist into the role of Numero Uno, I think she has the wherewithall to surround herself with people who will help her to get the job done, in any case. I have no doubt that she could and would rise to the occasion.

Who won the debate? Again, I don't think there was a clear "winner" in the traditional sense; that being said, I think Ms. Palin did much more for her ticket than Mr. Biden did.

Of course, that's what was supposed to happen. The media has been setting it up to go down that way for the last week. I think it's disgraceful, personally, but nothing the media does anymore surprises me.

Statistics and polls don't mean squat. Remember, Ron Paul won every debate he participated in according to the polls -- the media, however, simply dismissed it and moved on. It's all a dog and pony show, folks.

Vote your conscience, that's all we can do. The debates mean little until you get down to a personal level; what did you (the individual) think about it? I don't care what the pundits say.

It'll all come out in the wash... and not to be a sourpuss, but we're royally screwed like never before anyway, so...

I'm still waiting to see if the current Assministration is going to pull the emergency/crisis/false flag rabbit out of the hat and suspend the elections altogether.

Now there's a scary (and terrifyingly possible ) proposition...

Not sure why some of you are saying Palin had no substance... I'll keep a running tally on her substance as of 11 minutes in...

-Barack Obama and Joe Biden voted for the largest increase in taxes in US history.

-Barack Obama had 94 times to side with the people and vote for no new taxes or vote to cut taxes and didn't.

-Barack Obama supported raising taxes as recent as last year for families with an income of 42,000 dollars.

-As mayor she reduced taxes every year, she eliminated personal property taxes, small business inventory taxes, suspended state fuel tax

-Barack Obama plans to increase taxes on top of the trillion dollar spending plan he has already proposed.

-John McCain is proposing a 5,000 dollar credit for families to purchase their own health care package.

-John McCain also wants to erase state lines [in terms of health care plans] so if you find a better plan in another state, you can buy that one.

-Barack Obama voted for the bill in 05 that gave the tax break to the big oil companies. (Joe Biden's smile confirms it lol)

-She was the first governor to establish a sub cabinent on climate change.

-Alaska is building a nearly 40 billion dollar natural gas pipeline which is America's most expensive infrastructure project.

-Barack Obama voted against funding for troops even after he promised he wouldn't. (1.6 billion dollars)

Well, I got to the hour mark, and I'm too tired to keep watching it, but I'm sure you get the point that Sarah Palin did say stuff of content, and there's a whole half hour left that I may get around to watching at some point.


My Commentary as I'm watching...

The way Joe Biden smiled at Sarah Palin made me think he has a little bit of admiration and a crush on her.. his smile made me crack up every time he did it.

Joe Biden showed good character by giving credit to Palin for supporting the Win Fall profit tax. However, why should the government be allowed to tell a company what they do with their profits? That's socialism, and its dangerous.

"Energy independence is the key to America's future"- Sarah Palin. Couldn't have said it better myself...

Joe Biden believes global warming is man made, therefore delusional.

Wow, I was extremely surprised that Joe Biden does not support gay marriage, which is one of the issues that I was really caught up on about whether or not I was going to vote for Obama and Biden.

Palin claims that Obama's plan of a 16 month withdraw of troops is a white flag retreat, which I do not agree with at all. I would support an even faster withdraw of troops. If you don't define what victory is, then you can never achieve it.

I'm about 53 minutes into the debate and Palin's just starting to get annoying now.



[edit on 3-10-2008 by Ketzer22]

I think Biden won this debate, hands down.

Palin did okay, and after a shaky start she did seem to find her footing. However, all she did was parrot talking points.

Biden, on the other hand, seemed to be shooting from the hip. While l'm sure both candidates had answers prepared ahead of time, Biden didn't come across as scripted like Palin did.

Also, Biden knows what the hell he's talking about.

Palin needed to be sent to debate boot camp to get a leg up on national issues.

Originally posted by undo
i dunno if you fellas realize this but everytime you use the "mom" stereotype against palin, you are essentially saying moms are stupid. hello?

Says who? You haven't met MY wife! Jeez! She's the one who wears the pants in the house!

you realize that's like 50 percent of the population here in the USA? (not in china, of course, in china it's like 30 percent and dropping.. they apparently don't like women there).

Huh? 30% women? Hmmm...Is polyandry rife in an overpopulated China? Or how do so few produce so many? Wow! I mean it doesn't add up, what?

Cheers!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by mikesingh]

reply to post by mikesingh


well they had alot of people because the previous know-it-all told them to go forth, be fruitful, multiply and subdue the earth in the name of china. then when it was apparent they weren't going to be able to feed them all, the new know-it-alls instituted the one child policy which has resulted in the deaths of so many female children and unborn females, that they estimate an entire generation of chinese men will grow to adulthood without ever having the chance at a relationship with a woman.

here's a wiki quote

Societies that practice sex selection in favor of males (sometimes called son preference or female deselection) are quite common, especially in The People's Republic of China, Korea, Taiwan,India, Pakistan, New Guinea, and many other developing countries in Asia and North Africa [1][2]; sex selection in favor of females appears to be rare or non-existent, although some legends of Amazons say that they practiced male infanticide. In 2005, 90 million women were estimated to be missing in seven Asian countries alone due, apparently, to prenatal sex selective abortion.[3]

here's a bit of info on the chinese orphanes, which are apparently filled with females.
acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

so yeah, i wouldn't be letting some of these other countries influence whehter we vote for women or not, since they give women the value of a ..well let's put it this way, their cows have more value.

I'm sorry -- WTF does the social status of women in China have to do with the VP debate?

I get where you're coming from undo, but time/place, yeah?

[edit to remove possible condescention]

Sorry undo... I think we agree with one another I just think the thread is veering a bit...

[edit on 10/3/08 by The Axeman]

reply to post by The Axeman


how people view the debate is not just based on party lines, it's based on
a desperate plea to discrimination and the willingness to listen to that plea. it's everywhere, not just on the issue of
gender but race as well. it's real ugly. the last thing we need are global
positions being taken up by our local people. i, for one, don't want the mores of china to be the mores of americans, when the topic touches on the subject of women and their inherent value to society. obviously, in places like china, a woman's value to society is held in very low regard and especially if population control is the topic.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by The Axeman

 

how people view the debate is not just based on party lines, it's based on
a desperate plea to discrimination and the willingness to listen to that plea.

Not sure I understand; can you expand on that a little?

it's everywhere, not just on the issue of gender but race as well. it's real ugly. the last thing we need are global positions being taken up by our local people.

The last thing we need is unrelated topics and issues further muddying the already swampy waters.

i, for one, don't want the mores of china to be the mores of americans, when the topic touches on the subject of women and their inherent value to society. obviously, in places like china, a woman's value to society is held in very low regard and especially if population control is the topic.

But we're not talking about China here, we're talking about the USA and the VP debate.

Is there some discrimination going on with regard to Ms. Palin? Of course! This is America, and everyone discriminates against something, even if it is in a positive tone!

Both "take it easy on her, she's a lady," and "she's not qualified -- she has a vagina and this is a man's world," are BOTH incredibly discriminatory comments.

The focus here should be who you think won the debate; not American (or Chinese) society's regard for women, whether it be positive or negative.

we are in a global forum. some of the people responding and influencing american opinion on these topics, are from other places in the world, such as china, pakistan, india and so forth, where a woman's value is highly questionable. they would view women in the same sort of dim light as their society indicates. they are/can influence threads such as this with perspectives that are not only not american, they are inherently anti-woman and anythign to do with women.

look around. the western world is one of the last surviving vestiges of a culture that grew to revere and honor their women (which sadly, has changed over the last few decades, in lock step with the advent of rampant pornography).