ATS and Robbie Williams UFO Investigation: Round Two of Gilliand Videos

Hi Johnny,

Could you please post the geographical coordinates of the exact spot where you were filming ?

Talking about the wind...

Problem is that even if you guys use a personal weather station connected to your computer with both clocks set at the exact same time, you still wouldn't know what the exact speed and wind direction (wind layers) is 30 ft (10 m) up for example.

The speed of the wind rises with altitude, where it is less affected by the friction of the ground and obstacles. This difference is discernible even over a relatively short distance.

Another problem is that wind can change direction rapidly. How many of you guys noticed how the smoke change direction while doing a bbq or a camp fire when you are not close to it ? (otherwise you create a vacuum effect and if you move, the smoke moves as well and it seems that it keeps "following" you)

Just to say that unfortunatly the wind direction that you mentioned is not
reliable and imo it is gonna be hard to rule out the flying seed hypothesis for (some of) your video capture(s), specialy the one(s) that "look(s)" like it.

Here is a visual comparison (sort of) :



Now, it's up to video experts to tell us how we can differentiate the two...if it is not possible, I think Occam's razor will do the rest in this case.

Cheers,
Europa aka Buck



[edit on 4-10-2008 by Europa733]

reply to post by Springer


Super work boys, i hope this makes you come back fully loaded with equipment that mite get a decloaked look at what was doing recon on your camp.
K.

Originally posted by Europa733
Could you please post the geographical coordinates of the exact spot where you were filming ?

First off, I really appreciate you spending some time on helping us in trying to figure out what it is that we may have captured. Like yourself, I'm a big Occam's Razor" fan... And I did meter the wind and moisture on that day and for the two largest captures that have been presented, they were on two of the windiest days while I was there with winds hitting up to 30 mph coming from the NorthWest. Now I don't believe that during the period of these two captures that the wind was blowing at 30 mph.

I don't know if I'm following you correctly about your query on the geographical coordinates but this is what I can share.

Longitude: -121.49576 Latitude: 45.98969

The physical address being:
172 Little Mt. Road
Trout Lake, WA 98650

172 Little Mountain Rd, Trout Lake, WA 98650-9721

My location for this camera was beneath the large Pine trees. Although I have no direct photograph I do have some telephoto shots of the area where the camera was located at. I wanted the shade of the large Pine trees to protect the cameras.





Below is a TerraServer Shot from 1994 of the Ranch. North would be at the top of the picture.




I'd like to add that for the next week, I went on a religious hunt for any and all particulates that might have been similar to whatever was captured. But in my entire 2 weeks there we only saw one of those "Cottonwood like seeds" and it was the one I used in the comparison video. The land (except for echanachia) is made up of almost entirely of Pine Trees. I tried to find the source of that one "CottonWood-like" Seed but found no trees or bushes that may have produced such. In fact it's solely by chance that I even saw the one that we ended up using in the particulate section video. I was doing an interview with the Producers, and suddenly here came floating along ever so slowly that CottonWood-like seed. I jump up out of my chair as I'm yelling to the Producers to forgive me for a second. I'm sure they must have thought me 'nuts' as their interviewer is running and jumping in the air trying to grab that little floating seed. I finally catch it and come back huffing and puffing being out of breath trying to catch that darn thing, they don't say a word. I finally exclaimed that I had captured something a few days prior and was trying to find anything that might look like it for comparison. I still think that they thought I was nuts...LOL.

Anyway back to the analyzing...
Part of the problem I have with accepting the notion (with 100% certainty) that this is indeed a CottonWood-like seed, is the apparent speed of the object, the trajectory of the object, the object going against the wind, the appearance that it may be traveling past and behind the trees, and the fact that I was hidden under some very large and dense Pine trees that I think would've prevented a CottonWood-like Seed to have gotten near the camera. In hindsight I wish I had taken a photograph of my exact location (sigh).









[edit on 10/5/2008 by JohnnyAnonymous]

Concerning the audio recorded near Mt. Adams, some of us (myself included) have looked at more mundane explanations. I was thinking, maybe we can do it the other way around. Supposedly these UFOs work on anti-gravity and although I'm not an engineer of any kind I would assume the machinery requires energy and that the 'alien apperatus' itself works on electromagnetism. That could have produced the sounds.
Maybe we can compare the audio recorded by Johnny and compare it to known sounds created by Earthly machinery (maybe powerful electromagnets) and see if there are similarities.

Just an idea.

saw all the videos and were quite interesting. The ATS team is doing an amazing job with the analyzing of the video and audio clips. I also liked the video where you took the ball and the can and the dandelions and threw them up in the air to see if the recordings could've been frabricated or if they were in fact "natural". I still don't know what to say about all this, but it is indeed very interesting. Thanks!

i made it in my fantasy and i believe it!

hi guys,

the sounds............. have you or if not is there anyway that you could measure the frequeincies in hz as this may give a bigger clue to what the noise is, as for the rest I can not really comment and it seems you all have enough to be going on with what I am intreaged about it the blue globe the one in the photo shown in the first interview and the blue globe that is talked about by another who is in the photo with the blue globe,
serin sister

Originally posted by ccgg77
saw all the videos and were quite interesting. The ATS team is doing an amazing job with the analyzing of the video and audio clips. I also liked the video where you took the ball and the can and the dandelions and threw them up in the air to see if the recordings could've been frabricated or if they were in fact "natural". I still don't know what to say about all this, but it is indeed very interesting. Thanks!

I've had many people say that once I got out there in front of the two big trees, that they could not see me throwing the can or the medicine-ball up in the air. And hence this proves that if you could not see those items a quarter-mile away, then how can we say that it's a bird/bug flying around the tree? This is of course if after analysis by professionals, we can indeed say that some of these objects were traveling great distances in a short amount of time. In the meantime, it's still all conjecture on anyones part.

Originally posted by serin sister
hi guys,

the sounds............. have you or if not is there anyway that you could measure the frequeincies in hz as this may give a bigger clue to what the noise is, as for the rest I can not really comment and it seems you all have enough to be going on with what I am intreaged about it the blue globe the one in the photo shown in the first interview and the blue globe that is talked about by another who is in the photo with the blue globe,
serin sister

I believe about three or four pages back someone said they had run the sounds through a spectral analyzer and came up with a base frequency of around 170k (don't quote me on that). The people we've submitted it to have not been able to start yet on the analysis (were standing in line to other projects..lol). But of course as soon as they have been analyzed, we will be posting their results..

For any tech-heads out there that are audiophiles or really familiar with the use of frequencies, I have a link to be able to download a powerful stand-alone Spectral Frequency Analyzer if you U2U me. But I really only want true techies to contact me please.. no want-a-be's. Please include in the U2U your qualifications and a brief bio/history of your work because we will be expecting you to post your results for everyone..

Johnny

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
I've had many people say that once I got out there in front of the two big trees, that they could not see me throwing the can or the medicine-ball up in the air. And hence this proves that if you could not see those items a quarter-mile away, then how can we say that it's a bird/bug flying around the tree?

I doubt that proves anything really. While I couldn't see the tin can, the medicine ball was very easily observed. If you refer back to my comments on the experiment, located on Page 6 of this thread, you will find a logical explanation of the event.
NephraTari then commented that an out of focus bug or dandylion seed would not be seen to travel behind the distant trees. The question whether this object actually goes behind the trees or not is highly subjective. However, it is a well known phenomenon that defocussed images can appear to be much further away and even seem to pass behind known distant objects which are themselves in focus. The debarcle over the STS-75 tether incident, involving David Serada's giant UFOs, is a prime example.
What is seen in the video can be explained by applying the laws of optics and statistics to the events which are most likely to have occurred. A windblown seed could easily move the short distance across frame, whatever the apparent direction of the airflow on the macro scale and a passing bug would have no such problems.
There is a lot of evidence in the videos that flies/bugs were in abundance during the sessions. They are seen and heard in many of the shots. How statistically unlikely is it that what passed across the field of view on this occasion was not a fly or bug? Pretty miniscule I would suggest.

WG3

Originally posted by waveguide3
I doubt that proves anything really. While I couldn't see the tin can, the medicine ball was very easily observed. If you refer back to my comments on the experiment, located on Page 6 of this thread, you will find a logical explanation of the event.
NephraTari then commented that an out of focus bug or dandylion seed would not be seen to travel behind the distant trees. The question whether this object actually goes behind the trees or not is highly subjective. However, it is a well known phenomenon that defocussed images can appear to be much further away and even seem to pass behind known distant objects which are themselves in focus. The debarcle over the STS-75 tether incident, involving David Serada's giant UFOs, is a prime example.
What is seen in the video can be explained by applying the laws of optics and statistics to the events which are most likely to have occurred. A windblown seed could easily move the short distance across frame, whatever the apparent direction of the airflow on the macro scale and a passing bug would have no such problems.
There is a lot of evidence in the videos that flies/bugs were in abundance during the sessions. They are seen and heard in many of the shots. How statistically unlikely is it that what passed across the field of view on this occasion was not a fly or bug? Pretty miniscule I would suggest.

WG3

I agree with "some" of what you present. What I'd love to have before I comment further is a link (or pdf) that explains and goes into detail on your quote:
"can be explained by applying the laws of optics and statistics to the events which are most likely to have occurred." This hopefully by an accredited person in the field of optics please..

And by the way, there were not really that many bugs. I only presented the few captures that I could find in the two weeks worth of recording. Birds, yes.. Bugs.. not so much..

Thanks!

reply to post by Springer


the only thing i can honestly put those strange noises to is a similar sound heard from outer space vibrats, but where on earth i no lol maybe check you equipment? appart from thaat im bafled vibration is the only thing i can sugest.....

Hi JA. I asked back in the old thread about the Ley Lines and whether there has been any investigation on whether in fact the ranch and in particular the pyramid James has built does indeed lay on an intersection. All I have found is that you have written below the video's that it has not been able to be confirmed.

Are there any Ley experts out there who can shed some light on to this? Are they Ley overlays we can punch into google earth or something? I have found the UVG Grid (www.vortexmaps.com...) but I don't think they are the same things. I would be very interested to know of other locations that have these ley line intersects and maybe even record more footage using similar equipment and listen for similar noises.

I agree fully that these sounds do not appear to be insects but they do share a large resembelence to the translated sounds of earth and other planets from radio signals. If insect noise was the case, why wouldn't the other camera have picked it up? To me, the sounds captured appear to come closer to the location of the camera then move away at a fairly constant velocity.

So what from here? How do we discount the possible causes of these sounds? How about setting up some (def more than 1) camera's within the pyramid and see if anything is captured when James does the invitation? That way we can rule out hardware malfunction if more than one camera can capture the sounds and being inside can rule out insect noise. Maybe some outside cameras can be used too at the same time.

I have watched the Paranormal State episode too, wow, you cynics must have a field day watching something like that. My favourite quote while hunting the "beast" in the woods "Get my knife ... IM SCARED (cries), no wait ... oh I guess it's just water... it sounded like something .. really bad".

IF everything is discounted and the sound remains a mystery. Why are the sounds in this video and sounds of planets from space (converted from radio waves) so similar? Are we hearing the sounds of some sort of vortex or something? Or some sort of invisible vessel resonating? I unfortunately feel that we will never know, because how do you prove something like that even exists?

As always we feel we are getting closer to some sort of proof or truth when we get more mysteries and questions.

Thanks for your hard work and scientific approach JA, keep it up.

my eyes are wide open

[As usual, you folk are doing some terrific investigative work and I thank you for it! I only listened to the first few minutes of video 7, and starting at 2 minutes and 37 seconds could hear what sounds like a cow moose and her yearling calf.

Just for fun, and not knowing entirely what I was doing, I thought I'd try to do a little frequency analysis of the sounds. Just to see what I could come up with.
And this is it:



I took fairly random samples of the first two sound instances (the grey areas on the top waveforms) and got the frequency distribution curves on the bottom.

One thing is pretty clear, even to an uneducated dope like myself, is that that the frequency curves from the two different events are remarkably similar. Of particular note is the curious spike in the curve exactly at 11997 Hz in both samples. It may be a harmonic from the other spike situated around 1600 Hz, which has a companion spike at around 1175 Hz.

If anybody wants to poke around with these things themselves, I'm using Audacity 1.3.3. I don't know what kind of conclusions can be drawn, other than it appears that for at least the first two events recorded, we're looking at the same thing making the noise.


Edit to add: After looking at some of the other waveform examples, it turns out that they're all pretty much the same, particularly with that odd little peak in frequency at 11997 Hz. So we're definitely talking about the same thing here, or several identical things, making the noise.

Also, no Doppler. So whatever it is, it's stationary, too.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Nohup]

If this has been posted already please let me know I will remove it ....

reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous


definatly sounds like feedback, with a very small delay as well. though how any feedback occured when you didnt have a speaker or headphones giving out sound i dont know.
i did at first wonder wiether your AGC (automatic gain control) on the camera audio was playing up. but then the voices come through pretty clear.

as for the video, pity there is no way of having the camera facing a weather monitoring station display at the same time, showing wind speed and direction. just to know for sure that the flight was against the wind at the time....

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
as for the video, pity there is no way of having the camera facing a weather monitoring station display at the same time, showing wind speed and direction. just to know for sure that the flight was against the wind at the time....

I guess this just goes to show how difficult it is to really consider all the variables before heading out into the field and setting up cameras. The result is similar to what you get from your typical "Ghost Hunters" episode. Odd things that might or might not have conventional explanations, but can't be explained because the set-up is flawed and a lot of the environmental variables are not taken into account.

Of course, in the field, it's almost impossible for every single little thing to be controlled. But a simple thing like having a synchronized stereo camera setup to do triangulation seems like a basic thing to consider if you're really going to do a serious video work like this. After all, how many times on this very site have photos been presented and debated, and no decent analysis can be done because there's just not enough information there to work with? How many times does it have to be said that photos or videos alone are extremely lousy pieces of evidence unless they're backed up by other evidence, whether that's multiple images from different viewpoints, or (in the best case scenario) hard physical evidence causally linked to the images?

I mean, really, aside from the source not being anonymous , what makes these videos any better than your average YouTube clip of some random light in the sky?

[edit on 7-10-2008 by Nohup]

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


also to DIMENTIONAL DETECTIVE
also to ANYONE

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thank you all for concidering what i said about having dorothy listen to the sounds.. i personally felt as if this would bring closure to me and others like me who actually are taken aback by the dorothy izatt phenomenon.

ATS is truly the real deal and my HAT IS OFF to dave for taking the sounds a step further..

i have full confidence in ATS and members like these fine people..

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
When after first hearing the sounds at Gillilands, the first thing I did was to search for perhaps electrical wiring or some type of RF signal in that particular area of the field.

I have been thinking about your search for electrical utility lines and usually everything is above ground stretched across towers or poles. Sometimes a complex of houses or apartments bury all the U/T lines but either way this can be confirmed by locating any telephone poles or an under ground vault on the access road. From here the service line should go straight to the meter on the house. I did a quick search on wiki-

Electricity is usually transmitted over long distance through overhead power transmission lines. Underground power transmission is used only in densely populated areas because of its high cost of installation and maintenance, and because the high reactive power produces large charging currents and difficulties in voltage management.

Source-Wiki. There is also a Power Grid Map.

Even if there was some electro-magnetic disturbance from any power cables I don't think it would make that kind of noise, maybe a blank spot on the tape like you said earlier. As for microwaves and radio waves how could they become audible sound simply by recording them?

I have a couple questions about the camera equipment used. Your Sony camcorder was the only analog device there, does that include the Paranormal Sate crews equipment? If this camcorder was the only thing that picked up the daytime phenomena then I would think that either the cam itself is somehow creating all the phenomena or it has to do with the nature of analog recording. The former you almost completely ruled out, I think all that is left is to use more then one analog cam at the same time to see if they all pick up the sounds. If this has to do with how analog records information waves then I have a lot more questions. Your Sony cam makes it possible to see IR images because of it's lens, can it also make RF or inaudible sound audible? Is there even more information recorded on the tape then we have yet to perceive?

The audible frequency of sound is between 20 Hz and 20,000 Hz, this means that if we can hear this sound on the tape it must be within this range. As to the reason why it was not heard at the ranch is a good question. How good is your hearing? I have been intrigued by the radio signals from Jupiter and have learned that a lot of these share the same frequency as audible sound and some do not such as Jovian whistlers (produced by lightning). I have a very vague understanding of how these signals are created but I think they are some kind of electrical/plasma interference waves. Earth produces it's own song and perhaps you have a recording of an isolated example.

Originally posted by Nohup
I mean, really, aside from the source not being anonymous

, what makes these videos any better than your average YouTube clip of some random light in the sky?

Anyone can be skeptical about the source of information to the point of questioning our own existence. Do you exist or is your perception flawed? Read up on Rene Descartes if you find yourself doing this (I think, therefore I am). I believe the difference here is in the credibility of the witnesses and our ability to interact with them, which makes it totally different but that's just my opinion.


Add: Here is a link to the University of Iowa for information on Space Audio.


[edit on 10/7/2008 by Devino]

Originally posted by Nohup
[But a simple thing like having a synchronized stereo camera setup to do triangulation seems like a basic thing to consider if you're really going to do a serious video work like this.

Hi Nohup,

I totally agree with most of your message, here is a picture of "Science Camp 2008" which took place in Hessdalen (Norway) one month ago :



This picture was taken from one of the three basecamps these guys are using (with electro-optical systems) simultanously to capture "phenomenas". Here is a local map showing the three basecamps (in red) :



And guess what, even with good equipment and a decent (?) protocol, they haven't been able yet to prove that there is indeed a new phenomena to be studied. It sure takes a lot more than a simple protocol if you want the scientist community to take the matter seriously. It takes a bias-free predefined method with a rigorous team coordination just for a start...

Since none of these basic & minimum required conditions have been fulfilled yet, that might be one of the reasons why skeptics are right when they say "show me "proof" ".

If ufologists wanna prove something, they got to do their job right and do what it takes to be respected by the scientist community just like amateur astronomers did in the past...And that is pretty much doing science in situ (gathering studyable data) without disrespecting the scientific method.

Sorry for the 1/2 off topic.

Cheers,
Europa aka Buck


Thanks Johnny for all the details, it's more than enough.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by Europa733]