Senate Sets Bank-Rescue Vote, House May Act Friday

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
As several have this, this bill is TREASON, and I DARE CALL IT THAT.

And I join you in that declaration.

This is the leverage 'someone' has been looking for to circumvent the Constitution. I suspect that someone is being assisted by people who took a public oath to defend it.

There is no SANE reason to empower the Secretary of the Treasury to this end.

What is being done is criminal. Where are they elite legal minds who KNOW this to be true? WHY are they silent?

Higher education is part of the problem - I say that because there is no way anyone directly involved in this matter could have 'accidentally' stepped in this moral hazard unknowingly.

"Sorry, your Honor, I mugged that person by accident!"

reply to post by Maxmars

Higher education is part of the problem - I say that because there is no way anyone directly involved in this matter could have 'accidentally' stepped in this moral hazard unknowingly.

I've said it, and although I am retired, I was part of the higher educational system. By the way, I still keep in contact with many of the business professors that I taught with, and to a person, they are AGAINST this bill. Also, the external source that I posted listed several other professors that also felt this bill was a travesty.

I think maybe what you might have meant is that LAWYERS should step in and voice their legal opinions. I would agree, but remember, most members of Congress ARE LAWYERS, and so, certainly in the Senate, the majority seem to have no problem with this treasonous bill. Then again, it was lawyers that got OJ off the first time, even though most would agree that he was guilty.

Not certain how reliable this is but it's well worth a read

halturnershow.blogspot.com...

reply to post by zeeting

Mayb if I post who Hal Turner is, you might understand why he would spread such a rumor:

Harold "Hal" Turner is an American white nationalist and white supremacist from North Bergen, New Jersey. He ran his program, The Hal Turner Show, as a webcast from his home once a week and depended on donations by his listeners. He quit the show in July 2008 for good. In August his website also closed down though he retains a blog.

Turner has often made news for his extreme right-wing views. He promotes antisemitism (including rounding up and killing Jews)[1]) and opposes the existence of the state of Israel.[2] He also denies the Holocaust.[3] In 2005, Turner organized what he billed as a "rally against violence" after a white student was beaten by a black student at a high school. In 2006, he got in a fight with Jaime Vazquez, a former Jersey City deputy mayor, after Vazquez called him a racist coward. Turner has made numerous threats against political figures on his website and in other forums.

In my opinion, he is trying to cause a run on the banks, which may be a treasonous act.

Here is a more complete list, directly from the new 450 page revised bailout bill, of the PORK that has been added:

Sec. 301. Extension and modification of research credit.
Sec. 302. New markets tax credit.
Sec. 303. Subpart F exception for active financing income.
Sec. 304. Extension of look-thru rule for related controlled foreign corporations.
Sec. 305. Extension of 15-year straight-line cost recovery for qualified leasehold
improvements and qualified restaurant improvements; 15-year
straight-line cost recovery for certain improvements to retail
space.
Sec. 306. Modification of tax treatment of certain payments to controlling exempt
organizations.
Sec. 307. Basis adjustment to stock of S corporations making charitable contributions
of property.
Sec. 308. Increase in limit on cover over of rum excise tax to Puerto Rico and
the Virgin Islands.
Sec. 309. Extension of economic development credit for American Samoa.
Sec. 310. Extension of mine rescue team training credit.
Sec. 311. Extension of election to expense advanced mine safety equipment.
Sec. 312. Deduction allowable with respect to income attributable to domestic
production activities in Puerto Rico.
Sec. 313. Qualified zone academy bonds.
Sec. 314. Indian employment credit.
Sec. 315. Accelerated depreciation for business property on Indian reservations.
Sec. 316. Railroad track maintenance.
Sec. 317. Seven-year cost recovery period for motorsports racing track facility.
Sec. 318. Expensing of environmental remediation costs.
Sec. 319. Extension of work opportunity tax credit for Hurricane Katrina employees.
Sec. 320. Extension of increased rehabilitation credit for structures in the Gulf
Opportunity Zone.
Sec. 321. Enhanced deduction for qualified computer contributions.
Sec. 322. Tax incentives for investment in the District of Columbia.
Sec. 323. Enhanced charitable deductions for contributions of food inventory.
Sec. 324. Extension of enhanced charitable deduction for contributions of book
inventory.
Sec. 325. Extension and modification of duty suspension on wool products; wool
research fund; wool duty refunds.
TITLE IV—EXTENSION OF TAX ADMINISTRATION PROVISIONS
Sec. 401. Permanent authority for undercover operations.
Sec. 402. Permanent authority for disclosure of information relating to terrorist
activities.
263
O:\AYO\AYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
TITLE V—ADDITIONAL TAX RELIEF AND OTHER TAX
PROVISIONS
Subtitle A—General Provisions
Sec. 501. $8,500 income threshold used to calculate refundable portion of child
tax credit.
Sec. 502. Provisions related to film and television productions.
Sec. 503. Exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for
use by children.
Sec. 504. Income averaging for amounts received in connection with the Exxon
Valdez litigation.
Sec. 505. Certain farming business machinery and equipment treated as 5-year
property.
Sec. 506. Modification of penalty on understatement of taxpayer’s liability by
tax return preparer.
Subtitle B—Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and
Addiction Equity Act of 2008
Sec. 511. Short title.
Sec. 512. Mental health parity.
TITLE VI—OTHER PROVISIONS
Sec. 601. Secure rural schools and community self-determination program.
Sec. 602. Transfer to abandoned mine reclamation fund.
TITLE VII—DISASTER RELIEF
Subtitle A—Heartland and Hurricane Ike Disaster Relief
Sec. 701. Short title.
Sec. 702. Temporary tax relief for areas damaged by 2008 Midwestern severe
storms, tornados, and flooding.
Sec. 703. Reporting requirements relating to disaster relief contributions.
Sec. 704. Temporary tax-exempt bond financing and low-income housing tax relief
for areas damaged by Hurricane Ike.
Subtitle B—National Disaster Relief
Sec. 706. Losses attributable to federally declared disasters.
Sec. 707. Expensing of Qualified Disaster Expenses.
Sec. 708. Net operating losses attributable to federally declared disasters.
Sec. 709. Waiver of certain mortgage revenue bond requirements following federally
declared disasters.
Sec. 710. Special depreciation allowance for qualified disaster property.
Sec. 711. Increased expensing for qualified disaster assistance property.
Sec. 712. Coordination with Heartland disaster relief.
TITLE VIII—SPENDING REDUCTIONS AND APPROPRIATE
REVENUE RAISERS FOR NEW TAX RELIEF POLICY
Sec. 801. Nonqualified deferred compensation from certain tax indifferent par

Virtually NONE of these additions directly relate to the financial crises that the original bill was supposed to address. Just look at these items- Aid to American Samoa? WHAT?

They tacked the bailout to a bill full of earmarks that had been sitting around for over a year, trying to sweeten the deal for the House. You'll notice that many of the earmarks go to states/ districts that belong to Res who voted no.

I think that this is called bribery

reply to post by redhatty

I think that this is called bribery

True, it is.
It's too bad they just don't FIX all of the things that are wrong with the bill. Instead, they left the original bill untouched, and added some "sugar"(actually poison pills) to what already was a horrible bill.
That's the way our politicians work.
Disgraceful, isn't it?

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

Disgraceful, isn't it?

Yes, but what is truly amazing me is that the same people who were in a tizzy on Monday are not putting forth the same effort since (not all, but many).

We need to stay on these elected officials, faxing calling emailing, and make sure they know we haven't changed our opinion on this issue.

Silence is interpreted as acceptance

reply to post by redhatty

I have made several calls to my representative. Unfortunately, he voted for the measure Monday, and will vote for it again, despite my efforts to "educate" him. I also told him that I will personally go door to door, with a facts sheet, to convince voters in my town to vote for his opponent.
I don't think he cares. I guess the payoff he's getting will compensate for his losing re-election.

reply to post by mike dangerously

Yes, I called and spoke to Senator Hutchinson's staff person on Monday. Every time I do that she votes the way the PAC's want, which is not a unique attribute for a politician.

I would prefer to have her voted out of office, since she votes for big business at every opportunity. Treason is a wee bit strong for every Congressperson that took PAC contributions. None would be left.
The Senate bill added more pork, and made the deficit worse. There's a lot of support for an eventual bill, but Congress needs to call in the economists on this deal to get their facts straight.

A hasty rush to action is usually a sign that PAC's want something badly enough to encourage politicians to inject fear into the scenario. That way they get what big business wants. They also get rich and make a lot of money. It’s a transparent scheme to sell valuable assets for little to nothing.

Fear is a totally huge motivator. Any tax cut could be immediately rescinded by the incoming administration. Clinton basically did a retroactive tax hike under his administration, and this would be essentially the same sort of con job.

The system is dry right now because banks are receiving money they refuse to lend. Giving banks more money they refuse to lend is not going to translate into liquidity. Alas, liquidity will have to be legislated.
The tax cut provisions are being put into the Senate bill to sweeten the pot. In the long run, they may be the shortest lived tax cuts of modern history.

McCain really missed a golden opportunity to come out against a terrible bill. Obama is a street fighter, and will tell everyone pretty much what they want to hear. He did mention mandatory service in social work for all young people, which is the first thing he's said that might alienate anyone at all. Clinton was a good politician. He just told everyone what they wanted to hear then did whatever he felt like. Obama's no Clinton. McCain is going to be honest to his word, but promises so little that the people feel like he doesn't care. Street fighter he's not. McCain is out of touch with public opinion on this issue, and will probably continue to hand the election to Obama.

The best we can do is to vote against everyone that votes for either bill. Later we need to think about a viable 3rd political party, and get Ron Paul elected. He's honest and makes sense.

Originally posted by Flash_dancer
The system is dry right now because banks are receiving money they refuse to lend. Giving banks more money they refuse to lend is not going to translate into liquidity. Alas, liquidity will have to be legislated.

How do you know this? Because that's what the news is saying, or do you actually know anyone (with a decent credit rating, of course) who is not able to get credit right now?

I have been asking EVERYONE I know and NO ONE has had any problem securing new lines of credit, credit cards, loans to keep their business afloat, etc.

Now if you are a person with bad or marginal credit, you may have a problem. Well, it isn't supposed to be easy (or even possible) for you to get credit, ya know?

While I keep hearing it from the talking heads, I cannot find one single person who is actually having a problem regarding credit being issued.

PS, Bill is in House Rules Committee, let's hope they actually do their job and stop this bill.

reply to post by redhatty

Well, it was on the news yesterday that AT&T was having trouble getting credit. Many small business are having a difficult time getting loans. I don't think any of this translates into needing to fly a bill through Congress immediately. Markets go up and down, and this market looks speculative if the big money doesn't get what they want. There are certainly other options for easing credit that an ill drafter bill. Lack of liquidity is a problem, and is being internationally reported, so I really don't need to poll my neighbors on the issue. NY Times

What the Senate voted on last night was actually HR 1424, which was the Paul Welstone mental health parity bill. Senator Dodd made an amendment to it that was the Banker Rescue plan.
So, if they pass what the Senate voted on, in the House, it will be unconstitutional. Any bill that appropriates money has to originate in the House. So, if they pass the Senate version, they will have to pass a separate appropriation bill to fund the rescue plan.

reply to post by Flash_dancer

The Senate bill added more pork, and made the deficit worse. There's a lot of support for an eventual bill, but Congress needs to call in the economists on this deal to get their facts straight.

You are so right. Since I'm retired. and fortunately do not have a mortgage, and since my wife and I live a very simple lie(we grow all our own vegetables, including several hundred tomato plants, to make sauce and vegetable soup), we will be impacted less than most.
My REAL concern is that all of my children and grandchildren will be paying for this treasonous act the rest of their lives.
All parents want their children to have a better life than they did, but I'm really concerned that because of this bill, offshore outsourcing, H1B visas, etc. that won't be the case.
Earlier in the campaign, I did lean towards McCain, but for someone that says he wants to get rid of earmarks, his support of this bill, with every earmark that had gathered dust in the last year included, he's proven that he doesn't really mean it.
I've gone back to writing in Ron Pauls' name.

reply to post by Flash_dancer

I agree with absolutely everything that you said. We need to start NOW to get a third party on the ballot for 2012. I certainly would support Ron Paul. He has been right on, predicting this mess for a year now. In fact, I am going to write him, and ask him if he would entertain a third party, and consider running in 2012.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Any bill that appropriates money has to originate in the House. So, if they pass the Senate version, they will have to pass a separate appropriation bill to fund the rescue plan.

That is correct. I'm sure that they will have a crooked way around this, though, the GOLDEN RULE: Those that hold the gold, make the rules.

Hi There,

Here in the UK, banks are starting to restrict their credit lending for fear of getting burned again, sometime in the future. This little act of financial prudence is part of the process towards fixing the credit cisis. Yes, the banks may lose custom and see a lowering in their profit-potential, but what they don't gain in custom or profit, they gain in good lending principles.

The $700 billion 'bailout' is not going to make a dent in the credit crunch, and the reason for this is that when it starts to be shared out, each payment to whomever becomes a 'beneficiary' requires a 'underwriter' who provides CDS insurance. Now the problem is - which is yet to rear its ugly head - do those underwriters (whom work in a unregulated market) have the capital, or will they collapse when the claims are made because the captial isn't there?

Other interconnected financial crises look to be just around the corner, and it looks like the government is going to have to use more than one finger to stem the hemorrhaging in the money dam. All I'm expecting to occur is the temporary shoring up of one financial institution after another, each one probably requiring a 'bailout'. After all, if this bill is passed, the precedent has been set, and other bailouts must equally be given passage.

I think Bush is seeking to provide a temporary look of stability to the markets so that he can f**k off and leave the mess at the feet of the next president, who can then be blamed for the continuing crisis...which is not over by a long shot.

Banks are going to have to get real scrooge-like, otherwise, there will be no grounding for a fix to the crisis, someone's going to have to lose, and I feel the longer it goes on, the more the likelyhood that the loser will be Joe Ordinary and his savings, his job, his home...it will be pushed and filtered down to him. I also think it may be a good idea to check on the value of one's pension...just to see if it still exists, and if possible...get some evidence? I don't think we have seen the worst yet.

Originally posted by Flash_dancer
Well, it was on the news yesterday that AT&T was having trouble getting credit. Many small business are having a difficult time getting loans.

This is what I consider "Talking Heads" What I asked is do you personally know anyone being affected by this supposed credit crisis?

The news is also saying that people are now supporting the bill and we know that's a lie.

Don't believe everything the media says.

EDIT to add:

CRAP!!!! The Rules committee is letting this go to the floor, apparently there is another bill that had to be approved to go to the floor along with it (the appropriations bill probably) Will check the register to see if I can find it

[edit on 10/2/08 by redhatty]

I just can't resist!
Let's evoke some thought....
(All bolding my own emphasis)

Sec. 301. Extension and modification of research credit.

The research grant programs universities 'indulge' in are the most lucrative source of income for some schools, more so than tuition. But interestingly, credit is never asked for. Is this new?

Sec. 302. New markets tax credit.

Ah, "Investment-Class" friendly gesture #1

Sec. 303. Subpart F exception for active financing income.

"Investment-Class" friendly gesture #2

Sec. 304. Extension of look-thru rule for related controlled foreign corporations.

(Foreign) "Investment-Class" friendly gesture #1

Sec. 305. Extension of 15-year straight-line cost recovery for qualified leasehold improvements and qualified restaurant improvements; 15-year straight-line cost recovery for certain improvements to retail space.

I guess it sure will pay off to be a certain business that qualifies for this baby... hmmm, any ideas?

Sec. 306. Modification of tax treatment of certain payments to controlling exempt organizations.

Nice verbiage..., too bad it means nothing. What list of beneficiaries does this represent?

Sec. 307. Basis adjustment to stock of S corporations making charitable contributions of property.

S-corps can now donate their trashed devalued goods and claim charitable donation for full value...? say it ain't so.

Sec. 308. Increase in limit on cover over of rum excise tax to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

What is the cover over? that it's limit needs increasing? Does that mean make it higher, lower, what? And since Puerto Rican rum is like, two companies, what on earths rates it as an 'issue'?

Sec. 309. Extension of economic development credit for American Samoa.

What is this "credit" we keep hearing off? Is it like when yo do something you get 'credit' for it? Is it like a currency; "I have 5 credits, how about you?" Hmmm. credit is a tricky word.... what are they trying NOT to say?

Sec. 310. Extension of mine rescue team training credit.

Again with the 'credit'! Is this a way to offer free mining rescue team training..., that sounds nice.... or am I being naive?

Sec. 311. Extension of election to expense advanced mine safety equipment.

Hmmm.... mining has become important suddenly, no? Especially the 'advanced' mine safety equipment. Are they digging a hole to China?

Sec. 312. Deduction allowable with respect to income attributable to domestic production activities in Puerto Rico.

There's a great need for sages to rationalize 'attributable' in regards to the ever-so-specific domestic production activities. But at least it's a deduction, now there's a word we are all familiar with, yes?

Sec. 313. Qualified zone academy bonds.

There's almost nothing I don't like about this sentence. To qualify or not to qualify, the woes of the 'zone academy'. Or did I parse that incorrectly?

Sec. 314. Indian employment credit.

So benefits for outsourcing.. specifically to India.... oh yeah, that's a serious improvement to our economic situation.... nice fix, please don't drink and legislate at the same time huh?

Sec. 315. Accelerated depreciation for business property on Indian reservations.

They still refer to them as "Indian" reservations? Uh, , dudes, sober up, OK?

Sec. 316. Railroad track maintenance.

Infrastructure..., now we're getting somewhere; but wait, this is to make more profitable to fix them? Or simply let them rot where they lay?

Sec. 317. Seven-year cost recovery period for motorsports racing track facility.

What's this, like, a special break for 10 or 20 companies? Where are they, I wonder?

Sec. 318. Expensing of environmental remediation costs.

Tax breaks for people forced to clean up the poisonous toxins they disgorge into our living space. Yeah, that's good, maker it cheaper for them to kill us. Thanks guys.

Sec. 319. Extension of work opportunity tax credit for Hurricane Katrina employees.

An American cause! I knew there had to be at least one or two of these in here. Many would say "A day late and a dollar short!" but I wouldn't begrudge them any help they can get.

Sec. 320. Extension of increased rehabilitation credit for structures in the Gulf Opportunity Zone.

OK, I went to a map, but I couldn't find the zone listed anywhere. It's a good thing there's opportunities there. And apparently there are also structures that need rebuilding; now that will be cheaper... goodie?!?

Sec. 321. Enhanced deduction for qualified computer contributions.

Ooooh, enhanced deductions. Too bad only qualified computers need apply...

Sec. 322. Tax incentives for investment in the District of Columbia.

Yeah, I was thinking, DC needs more development. Especially since it doesn't rate statehood... Never figured that out.

Sec. 323. Enhanced charitable deductions for contributions of food inventory.

People should never have to go hungry.

Sec. 324. Extension of enhanced charitable deduction for contributions of book inventory.

Magazine racks will be emptied into libraries... awesome, I guess.

Sec. 325. Extension and modification of duty suspension on wool products; wool research fund; wool duty refunds.

The South shall rise again! Or do they not 'do' wool anymore?

... OK, OK..., I'll stop.

Sorry...., I'm still giddy from the outrageous contrivance the Senators (if it really was them) have concocted.... I anticipate most of the voting population will become lost in this labyrinthian collection of trivia.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Maxmars]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by Maxmars]

Guess what. Those of you from the U.K. and Europe will be affected by what ever happens here in the U.S. Yes a lot of stupidity has gone down in this country, but has been created around the world thanks to people who have been greedy and dishonest. My head is not in the sand, I am guilty of standing by and watching this disaster take place because we are convinced are voice no longer carries any message. Socialism could be the way in all western countries.


Peace to all...............................................Except you Neo Cheaters.