Senate Sets Bank-Rescue Vote, House May Act Friday

reply to post by redhatty


thanks for that video. IT hits the nail right on the head.
Lie to the us citizens and bail out FOREIGNERS time to really vote out every body that vote yes for this!

reply to post by AmethystWolf


Usually both the house and senate write their own bills if they pass in both houses then they go to a committee to work out any differences then the bill goes to the president.

If the house which is considered the lower house of congress writes a bill and they vote on it and it fails it doesn't out right die the senate can pick it up change it and send it back to the floor of the house to vote as is. the house since they voted no once cannot make changes on the senate bill.

What your seeing right now is the backdoor of politics to get a bill passed.

reply to post by Mercenary2007


Thanks for the explanation, Mercenary2007. I really can't believe we are going to be forced to bail out some irresponsible rich people, while we continue to watch all of the wealth in this country be funneled toward them. I've wondered if this is Bush's last 'hurrah' before he leaves, taking care of his cronies til the end.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by AmethystWolf]

I emailed all of my representatives through votenobailout.org and they replied saying that they wouldn't vote for any bailout. Of course as politicians always do they lied and voted for it, every single one of them!

So I emailed them back with their replies attached and told them I hope the designated bunker that they were told to hide out in during the closed door meetings with their families was well stocked and very deep. Of course I will not be voting for them come re-election time. I get the feeling that my average fellow country men and women will forget in less then a week and I will, like the rest of you, be looked at like one of those crazy C.T.ers if I ever bring the subject up after countless trillions are dumped into this hustle.

More then likely all of us will be purged from the voting rolls for voicing our opposition to this entire scam on the American tax payer for saying no to these bailout schemes when we emailed or representatives in federal office. Maybe even labeled as some "homegrown" terrorist and placed on one of the many lists that they are making in their very defense.

After it passes, which undeniably it will, then where do we go from there? It is entirely obvious that our "representatives" do not listen, nor represent us any longer. Secondly, it should be obvious as well that the entire voting procedure is rigged in their favor. Do we just wait them out, in their cushioned government jobs, and when they croak off, hope we get an honest representative to stand up for us?

Im not at all happy, but not surprised. Expect the House to approve it Oct 7. Wasn't that the original date anyway? I think its all an act, they were going to it all along.

when fraud is proven to be involved in a mortage, it goes back to the originator ofr the loan. I think the same thing goes for these derivatives. and well, it been proven that both were pretty much filled with fraudulent behavior. so the paper assetts are finding their way back to their originators..or at least that's how it's susposed to work.....the originators don't have the money to refund to person who bought them. matter if fact, I think that sloppy record keeping has made them untraceable back....
if the fraud was committed here in the states, then ya, someone from here in the states should be paying this cost....
my question is, was the US the only one where this game was being played out? or was this bundling of debt and lying about it's value and integrity going on in other countries also?

the senate bill is worse than what the house came up with I think.
now it's....we're taking $700 billion from yas, extending a bunch of tax credits, doing something with the amt and blah, blah, blah....
more money basically!!!
I agree with the amt bit..it's an unfair way to treat people.
but still....that's a heck of alot of money, and well, alot of money has already been spent on this problem, and then they spent a few billion last week on defense and such....
and the candidates are out promising the american people tax cuts, new and expanded programs, blah, blah.....
tell ya what people of congress!! knock out $700 billion out of your spending, and maybe the people will change their mind about it???
but.....QUIT MAKING A BAD SITUATION WORSE!!!

I cant believe our wonderful government is still pushing for a bail out package again. The government and all its wisdom along with its special interest groups have caused this situation and they expect the working men and women of this country to bail their sorry a==es out. They claim this bail out is for the good of our nations economy and those who work hard to make a living. O.K. I live in Florida where a large amount of companies have laid off so many workers and jobs are scarce. The company I work for, is now up for sale and has laid off around 100 people. Those who get to keep their jobs have taken pay cuts or have been asked to multitask and work twice as hard for the same amount of money with out any increase in pay. The people I work with along with myself can no longer afford house or car payments. Gas and food prices are ridiculous and everything keeps going up in regards to expenditures. Those in favor of this bail out package claim it will help the working class be able to obtain credit, well that's great but what about more jobs or money for the working class so we can purchase a car or house. They want to fix this mess by giving money to those who have enough money. How about letting the ordinary American have a say where our hard earned tax money gets gets sent to. The rich are taking from the poor to pay off the rich. I say put all those responsible for this mess in prison and take all their assets to pay of some of this debt, and force all those in Washington that assisted in helping to create this debacle to face legal action. There are other ways to solve this problem without throwing money at it. This will only reward those who do wrong, and creates more greed and bad behavior. If this bail out is passed it will most definitely be followed by several more bail outs, because the main problem will not be solved thus the need for as much as a trillion dollars or more will have to be spent just to maintain the status quot. I sure hope the people of this country wake up be for it is to late.



Peace to all...........Working class people its time to take a stand.........
To the Neo Cheaters I'm sharpening my pitch fork........ No to NWO

www.guardian.co.uk...


So your 'democratic' capitalism is on trial to quote the above link but you would rather see your economic system completely collapse with all the ensuing chaos than save it because you fear socialism?Considering most people I the US have no idea what socialism really is I find this all rather amusing an I'm afraid schaudenfraude is rearing it's ugly head all over Europe right now .Face it US citizens ,you've been well and truly hoisted on your own petard because of your robotic belief in capitalism and now it's showing it's true face your still burying your heads in the sand.Well ,good luck in your harsh lesson of political re-education,it's just a shame your going to be buried by your own political dogma.

reply to post by candyfloss


Your evident antipathy to capitalism is showing. And I believe the same phobia you imply Americans have about socialism, is in fact, your own phobia about capitalism.

Capitalism was NEVER the problem in this country. It's instead, about those who are empowered to interfere with the free market to benefit themselves, thus rendering the capitalism a tool against those who rely on the market to be free.

Just because you're comfortable with the Central Bank structure in whatever country your in doesn't mean we have to be.

The Central Bank is the CAUSE of all this. They are manipulating the market and the flow of wealth, diverting it towards there own personal coffers. To what end I wonder? We certainly are witnessing trillions being amassed by someone... but to put a stop to it is to interfere with socialism?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


The bailout amount was raised when it went before the senate to $850 billion to include a tax break (LOL) for middle class taxpayers. They also raised the amount of insurance provided by the FDIC to $250,000 and also put an add-on that mental health issues should be covered by health insurance equal to the amount that they cover for regular health payments. Dig the hole a little bit deeper! The senators have committed treason and should be charged for this and I really thought that they were supposed to listen to what the folks that voted them in to office had to say - but I guess they forgot that, huh?

[edit on 2-10-2008 by erin5764]

Originally posted by Maxmars
Not one of these Senators should be reelected.

Each has knowingly undertaken the circumvention of the Constitution, with full intention of executing an 'end-run' around the law of the land.

They have accepted, by taking the oath of office, the responsibility to defend the sentinel document at the heart of our republic, and tossed it aside because the 'big money' was going to 'go away' and leave them behind if they didn't.

They prostituted themselves to the transnational banking elite.

As far as I'm concerned, they are guilty of treason, failure to perform their duty, and I would not be severely surprised to find they were all bribed or blackmailed - or both.

I never thought about this before, but that's the perfect leverage to use to get the numbers they need to get the bail out passed. Threaten dirty members of Congress (just about all) with prosecution if the bail out fails, and the fear of imprisonment outweighs any pressure from constituents.

What can be accomplished?

It has been said that the American people are quietly succumbing to the winds of propaganda regarding this tragic departure from a Constitutional Republic towards a Corporate Fascist state.

It has been pointed out that the tools used to accomplished this complacent acquiescence to the change is the result of exposure to lies, and half-truths, as well as a consistent misinterpretation of the facts and consequences around us.

Our preoccupation with the celebrity politician game show in which we become quadrennially involved, seems to have effectively drawn our minds from the exposition of truth, to the 'sale' of political 'change' which instead of veering our national direction in a different direction, has committed us to plunge deeper into a governmental model that usurps the people's will at the behest of the transnational banking regime. The demand for 'oversight' was satisfied, we are informed, by Congressional 'hindsight' by parties undisclosed, with powers over nothing, and membership controlled by those enjoying the new freedom to do as they will.

Clearly we can see the tools in use. For they have revealed themselves in blatant fashion. The media was brought to bear, and is now pumping America full of soundbites and emotional contrivances. Taking the sale to the next level.

The 'bail-out' has become a 'rescue'.
The defeat of the bill, became a failure to achieve consensus.
The rejection of the action, has become a reflection of our 'inability to come together'.
The trials of the future for those manipulating the free market, have become a 'catastrophe' we must avert.
Political leaders, having neither the knowledge, nor the inclination to seek it out, have become the 'front-men' for the sales effort.

Those who stand to suffer the consequences of outrageous financial excesses, through 'make-believe' accounting and 'derivative' crystal ball investment, are too vital to the politicians very existence to come to pass.

The new 'first citizen' of the US is now the Bank. They created a problem, and the solution is to let them have total control, through cronies in the Congressionally accountable Treasury Department, by making them 'unaccountable.' An illusion of of status quo has been reinforced by those who yield to the winds of 'financial' arses.

In time, should the Congress fail to protect the Constitution, as the Senate just did, this will forever be the moment in history when one can look back and rightly proclaim, "This was the day the music died." American's Constitutional form was nullified by the will of the financial masters of those who 'bought in' to their game of chance.

There is a time and a place for all things, it is often quoted. Our Congressional leaders, through contrivance, or genuine respect for their constituencies rejected the effort. Now the 'senior' and more politically 'revered' Senators have "found a way" to sell it to the masses and the game is afoot. The next hours will mark the point of capitulation for any congressional representative who wishes the blessings of good-will from the party, which makes and breaks their careers at their convenience.

As Americans, we must utterly reject or sinfully accept that this is as it should be. Our own country, by political and financial machinations, is being taken from us; for as the Constitution goes, so does the Nation. Oaths to defend the Constitution have become as laughably insignificant as the Hippocratic oath of physicians.

America has been purposefully blinded, and is being manipulated into a tool for interests that are neither ours, nor of our own making. Repeatedly, we have seen actions taken in our name, yet we have not initiated them. We see rules being broken, for our benefit, yet we don't prosper from them. We see leaders speaking for us, yet they don't listen to us.

We are being financially burdened with a yoke that was engineered outside this country, separate from the will of the people, and for the benefit of the continuation of a failed Central Banking system. Of course, the failure is relative to the benefit or service it provides. There are those who do benefit; but they are for the major part, not American. There are those who suffer the burden of the yoke, they are 'for the most part, Americans.

Please, contact your representatives, and tell them this is a pig with lipstick. They will probably understand that phrase, since they found it so amusing during the production of their game show.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by Maxmars]

reply to post by erin5764


What is going around in the corrupted government we have is Treason, you are right about that.

Interesting is that they have been testing the population for the last two weeks.

While they are planning this bill that is nothing more than full of corruption and perpetuation of that corruption, they are making it in steps, to see the reaction of the public.

The public complains has been minimum, just along the lines dictated by the laws put in place by the same corrupted government that we have.

As long as the population will not raise in anger, violence and anarchy they will be comfortable enough to keep pushing and perpetuation their corruption.

That is what is going on right now and that is why the bill has taken this long to pass.

This government is still afraid of what the population can do to their rule of corruption.

$700,000,000,000 bail out / 138,000,000 taxpayers = $5072 per taxpayer

This bill will cost $5072 per taxpayer. Apparently, the voice & will of the people is being ignored. They don't care how many phone calls, emails, faxes, we write against it. They don't care if we threaten to vote for someone else. They have wall street criminals in their back pocket and THAT'S who they work for and care about... not us.

We all know the federeal income tax is illegal... so we need to hit them where it hurts. If this passes, we need to each withhold $5072 from out federal income taxes this year... they are stealing it from us! So we pay OURSELVES the $700B back!

If our "representatives" don't want to work for us, we'll just have to take matters into our own hands.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by mecheng]

Once again everyone, (save a couple of socialest foreingers that seem to think what they think matters)are in agreement,this does my heart good to see people unite,I didnt think it was possable today.

I hope we have learned a lesson and stay united because this is only the begening of the rape of the people,if they(our representatives) belive that they can print money out of thin air and have the tax payer pay it back(with interest) in real earned money then this wont stop.A whole new scam is in effect.

As you have all said,we as citizens of the United States dont matter anymore,we are now looked apon as SUBJECTS or sheep how ever you want to put it.So my question to the brainiacks is what do we do when it starts all over and THEY say, now that we have put 850 billion up to save you people from economic brakedown we need to put another Trillion in to back it up or it won't work or something to that effect.??????

I heard back from my Senator today. He voted no and explained why

Thank you for contacting me in opposition to the $700 billion bailout package. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this important issue and want you to know that I agree with you.

As you may know, the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act would provide authority to the Treasury Secretary to use $700 billion of American taxpayer money to purchase troubled assets. After studying the proposal and talking with many financial experts and constituents, I decided that I can't support it for three main reasons.

First, it is an unprecedented government bailout that will almost certainly pave the way for even more government bailouts at the expense of the American taxpayer - maybe sooner rather than later. Second, it requires people at Treasury to make tens of thousands of judgment calls about what they buy and for how much. The people making these decisions will be people from Wall Street who want to go back, causing great concern for biases and even corruption. Third, there has been no adequate discussion of the major reforms needed. I am afraid this big government first step helps ensure that Congress will not make those strong reforms - like breaking up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and requiring cash down for home purchases. I believe we should work to address the root cause of these problems so we can avoid future widespread economic troubles instead of simply expecting American taxpayers to pay the bill.

You may also be pleased to know that I strongly opposed and voted against the earlier bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These two government-sponsored mortgage giants' own mismanagement and poor decision making caused their downfall and were a major factor in causing our current crisis. The plan to bailout these mortgage giants could cost American taxpayers up to $300 billion, making the U.S. taxpayers liable for up to $1 trillion when combined with the Treasury Department's $700 billion proposal.

The American housing market and economy has greatly suffered as a result of irresponsible mortgage lending and borrowing. There have been significant loan defaults and foreclosures, and many financial institutions have lost billions of dollars. However, I believe that taxpayers should not bail irresponsible banks, mortgage lenders, and borrowers out of their bad decisions.

Again, thank you for contacting me about this important issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me again in the future about any other issue important to you and your family.

Sincerely,
Senator David Vitter
United States Senator

Has anyone else heard back from their Reps?

[edit on 10/2/08 by redhatty]

reply to post by redhatty



NO!

Mine just ignored me and everyone else I know and voted "yes."

Thanks, Schumer, thanks Clinton.

I think you are two traitors to the people of this country; but hey - you ignored me anyway so why should you care now?

Seems some folks think that they are getting a 700 billion blank check, but that's not how it's formed. It's going to be around 250 billion up front, and the next two steps if they require more, would require additional permissions to get. Of course, they probably would get it if asked, but it's not just 700 billion up front. At least from my understanding on how this was written. Not that I support it.

As many economists have said, these Senators and Congressmen/women have no idea what they are doing:

Economists Raise Concerns About Bailout Plan
Thursday, October 02, 2008

By John R. Lott, Jr.
While some politicians were reconsidering their opposition to the bailout this week, there is one group that still expresses a lot of concerns with the legislation: economists.

Interviews conducted with a dozen prominent academic economists, Obama supporters as well as McCain supporters, found little support for the bailout bill. Indeed, even the one economist who supported the proposal passed by the Senate Wednesday night had serious reservations.

Jonathan Berk, an award-winning finance professor at Stanford University and a strong opponent of the bailout plan, expressed the concerns of many: “I have never been so frustrated, I have never wanted to speak out publicly before on these political issues, but politicians don’t know what they are doing, they know nothing about these issues.”

The economists did not all emphasize the same reasons for the current financial crunch and they all did not agree how serious the problem is. But there are a number of similarities that can be seen in all their answers.

There is little agreement on how serious the current problems are. Take the statements from three of the economists. John Cochrane, a professor at the University of Chicago Business School, worried that the solution was out of all proportion to the problem.

The legislation is like this: some boats are sinking, so rather than bailing those boats out, you blow up the dam and drain the whole lake.

Robert Hansen, senior associate dean and professor at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College, summed up his view this way:

Does this justify some government intervention to jumpstart the market? Yes. Is this the best way to solve the problem? I don’t know. Does this justify this level of intervention? No.

This Senate revised bill is MUCH WORSE than the original bill, which was bad enough.
The pork that is in the revised bill is a travesty:

A second rejection of the bill was "unthinkable," according to congressional leaders.

The House will be voting on a bill packed with $100 billion worth of extra incentives than Monday's proposal had.

Some of those additions have been assailed by spending watchdogs as "pork," like the $6 million for the makers of kids' wooden arrows, according to a summary of the bill released by the Senate Finance Committee.

Other goodies intended to attract the votes of individual members of Congress include $192 million for the rum producers of Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands, $128 million for car racing tracks, $33 million for corporations operating in American Samoa, and $10 million for small film and television productions.

Another deceiving addition is the supposed increase of the FDIC insured limit for individual bank accounts from $100,000 to $250,000. The reason that it is deceiving is:

Another key modification is a one-year increase in the limits of personal bank savings the government insures up to $250,000.

Notice that when the MSM talks about this "addition", they do NOT point out that the measure expires AFTER ONE YEAR.
So, someone puts $250,000 in an individual bank account, and a year and a day after the bill passes, the bank goes bankrupt. That person potentially just LOST $150,000.00 Nice, huh?

Furthermore, for the politicians to be saying that the taxpayers will likely get their $700,000,000,000.00 back, is such an OUTRIGHT LIE, that I can't believe anyone would buy that. To prove it, just ask them if THEY" would invest THEIR OWN PERSONAL MONEY in a stack of worthless toxic financial paper? I think NOT.

As several have this, this bill is TREASON, and I DARE CALL IT THAT.

Originally posted by fleabit
Seems some folks think that they are getting a 700 billion blank check, but that's not how it's formed. It's going to be around 250 billion up front, and the next two steps if they require more, would require additional permissions to get. Of course, they probably would get it if asked, but it's not just 700 billion up front. At least from my understanding on how this was written. Not that I support it.

You are correct, they finally 'specified' that the first portion of the disbursement would be in the form of a quarter of a trillion dollars, with others to follow; but the LEGISLATION NEVERTHELESS ALLOWS UP TO 700 BILLION AT A TIME - at the treasurer's discretion - and with no power on earth able to interfere with that discretion.... kinda chilling - it's like a license to kill an economy -our economy.