40pc believe others don't belong in Australia - racism

40% believe others don't belong in Australia - racism

www.news.com.au

FORTY per cent of Australians believe some ethnic groups do not belong in the country with one in 10 having outwardly racist views, a new study shows.

New South Wales tops the list with racist views, but lead researcher on the project Kevin Dunn puts it down to Sydney being the focus of international migration to Australia.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 28-9-2008 by tezzajw]

It doesn't surprise me at all that the figures are around 40%.

Lots of sticky territory to get into when dealing with race/religious differences.

However, when I walk down the treets of some Melbourne suburbs, I'd think that I was in another country.

Yet, somewhere like Geelong, there's a totally different atmosphere.

Is it racist to state that some cultures just don't mix and that's a fact?

www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

And this is from a WHOLE NATION of immigrants.
Can anybody spell hypocrisy?

That being said, I do think newcomers should conform to the ways of the country they migrate to. Try moving to some countries and wearing a bikini on a beach and see how tolerant THEY are.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by yellowbeard]

Originally posted by tezzajw
Is it racist to state that some cultures just don't mix and that's a fact?

There are plenty of countries/culture in the world that would NOT take kindly to YOU moving there and carrying on with your Western-Aussie ways and in the process changing THEIR culture. They like their culture, they have the right to maintain their values and belief systems and customs and language. Many wars have been fought over this very issue, grant it those wars were often lost by the indigenous people and they were taken over as a result, but at least they FOUGHT to try and preserve their socieites.

But you, being white and western, you don't have that same right. If you want to maintain your culture, if you resist more immigration because those moving in do not want to assimilate, instead they want to move there and then CHANGE your world to be much like the country they fled from, well that makes you a bad racist white person.

I personally have no problem with migrants coming to Australia but I do have a problem when they refuse to learn our language and segregate themselves into their own communities. I go one suburb to my north and I'd swear I was in China and yet move one suburb to the south and I am surrounded by Indians.

I have a few friends who have migrated from various other countries to here and I have talked to them about my feelings and they agree. They took the time to learn English, learn about our culture and try to fit in, not create entire suburbs full of people who do not want to mix and refuse to learn English.

[edit on 28/9/2008 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Sonya610
But you, being white and western, you don't have that same right. If you want to maintain your culture, if you resist more immigration because those moving in do not want to assimilate, instead they want to move there and then CHANGE your world to be much like the country they fled from, well that makes you a bad racist white person.

It sure seems that way.

It's not so much me I give a damn about, I can retreat to better places. I wonder what world my kids will live in, where they are forced into other culturual practices that make me sick...

I have a number of cyber Aussie friends. I hear the same on a regular basis.

The incidents, such as young women attacked at the beach by muslims among other things has not helped the matter.

I must imagine London has her share of this type of backlash as well.

What are the answers? I don't know.

Originally posted by yellowbeard
And this is from a WHOLE NATION of immigrants.
Can anybody spell hypocrisy?

So if they were NOT immigrants then you would not have a problem with it? Because they were there first? So it is fine for Europeans to restrict immigration then, right? That is good news for Europe! They won't be called hypocrits, just racists. I bet they will be so relieved.

I'm kind of torn on this one. You can say that if you move to a country then you must abide by that countries laws and culture, and that is fair enough. But my overwhelming feeling is that no person has the right to dictate how another person lives their life.

Everyone is free, but if we adhere to the dogma of law-by-landmass, then it slowly becomes impossible for any person to find anywhere that they can live their own life (with the caveat for such a liberty that they, in turn, allow everyone else to live theirs).

reply to post by Sonya610


that was supposed to be a humourous comment, maybe I should have put a smiley after it, my feelings are the comment below.

Racism Vs. Gravity... = Racism=0 - Gravity=1 ...One Planet,One People...The sooner people realize the better ;-)...Gravity is a Racists worst enemy :-P...

If a proper vote were to be asked,you then have to ask 'why' do you believe others dont belong.

Id say 35% would say


' because they dont make an effort to come into Australian society. '

Leave the face covering behind, in Australia we smile at each other, not hide away.

Stop forming gangs like the lebanese, asian and chinese/

dont expect me to understand your language, in Australia we speak english.


have that printed on your visa card, and that 40% would significantly reduce

I believe that is precisely it Agit8. You come into a community and expect everything to change around you.

I grow tired of this politcal correctness junk.

As have many others.

And I know Aussies that can wash walls with a biker gang in a pub. You don't want to mess with the Aussies.

[edit on 9/28/2008 by jpm1602]

Originally posted by Agit8dChophave that printed on your visa card, and that 40% would significantly reduce

A better way to stamp out the problem would be to have it take a LONG time before granting citizenship (say 30 years) and make it clear that since they are non-citizens, if their children become criminals the entire family will be deported.

Now THAT would fix the problem. There are many countries that do not grant citizenship to foreigners for a very long time, if ever. The guests in their country realize their status and realize they MUST conform to the laws.

Hi Mates

Part of my 2 bob on these issues, not directly aimed at those here most so a vent towards those that make up these unkind of statistics the article stated.

Australia is the ‘lucky country’, we have a damn good setup here - Socio-economically speaking its all taken care of for us.

You can be whomever you want to be – Schools, Unis, tafes, Colleges, Traineeships and Apprenticeships and the high cash resources sector something for all minds.
Start a business - there are local small business development corporations nation wide that offer free seminars, support etc
Our healthcare system is exceptional on comparison to other countries, early childhood dental plans, medicare, PBS.
You have no reason to be homeless unless you are under 15 (and you don’t want to be a ward of the state, in foster care) or you choose to be homeless due to your own vices – the Social Security system is too good,
We have space to breath, our Sunday newspaper is completely social, not like the US fear mongering media,
Sporting facilities in communities and towns
Sense of community in the rural areas etc etc

– actually please feel free to add more things….

The point being the majority of the populous really doesn’t have a lot to complain about.

Things might be a little ‘tough’ here and there, but it’s just not comparable with countries like Sth Africa/ Zim, Afghanistan, Iraq, US, UK etc for government ruled oppression and social breakdown.

We have that many government sponsored community service campaigns, ads and announcements. WE are wrapped in cottonwool ffs.

Speeding Warnings
Drink Drug driving
Drugs/Alcohol use/abuse
Crimewatch / Neighbourhoodwatch /Eyes on the street
Keep Oz Beautiful Litterbug
QuitSmoking/Anti Smoking
Wear your seatbelt Truancy Watch
Cover your mouth when you cough with flu in public'!ffs common sense!?
Papsmears/Prostate/Breast check
Driver Reviver coffee break
Report TV ads we are offended by
Domestic Abuse - etc etc.

The caliber of some of these ads says a lot about our society’s err issues or lack of. Which brings me to the punch…

To those whom live in Australia.....
What do we REALLY have to be whining about?

Society is just a game we play until survival becomes struggle.

All we have to do is start thinking for ourselves and be who we want to be as honourable individuals. Instead 40% at least (according to article) are missing the actual 'vibe' of what it is to live here.

It’s a unique place where worldwide cultures can live next door to each other and no one has the right to be prejudice/racist or any ‘ist’ about another as we cannot say its OURS. It’s not like the convicts dumped here 200 yrs ago set about to create a history worthy culture with ‘ancient traditions’ worthy of carrying on…No they didn’t, your chosen Way is as flexible as your imagination.
(For the PC record - Indigenous Australians believe this too – traditionally the oldest nomadic tribes in the world, to live symbiotically their moves were determined by the cycles of the earth. We're all guests of the Lands seasons.)
Its sanctuary to all, who move here and all people have the right to live a good life.
I’m positive there IS more Goodies than badies here.

‘Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you help them to become what they are capable of being’. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

*jumps off soapbox*

They all need to get over issues regarding what is not in their control and start influencing what is. AND lighten up!

Ahh I needed that vent, sometimes things get to me enough to get verbal.

themuse

[edit on 28/9/2008 by themuse]

Originally posted by Kryties
I personally have no problem with migrants coming to Australia but I do have a problem when they refuse to learn our language and segregate themselves into their own communities. I go one suburb to my north and I'd swear I was in China and yet move one suburb to the south and I am surrounded by Indians.

I think this one of the biggest issues with immigration and it's certainly one point that seems to get raised time and time again. I see it myself on a daily basis. I live in an area that's very heavily populated by Asians* and, a few years ago, there were serious race riots only a couple of miles from my door. The actual area has always been a 'dumping ground' for immigrants, long before I came to live here myself. Back in the 1840s and 1850s there was a massive influx of Irish looking for work and to escape the 'Famine'. Then, in the 1970s, there was a large influx of Hindu Asians. Some of these people were amongst the first friends I made when I came to this area.

Over the last 20 years, that particular demographic was gradually displaced by a Muslim one. The big difference between this particular influx and the others is, for whatever reason, that there is genuinely little integration. Having worked for the local council, I know there's a serious problem with the lack of English spoken in this community, not just amongst an older group, who, understandably might have less reason to mix or have difficulties learning new language skills, but amongst the young too; shockingly this includes young British-Asians actually born in this country.

Despite government claims to the contrary, there is actually areas where whites are seriously unwelcome. There's a couple of streets near me, that, as a 40-year-old bloke, just won't walk down, particularly at night.

What's also interesting is that during the last 10 or so years, there's been other smaller influxes of immigration to this area. In the late 1990s, the local housing authorities provided housing for a lot of refugees following the Bosnia-Kosovo conflicts. I'd see these people on a daily basis and they were always friendly and determined to fit in and develop language skills. There was a time I was regularly opening doors to my new neighbours wanting help with words in newspapers &c. Some of these refugees stayed in the area and have since had children and I pass them in the street often. I don't think I've heard any of the kids not speak in English.

It's the same with the same with the Poles. I'm often stopped by Poles in my local supermarket politely asking questions with embarrassed smiles ("what does mean on tin?") or by Poles just saying "hello".

A more personal reference is my partner's parents. They came here in the 1950s unable to speak any English at all. They had crash courses in English and within months were able to read newspapers, books and so in. In fact, they struggle to read their native language now; although I don't say that as a good thing as I think it's important to balance holding on to your roots (whatever they are) and adapting to a new home.

I really don't have a problem with legal immigration as long as the people making new homes make the effort to fit in with the country they presumably found attractive enough to want to move there in the first place. It makes little sense to me in going to a country and then demanding change because it's not the same as the country they left.

Generally, the idea of immigrants not belonging to any specific country on earth is a weird one given the fact of human migratory patterns. That white Australians should have problem with immigrants regarding them not actually belonging is almost laughable. If there was ever a race that shouldn't be in a particular place, it's white Australians! I don't mean that in an offensive way, just highlighting the unnatural way they actually got there in the first place.

*Indians, Pakistanis &c rather the 'Asian' understanding of Chinese, Japanese, Korean &c

well i was in Footscray on Saturday (before the big game ) and i swear it was like i was in south east Asia... although lately there has been an increase in Africans, and i have heard from teachers at my high school that some of the African kids have been having a hard time fitting into the schooling system because its like nothing they have had before.

oh and on the topic of the survey to be honest it doesn't really surprise me ... im sure programs like today tonight and a current affair add to the tensions felt between communities, but honestly these immigrants should at least have the courtesy and respect to learn and adopt the basic Australian vales and the language.

People bring who and what they are with them when they migrate. Very often they do not wish to integrate, particularly if they've moved en masse with half their village. Then, they create the same village .. different country.

For example, an Italian family I know very well and have done for several decades: they moved from a clannish region in Italy. When they arrived in Australia, they sponsored others from their village. They set up basically a little replica of their village in Northern Queensland. Then, ten or so years later, they decided to relocate to Sydney. Dozens of them made their way with their families to the same Sydney suburb, after which others from their region joined them.

They continued to speak their Italian regional dialect .. and still do, close to 55 years after leaving Italy. Many of the older ones still speak no more than a few dozen words in English/Australian. In the suburb which they dominate are Italian businesses which cater to their customers in their regional dialect. Everything these people need is available to them in their own dialect: undertakers, bakers, confectioners, plumbers and other tradesmen, etc. Their children attend school together. That they're Italian (and from X-region) is impressed on the children early and throughout life. They're taught not only to distrust Aussies, but also other Italians from different regions to their own.

I was astonished to discover the depth of loyalty these people have (a) to their native region and (b) to Italy. 'Italy is the best, the greatest. In Italy, everything is better, is perfect.' etc.

Loyalty to Australia isn't a concept that occurs to these people. What's Australia .. what does it matter ? Who cares about Australiano -- they're rubbish people, the women are all sluts and the men are all drunks. In Italy, it's not like this. In Italy, the people are beautiful, always good, not like here in Australia'.

So why did you come here and why do you remain, you ask them.
And they reply that's it's easier here in Australia .. more money .. you're able to get work, buy a house and car and educate your kids. Then they tell you it's 'hard' in Italy. As if that's Australia's fault. As if they're being held in Australia against their will. As if Australians are somehow to blame for the fact they can't afford to return to Italy permanently.

Uh huh. So Australia and it's people are 'no good', according to these migrants of 50-odd years ago.

But then you learn about the region they left behind. And you learn there were no cars, no electricity, massive illiteracy and potato and tomatoes were the only crops worth speaking of and the only form of work.

And you realise they're uneducated peasants. They have been unable to make the mental leap and unwilling to embrace their opportunities fully. Sure, they're prepared to grab Australia's generous Workers Compensation and age and other pensions. They're prepared to take jobs from Aussies via the Italian-network. They just aren't prepared to concede that Australia gave them everything they have and spared them from a poverty-stricken existence had they remained in Perfect Italy.

They're ungenerous and mean of spirit. They still don't even trust people from the region adjoining theirs back in Italy. They try to force their children to live the old ways and to marry people from their region.

We're told in Australia that our lives have been 'enriched' by these migrants and those like them. And let's face it, there are parallels in virtually every race which has migrated to Australia. The Lebanese for instance are highly resistant to any suggestion they adopt Australian ways.

Well, on balance, I don't feel 'enriched' by the unsustainable number of foreign migrants flooding this country. Anything they've brought to this country I could obtain .. should I wish to do so .. via travel videos and cookery books.

I would happily live without this alleged 'enrichment' if it meant I didn't have to cope with six Asians walking abreast through the city, their raucuus voices screeching, their hair dyed ten different shades, their spitting on our once clean sidewalks, their coughing in crowded places without bothering to cover their mouths. And do they ever work ? Who's supporting these people and their endless offspring? No .. I'm kidding. I know who's supporting them: my heavily taxed family and families like them.

And if that's racist -- too bad.

All those people who have a problem with immigrants no doubt still enjoy a kebab or a nice Chinese takeaway every now and then.

As the article states, it's the older generation that has a problem with non Australians, I guess that's something ingrained from world wars and ignorant parents. The younger generation are much more accepting.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I agree with all you've said. The issue with immigration lies with the sense of fear that the lack of integration, community contirbution and fear of gang warfare type senarios that you and others mentioned happening bring about.


The question remains what can we do as individuals to better the situation.