Artifact from Atlantis?

My guess - Its Cambodian or Tia from about the 14th century. It cannot be from Atlantis because Plato's description of Atlantis (the first description) matches a wall mosaic found recently on the western side of Thera and would indicate that the sunken city, as many historians have postulated is in fact the capital of the Mycenaean empire destroyed by the volcano.

Atlantis would be nice

But I don't know where some here get the chinese or arabic from, because meanders are greek and can be seen everywhere, where ancient greek buildings are.

The oxidation on this piece looks more consistent with a faux oxidation technique.
If you compare the next two examples of oxidation(true oxidation) Brass, Copper, and
bronze respectively, you will note a more uniform surface coloration.
brass patina
copper patina
bronze patina
More importantly on the bronze piece notice there is no indication of wear
on any of the edges top of bottom. On the piece presented there is clearly
wear on the upper rim. Being a novice metalurgist the metal appears to be brass. I have seen this type of candle holder at hobby shops for interior decorating. I do believe as someone else has stated that the piece is upside down. My guess would be that what is depicted on the upper rim in the photo holds just on the interior of it a place of fabrication most likely India(Many brass pieces are replicated there but possibly also Taiwan)
Now compare to a faux copper patina template.

and just faux patina

With these examples we can see the differences of true vs. replica. I'm sorry but the piece is in my scholarly opinion a faux with a wonderful story.
--Still new to the site had problems linking original images. So unfortunately I can't make it easy viewing, but at least the info is here.--

[edit on 17/2/10 by Shadowed]

So many people have already replied that I fear my own response will simply be lost among the pile.

I do study Anthropology, and this artifact immediately jumped out at me because it's so familiar. I've seen artwork like it before... not exactly mind you... but similar.

It's very much like bronze art from Shang Dynasty China. This is incredible! Why? Because there is a scientific theory that Native Americans originated in China. Shang Dynasty China to be exact. The artifact is also very reminiscent of Maya art.

Shang Dynasty Bronze piece (Bad quality):
www.art-and-archaeology.com...

Obviously I am very interested in hearing what a real Archeologist/Anthropologist has to say about it. This single artifact is incredible in my own humble opinion.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by aletheia]

reply to post by aletheia


I have been studying Athropology for the past 10 years on my own. I recently started back to college for anthropology/Archaeology. I have also studied art to a large extent. So I am not expert, but well on my way to actually make claim that I am anthropologist, and I replied above as to what I see in that particular piece.
I do see the similarities to the Shang dynasty piece you provided, it is unfortunate that the picture isn't bigger to see the symbols more clearly. However, with the claim that this was at the bottom of the ocean, this piece seems to not bear the markings of such a journey. Everything is very clear on this piece. No pitting and no signs of wear from sand or rock at all is present.
If we are dealing with something of an unknown metal ok...but the only metal/metal alloys that do not readily corrode are titanium, platinum, and gold. On the rim you can clearly see a brass coloration to the metal where the patina has worn off. The most interesting portion is that there is no pitting to that rim either it appears to be beautifully polished brass. Definitely, not something that would normally be associated with being from the bottom of the ocean for millenia, under normal circumstance.
If this happens to be of some unknown metal, Then why does it have the greenish patina associated with bronze, brass, or copper? The only likely explanation being that it is most likely a faux piece.

Simply put, copper, bronze etc cannot last that long in the sea. Nor would it be so perfectly shaped without some erosion over what 500-10, 000 years even if it was land based. It's grooves are still quite formed with no softening or rubbing down. The conditions for land based would have to have been purely arid and air locked to keep it this good. No metal would survive like that without some wear down on the surface, not just oxidation.
It would have oxidized differently to that, near crumbling blueish/white/green, I'd say there is a copper in there. It could be a folded metal if its from Asia.

This object CAN be dated as it has oxidation. If it hasn't been dated by a certified museum (not ma and pas' chintz and glitz from Atlantis museum ) then its the owner pulling your leg.
Also the metals, can be traced by region, down to mine. This work can be done unequivocally.
The museum can also look at the technique used to make it, the type of tools can be ascertained.

It has a mix of styles, classical Mediterranean with possibly arabic or asian natural winds/or spirit symbols,Id say there is a face with wind behind it, which is Asian. However they don't go together usually. So either new to made to look old ( can be done, and they didn't take into consideration that wear needed to come in not just oxidization ) and mish mashed their symbols, or indeed it is from Atlantis
Or it could just be a few hundred years old, post colonialism, where different styles became combined in art work and in fact quite popular.
I would not give this object more than 500 years. Though without touching it, and annalysing it, I have no idea, its safe to say it could be anything.


[edit on 19-2-2010 by zazzafrazz]

Yes it certainly has the design of old chinese bronze.

The border design, the maze if you will is found as far back as the early mesopotamian cultures. It can be found in use around the world early on. It is literaly found eveywhere early and is used in new work of all types. Even newer building. It is even incorparated in the Tome of Pacal of Palenque. I believe it represents an inner sactum.

It certainly does resemble Mayan work. As you may know a good deal of certain art work can be isolated to certain areas as one could go from place to place and find local style.

Post removed

[edit on 9/3/2010 by Pakd-on-mystery]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Here is the most interesting image in my opinion, turned upside down!




Notice the top artwork is indistinct. Looks almost like a cow's head to me on first impression.

The middle motif is clearly and almost definitely in my opinion two human heads facing each other.

The bottom image is representative of a heart, and possibly a soul within a heart?




[edit on 24-9-2008 by 44soulslayer]

[edit on 24-9-2008 by 44soulslayer]

I couldn't help but notice the part where you said two human heads facing each other. A lot of the features are different on each face. For example the hair and the size of the nose, mouth and ears. Maybe it's just a lack of symmetry, but perhaps it symbolizes conflict between two rulers or civilizations.

South American and Celtic Influence comes to mind when i look at those pictures.

Quite possibly even Greek? Note the Greek key pattern?

it looks the right way up to me in the original images.

the part that people are calling a heart or vulva looks to me like a flame so a candle motif and it also seems to me like it should have a glass 'bowl' inset into the 'cup' bit.

IMO it doesn't have a great deal of age and might of been made to be exported, if its been in the sea I can't imagine that its been in the sea for an awfully long time. I'd say at most its 100yrs old... It looks like the metal has been cast rather than hammered.

reply to post by ANNED


I won't quote your entire post, though you said it looks like modern pseudo chinese junk...to which I agree.

It isn't something I'd want in my house at any rate. Even were it hundreds of years old. The art work looks labored and uninspired. Possibly tossed of a ship in a fit of housecleaning?

My first thought when I saw the photo was a... Hookah..
Some are made of brass.

i think it is clearly upside down. looks to me like a pedestal that could possibly hold a bowl made out of the same material. the bowl is obviously missing. it does appear to have an indonesian style dragon motive design. i don't think it's maya at all. the repeating maze design is found in many cultures around the world.

reply to post by Skyfloating
Interesting piece but your story reminds me of one my Apache friend told me.He was young and nieve and in college out side of Ft.Worth.A proffesser let him tag along on a search dig..Using his knowledge of native skills he found what the proffessor was looking for.He handed a nice point to him and said"here"add that to the findings.The proffesor said go ahead and keep it because as soon as you picked it up it was out of situ even though he showed him exactly where he had found it.Modern science has evolved into something so ridiculous that most people take it with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by starless and bible black
reply to post by ANNED

 

I won't quote your entire post, though you said it looks like modern pseudo chinese junk...to which I agree.

It isn't something I'd want in my house at any rate. Even were it hundreds of years old. The art work looks labored and uninspired. Possibly tossed of a ship in a fit of housecleaning?

I tend to agree, its not pretty and it doesn't scream quality either.

It look brass coated to me because that area almost look different color underneath and that the corrosion cause d the brass to peel or ate the layer on 1st photo.

Fascinating thread. I had just been doing some research and looking at the illustrations on the following page (will include link), and stumbled on this website thread, and thought I'd offer my 2 cents. I do believe that anything is possible, and this could possibly be from Atlantis. I think the confluence of designs show a commonality, that is consistent with most theories that Atlantis influenced many ancient cultures. Of course, without proof it's all speculation. What I'm wondering now is, where is the original owner? Have there been any updates? What about his observation of a layer of coral? Do we have a photo of that? In any case, here is a link to the square motif from deep antiquity-

kachina2012.wordpress.com...

reply to post by stikkinikki


Actually I was going to suggest early Art Nouveau or an art Students piece replicating Art Nouveau, which would fit the time it was found and was a pre Art Deco.

Whatever it may be it's a very cool find OP S&F

Hi! Without reading anybody else's interpretations, I think the object has been touched up with an antique
kit of paint. It looks to be made out of brass. However, the black, copper, green colors look like a modern
paint kit. The Greek key makes it seem Grecian. The other curved pictures make it seem Chinese. I think the object was an oil lamp. I would take it on the Antique Road Show or to Chistie's Auction house in New York to get an Art Historian's point of view/ appraisal. Type up the story and tape it to the object so the story does not become lost to the object. Maybe Carbon dating the object would help authenticate it. It just doesn't look that old or like it was covered with barnacals in the ocean.

Good luck and thanks for sharing your photos of this facinating find!