Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

(Edit: Oh look it appeared! Sorry to go on!...)

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?
Heck, I'm miserable a lot of the time now! And I believe there is something better now, not in the future but in the potential of humanity to live according to its created potential to serve and delight in and for one another. Belief is "jam in the hand" not "pie in the sky" for me. This is an extension of my previous comments but I believe faith in God, and yes religion, can be a great bonus to humanity if they are lived with an eye on paradise for sure but with more attention on the world in which God Himself once walked. I read once that because of the various natural cycles of the earth every breath we take contains so many millions of particles once breather by Caesar, I think "stuff Caesar, if that's the case then every breath I take contains something once breathed by Jesus" And, more pertinently, every breath my brothers and sisters on this earth take was once breathed by Him. Humanity has such an awesome capacity for goodness and fellowship. 9/11 showed the depths of human badness but also the heights of its goodness in the lives of those who gave themselves to their brothers and sisters in the effort to save them. Such an analogy for life itself: we can trample on those around us or lift them up. This does not imply that the irreligious cannot serve their fellows, remember who my hero is and I've watched him help so many. My father has spent so much time enlarging his heart through service to others that when his time comes I don't have an anxiety that God will cast him from His presence instead I look forward to my dad being overwhelmed by that encounter with the One who created him to be the good man he is.

[edit on 26/9/08 by Supercertari]

Dave I applaud you,

I also was raised Catholic and as I grew I just didn't understand this Religion. I also had no choice I was made to go to church every week, it wasn't until with age did I know that this is just the way it is.

Our Grandparents taught there children this is the way it is then our parents followed the process with us and many follow this process with there children. This was all handed down from Generation to Generation because this is the way it was taught.

When things came clear for me was when I put what people now call abductions/experiences together. I to this day use the word experiencer for myself because people understand this but in truth it is much more then that.

I know about me because they allowed me to know many things. I had written this before but I do feel as if I need to tell of this again. In short I was what you would call an Alien and I was taken to an area on one of the Ships where I saw others like myself but "very tall" and this was the first I knew that there were "very" tall ones like myself. I was told these were the Elders, the "CREATORS". In short one Elder asked me if I would go to Earth to help the human race when it was time and I asked if it was for the good and the reply.... yes, it was for the good. I am to help the human race when it is time.

Enough of that for the moment the rest of this is written here on ATS somewhere. In my life I made connections with so many things and realized things were in pieces and I had to put my pieces in the right sequences. Religion I realized here on Earth is a needed part by most people. The Churches knew what they were doing and they used all kinds of trickery on the people and most people needed this because it made them feel special in there Hearts plus the Church could use this to there advantage and live well from it.

Our Creator's can take Souls from elsewhere and send then here to do certain jobs such as Jesus all the way up or down if and when needed.

As much as people won't believe or not understand is this: Everything on this Planet is/has been recorded. unfortunately as much as you don't want to think this, Earth is a Laboratory to them and this Planet is studied. (hmmm we are a Science project in human terms)

I have to cut this short but many people need Religion and there belief's in there Hearts and this is good as long as it "doesn't hurt another."

I have always written I observe and I have opened myself to tell all I am a human with a Alien Soul.... one that was sent here by your Creator's whom you call Gods.

The reason I can write this is because I know how people are and words are taken different ways by different people. I know most will think what I write is bunk and that's okay because to me I can get it out and know some will understand what I write.

In plain English Religion is needed by many and there is nothing wrong with that but in truth your Gods/Creator's are extremely tall Grey's.

Heaven is the skies which means Universe and yes they do use what you call UFO's for travel and visits. This entire Planet is monitored every minute of every day and I'll leave it at that.

Life isn't what you were taught.

Dave you are a sensitive, loving man ain't ya!




[edit on 26-9-2008 by observe50]

I want to say something, about what a 'debate' actually is.

The ability to debate requires an elimination of emotion. Because, sometimes the subject matter MAY invite emotional responses.

As I write this, this revelation (no pun intended) came to me, because it is Friday, 26 September, 2008 at about Noon (my time zone) and we're anxiously expecting a great, FIRST Debate between the Presidential Candidates.

At first glance, it may seem I have deflected this thread....but I am only using ONE example, of a debate process, that could be thought about to utilize in the discussion on this thread.

Perhaps, after November 4th ( and best of luck to each Candidate... ) we could use the same 'debating' skills to use here.

We must all be keenly aware of our emotions, when we try to debate....and, in fact, I know that a TRUE debate might invite a person to espouse the 'other side', even if it isn't their view. BUT, that is a true debate, without emotion, .....as was said in a classic Radio and then TV show...."Just the Facts, Ma'am".

This thread is the only one I find enjoyable.

The reason I come here at all is to find some place that I can have a real conversation, not an argument or a debate.

My life has been in service to God that is to the idea of God being a living God that is what my whole self, soul, body, and mind, is dedicated to.

It is a kind of slavery only a voluntary one, but whether it is a curse or a blessing is hard to say, because it is beyond just a choice I made, it is what I was born to be and do, I could not escape it even if I decided to try, it’s woven into the fabric of who and what I am.

I was baptized in the Mississippi river, at the age of six, where there was once a secret hiding place for confederate soldiers during the civil war, a place called the blue hole.

When I was being dunked, I remember a group of women standing on the bank singing, “Love Lifted Me.”

The reason for the baptism was because my mamma didn’t know what else to do with me.

Angels and demons would visit me in the night; no one would believe me even when I would tell them to come see for themselves.

No one believing me is the thing I think led to the main reason for my mother’s actions, that is that I suffered from horrible violent nightmares, so extreme that they were physically hurtful?

My mother did the only thing at the time she could afford and thought might help me, which was send me to church.

God is with me of that there is no doubt because what He has me do most for Him is miracles.

It is a sad and heavy hurt in me to see that so few people believe in such wonders today.

So I come here from time to time in the hope that God will work in some other human being out there to say they understand, and inspirit they are a brother of mine.

reply to post by Sublime620


Yeah, you misquoted me very badly. I was saying that because the messenger was faulty those of us who were brought up in religion don't like those people because they were faulty. We had to learn to look past their faults so we could exist well.

However, some believe those people to much and never saw enough of right. It is pitiful that you have this book to spur you toward higher knowledge but when you see those you counted on, don't have a clue , its kinda scary.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by rightwingnut]

I wanted to add a few more cents with my personal opinion.

I do not believe it is as hard as Churchs and some Christians make this out to be ..I was a Christian (sort of ) for like 25 years ...It just wasnt working out for me ..mainly because I only called the Lord when I needed him ..(Did he come ? You bet he did even in my darkest nights) ..he didnt come to me like I thought he would (In other words my prayers were not answered as I would have wanted it to happen ..but it was his way and in his time which turned out for the better for me anyway ) ....One day after all those years of me totally failing on how my life should be run ....I said ok Lord ..so lets try it your way because mine sure as heck isnt working ..and I gave him my WHOLE LIFE that day ..
At first I thought I wanted to keep back a part of myself ...I mean after all we think we know the way right ?Wrong ...again he showed me that my way was seriously in error ....so I gave myself up to him 100 % ....and he still allows me to be myself (he does not take that away ) in fact he actually molds you into the best that yourself can be at least in this world right now ...it isnt about rules and regulations its more about self discipline (which comes from the power of the Holy Spirit within you ) ......
I cannot even imagine what sort of mess my life and my personality would be in if I had not given him myself completely all those years ago ..
I have no regrets since that day ..and not once have I wanted to take my own life back ...I am not a drone ..neither am I brainwashed ..I am just well TAUGHT on how to be all that you can be ..(with yourself and with others) .
And that teaching was not from Church ..nor was it from books (except of course spiritual food from reading the bible) ....it came from the HOLY SPIRIT of God within me (Which I receieved the day I seriously asked for the Lord to come into my heart completely) Giving up myself was really the hardest part to do and yet that was the MOST IMPORTANT thing to do ...

I did not know love till I felt that Holy Spirit in my heart ..the love I thought was love was NOTHING compared to how I felt after recieving that Holy Spirit ....and it is not just a one time infilling of that Holy Spirit..it is everyday filling ... ...and it grows with every minute I spend meditating on my Lord and reading about him and actually feeling his presense more and more in my heart ..........and I feel closer and closer to my Lord everyday ........and closer to knowing what true love and mercy and compassion and forgiveness really is .

Long story short ..If you TRULY are seeking him ..and you truly want to know him ...then just let go of yourself (THE I I I syndrome)and admit that you NEED HIM and do need to be freed of those sins that so easily beset us ..
Then you will for sure find him ..The real him ..not the one that alot of supposed Christians say he is ..but the REAL ONE ..with the REAL SOLUTIONS that will help you in this REAL WORLD >


God bless

reply to post by Simplynoone



I just wanted to say after reading your post that I know you are a believing believer that is to say you don't just talk about believing you live by faith the way God has made possible for us to do.

I say the same thing you said all the time, not like you though, this is the way I say it.

"Die to this world to live to God or live to this world to die to God."

I hope reading these words blesses you as much as reading yours have blessed me.


[edit on 26-9-2008 by newday]

I haven't read the thread (sorry, no time), but here's another response:

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

a1: Some are. Some are not. Too much of a sweeping generalization in the question imo. This is the sort of question you can answer for your whole life and not get the whole truth...

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

a2: Get them young, get them for life. Some people are very vulnerable to this and get into a permanent fear based mindset. I guess the modern term would be neurolinguistic programming or something along those lines. Fear is the only real control mechanism and churches sometimes exploit it. Why does the bible end in the apocalypse and not on the love message? Fear. Control. Problem - reaction - solution.

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

a3: Sometimes. For other people it is just habit. Something to do to get out of the house on [insert religious day here].

My own life path has made me a spiritual agnostic, which is kinda wierd. I have had experiences that have showed me that there is more to this life than what the nihilists defend, and that it's nature is similar, but not identical to what religions describe.

At this point in time I'm leaning to the existence of a universal force, energy, vibration, which is the engine of creation and which is a life force, ie, it is conscious, plastic and participative in the evolution of reality. It is everywhere and composes everything. This would be called Love, the word we have which most closely describes this. It's absense would be fear, and this would be the basic duality which gets the ball rolling, which creates the universe and all the other dualities, good and bad, day and night, fat and thin... Another way to say this is existence is a fractal structure, which starts off by the division of a singularity into love and it's negation, fear, and the growth from there on in, into everything we can see now, and that which we cannot see.

Here's where the atraction principle kicks in, deny love and you atract it's opposite, or it's absence. Accept love and you link up with the good stuff, with the positive structure of the universe. And good things happen. My own life experiences support the above philosophy, but it's just a rough draft, take it for what it's worth at this point.

I give you guys a frame, up to you paint the picture For me religion, or spirituality, which imo is a much better term, has to be a personal path. Authoritive hierarchical religious structures are the bane of our society. If you allow someone to position himself between you and god, or love in my terminology, then that person both seperates you from source and controls your access to it, giving you tiny sips so to control your soul like a drug fencer controls his clientele... I cannot understate the importance of a personal connection here. Meditate folks, know the inner workings of yourselves, don't look for the answers outside, chances are religious professionals know less about this stuff than many of the people asking them for advice. Some people have native spiritual balance and you can learn more from observing kind loving smiling people than most priests.

I'll try and find time to read the other responses later, perhaps by becoming a hermit with a mobile internet connection for a couple of years.

Bye.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by Zepherian]

May God bless you Newday ....thank you ....
All Glory to GOD ....he is the reason we even have breath ..how could we not give ourselves completely to him ..He knows the end from the beginning ..and he knows everything about us ....his way is the only way that does not lead to death and destruction (I am not going down with this world ..which is why I am in this world but will not be a part of the world ) ....the world is temporary ..this life is temporary ..I want to make it the BEST LIFE can be ..and I did not even come close to that till I gave my whole heart mind and soul and to him .........



Zeph ...I absolutely agree with what you said below ...

[For me religion, or spirituality, which imo is a much better term, has to be a personal path. Authoritive hierarchical religious structures are the bane of our society. If you allow someone to position himself between you and god, or love in my terminology, then that person both seperates you from source and controls your access to it, giving you tiny sips so to control your soul like a drug fencer controls his clientele... I cannot understate the importance of a personal connection here. Meditate folks, know the inner workings of yourselves, don't look for the answers outside, chances are religious professionals know less about this stuff than many of the people asking them for advice. Some people have native spiritual balance and you can learn more from observing kind loving smiling people than most priests.]

The one thing I do believe though is that sometimes God will use others (A Church service or two ) to aid in bringing in a lost one ..I have been in dead Churchs before where someone new came in and the Holy Spirit was all over that Church just that day ....so that new person would come to the alter and give his heart to Christ ..(The Holy Spirit is NOT LIMITED) ..

But then again I have also been pretty much kicked to the curb by a church once ..I dared to ask questions on what they were preaching ..and they didnt have answers and it embaressed them in front of their congregation ..
They set up a panel to answer my questions and then invited all the members so it was their doings not mine ...it worked out though ..because those beautiful members all got to hear how they were being taught stuff that was not right ...Alot of them left when I did ...





[edit on 27-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

I see religion as an "After Life Insurance Policy". So long as you keep dropping money into the collection box on Sundays, they'll ensure you a reserved seat in heaven.

I see religion as a crutch for those who fear the unknown and the chaotic universe - as well as a population control device for those who seek power over others.

I don't believe you need a religion to be a good person and do the right thing by others. However, sometimes it makes me think that people who subscribe to religions do need it to walk a straight path... I mean confession boxes... how convenient are those when you wish to absolve yourself from the bad conscience of being an 4$$h01e to someone else!

I won't even begin to talk about the millions of people who get killed in the name of a god. It's extremely convenient to blame a pretend friend for committing genocide isn't it.

In short religion is a blight on humanity and the sooner it goes away, the sooner our cultural differences will go away and the sooner we can start feeling responsible. I guess you could call that the next step in our evolution. It's time to sack the babysitters and grow up!

IRM

[edit on 27/9/08 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I tend to agree with you, as long as organised collective religion is replaced with an individual spirituality or at the very least ethics, which of course will disseminate through populations. It's perfectly possible to have self organising collectives without a hierarchy, especially with intelligent beings like humans.

You're right with the whole "God made me do it" angle of course. So many sick people clinging to the fantasy of a higher power so as to not accept their own personal responsability and choices.

Star for you.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Can it not be said, that there are some men who firmly believe in racism?
And can it not also be said, that there are some men, who are firmly against racism?

Both men are entitled to their belief.
One belief is right, and the other is wrong. But how does one know?
Each point of view would be hard pressed to convince the other.

To walk the shoes of someone who is racially discriminated against, is to know that it is wrong. To place the racist in a position of oppression due to color of their skin, would help them to understand its injustice.

Are all the churches, governments, and law enforcement officers corrupt by the actions of a mislead few?

I submit that the very premise by which the church was formed, like the creation of police departments and governing bodies, is upon a premise of Love, Life, Liberty,Truth, Equality and Justice. Not for a select few, but for every man, woman and child.

And that even though there are those, that have exhibited great carelessness in the governing of those bodies, that the original intent and foundation is as sound today as it was when it was formed. That in no way should the originator of the premise be found lesser through the actions of its body, for it was not he that transgressed, but the followers.

There are those that base their disbelief in God, on the actions of the churches, yet the Bible is rife with God continually directing and correcting the Israelites. Should one look, they would see that this was a process of great difficulty due to the straying of some, of the original tribes.

Same with Governing institutions, corruption, and irresponsible governing.

The passage to coming to know God, is to know his way. And that way is one of Love, Altruism, Kindness, charity, and forgiveness.

The path to understanding America, is to understand the premise on which this great nation was formed.

To understand what it means to be an American, and to live as an American, gives one insight into what America is.

The premise of this great nation is right. But not everything that has been done within its borders, or in her name has always been right, yet we forge ahead.

And just as that can be said, doing that which is Gods will, leads one to understanding who God is.

Peace


[edit on 27-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

I tend to agree with you, as long as organised collective religion is replaced with an individual spirituality or at the very least ethics, which of course will disseminate through populations. It's perfectly possible to have self organising collectives without a hierarchy, especially with intelligent beings like humans.

You're right with the whole "God made me do it" angle of course. So many sick people clinging to the fantasy of a higher power so as to not accept their own personal responsability and choices.

"God made me do it" really has nothing to do with this thread...that's like someone saying, "the devil made me do it"....what does that have to do with beliefs?

What actions you take has nothing to do with what unseen being or entity or religion you believe in, if any.

reply to post by mmariebored


Yes, many people hang onto the "God made me do it" belief to justify what in reality are bad options of sick minds. For these people religion is a release valve.

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by mmariebored

 

Yes, many people hang onto the "God made me do it" belief to justify what in reality are bad options of sick minds. For these people religion is a release valve.

Then that's really a matter of the mentally ill vs a sound minded person who has a belief in an entity(God, in general), a religion(in general) or no belief at all. That was my point. This thread is about sound-minded people's beliefs. Flaming would be saying all or even most people who believe in an entity are mentally ill and would use the excuse, "God made me do it."...as if they have no sense of responsibility.
That wasn't a very nice thing to say, is all.

reply to post by mmariebored


Faith can be a mental disease, it just depends on what the belief system is. Believing in a vengefull God that makes you hate non christians or go to hell, and everyone knows this is the mindset of a large number of christians, to me is a sign of a psychological pathology, or at the very least a large degree of stupity.

Now, actually following the words of christ would yield a different result, something closer to oriental life religions. I guess it's all in the interpretation, as religion is a complex source, which can cater for both the sane and the mad.

This might not be a nice thing to say, but honesty makes me call it as I see it.

WHERE IS DAVE RABBIT when we NEED HIM??????

Dave dinged me, then apologized for his rashness....and I appreciate that.

I have contemplated, about this subject, for a few days now.

IS RELIGION a 'security blanket'?????

I've made it quite clear, I believe in 'rational thinking'.

Others in my life, as I've made clear, have what they call a 'faith'.

We shall not discuss, nor 'argue' the various "Faiths", since we know how well they've been disuccussed and 'argued' already.

If you wish to involve the 'Peanuts' characters, in the 'security blanket' argument...tben 'Linus' uses his "security blanket" as his 'protection' from the outside world.....it is his fantasy, as a metaphor....from what he may fear, as he grows up.

However, since Charles Schultes (sp?) is no longer with us, there is NO WAY I am qualified to speak for him.

These are just MY opinions.

I just hope that everyone who reads 'Charley Brown' takes away a little something that was intended. Because, it was meant to convey a better way to live, after all.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Charles schulz was a Christian!
Beliefnet

Schulz's message can't be reduced to a simple smiley face, but it is good news nonetheless. His child prophet, Charlie Brown, yearned to be Pollyanna, but he keeps tripping over the human condition. Schulz started with Peale and added the dark night of the soul. And over 50 years, the "Peanuts" gang taught us more than we realize about the Christian life.

This concept, whether 'religion' is a 'security blanket' certainly generates a lot of emotional response, which is EXACTLY what Dave, the OP hoped to avoid.

My apologies, to Dave Rabbit, for bringing Charles Shultze into the mix....the mere fact that he was a christian has nothing to do with the extant of this discussion.

Christianity is NOT the only religion in the entirety of Human history.

I will postulate that 'religion' was driven from a very strong, inner need, to attempt to understand, as we, the species, developed the ability to expand from the simple, instinctive ability of "Flight or Fight"....into a more contemplative (when our bellies were full, and we felt safe) reflection....the ability to reason, and thusly try to understand the World around us.

As an agraian, nomadic society, I don't think they had a lot of time for scientific discoveries. Hence, the "religions" ....developed. (Mostly handed down, as lore). The invention of the Printing Press, circa 1400...((Gutenberg))...must have send shivers down the spines of the oppressors, of the era.

I dont postulate or theorize there is a God. I know.
Not from a book or word of mouth.
Not from going to church or chanting.
Not from pondering the larger picture, or listening to others.

When you hear the voice, youll know this is true. You will question yourself, and perhaps your very sanity. Doubt may set in. A psychological experience? or a paranormal phenomena?

Think of the most blind sided experience you have ever had. An unexpected visit, and a revelation in the greatest order. It is undeniable to the receiver, and unbelievable to the doubter. Do you believe in yourself?

When you hear the voice, the blankets come off and the Dogma evaporates. The intervention in your life that seemed unbelievable, becomes undeniable

The Magnificent unseen, becomes real, and when one looks at history, and hears the multitude of ways in which God sends his word to the prophets, no longer will you wonder. You will know. A narrow journey to be sure.
A road less traveled.

Every person reading this, has access to the entrance of the path. Not every person will journey.

Peace



[edit on 5-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]