Conspiracy to Split up the U.S.

To EarthCitizen07:

you said: - "We may disagree on certain critical issues but you have made some valant points. I hope you have not taken my criticism personal as it was not meant to be. Thanks for the debate!"

Of course we disagree on certain critical issues, coming from polar opposites of the political spectrum and all. However, that doesn't mean we need to get rabid-dog, foamin' at the mouth, fightin' mad about everything. That would be counter productive, and generally drives folks further away from where you'd like them to be. Folks can have the same general interests at heart (the well-being of the country) while still disagreeing on methods and proceedures. That used to be the American way, and still should be. It makes for a healthier nation. I didn't take your criticism personal, you weren't criticising me, rather the government at large, and an ideology you disagree with. Nothing personal there. Besides that, as a security guard now, if I took everything personally, I'd have sucided long ago. We take a lot of junk from folks that don't mean anybody well, and I too can find a lot to be critical of in this current administration. All in all, I think it was a pretty good example of how polar opposites COULD interact on issues of importance, without coming to blows over it, and were this the real world, I'd be proud to call you a friend.

To Isispriest:

I'll try to just hit the high points here, as I suspect folks are getting weary of plodding through these megaposts of mine.

"I am a 53 yr old. Proud Very liberal/pinko. I am a US citizen and Canadian citizen. I am fortunate to be in Canada and raising my children here, where competing against your neighbour for your next dollar is not the driving force of life.
I am amazed at the lack of education and information that people have. Opinions held with such fervor are based upon? Who knows? Well I 'spose if a person is willing to think that dinosaur bones are put in the Earth by Satan to deceive us, then it is not much of a stretch to think that the government of the USA helps the downtrodden of the world".

A prime example of what causes the divisions that the OP lamented. In this case, the poster cannot even decide on their citizenship, and so divides their loyalties with a dual citizenship - on paper at least. In reality though, I think I can discern her loyalties by the tenor of the post. I too am amazed by the lack of education and information people have, particularly when I see it replaced by information they THINK they have.

ok, so I gotta do one more post to finish this. Please remember, "it's for the children"

---more to come---

To Isispriest Continued--

"The Truth is the government of the USA has been very nasty to the common folk of the world and continues to be.
USA was built on the blood of the First Nations people that were slaughtered in every state. The economy relied upon the enslavement of the Negro Race for almost a hundred years of cruelty. My own family was shot at by the damn Pinkertons hired by the Rockefellers and their mine owner friends, for trying to start unions in the 1880's. This was not uncommon into the 1910's."

The "First Nations" (love those categorizing, politically correct catch phrases) did our share of slaughter too, collecting scalps along the frontier, women and children included. Not something to be proud of, but something to keep in mind when we discuss these "one-sided" conflicts. As a matter of fact, the guy who paid bounty on the scalps collected by us was named Hamilton (indians called him the "Hair Buyer") and was based in peaceful little old Canada. So much for those halcyon days. As I've said before, that was then, this is now. The economy of the US was NOT based on " the enslavement of the Negro Race (politically incorrect term there, Black folks around here take umbrage at the term), although the micro economies of minor parts of it were. Typical example of a sweeping generalization used in an attempt to bolster an untenable position, a prime cause of the divisions of which we speak. Slavery existed from 1619 to 1865, a span of nearly 250 years. Am I to assume from the post that only "almost a hundred" of those years involved cruelty? I think not.
Regarding the unionization of the mines, the shooting continued until well past the 1910's, at least into the 1980's. I can tell you first hand that the shooting was NOT one sided, and as in any other war, the people most affected were the bystanders. It was still happening every 3 years like clockwork when I last left the area. Your unionizers are not the innocents you portray, but plenty of innocents paid for their greed, and that of the mine owners. Greed is greed, I don't care who owns it, right or left. We used to have to carefully plan our routes, or stay at home, during the strikes, to avoid ambushes and road blocks. Not everyone was succesful.

There's just too much meat in this one. I've got to do one more, as it reponds to one of my pet peeves (yeah, I've got 'em too, same as everyone).
--- one more ---

To Isispriest (continued)--

You said: "How about, as has been mentioned, 250,00 civilian deaths in Chili, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and El Salvador by right wing death squads and military supported and armed by USA because peasants wanted land or a fair wage or safe mines, 73 to 93. Call them commies because they want to break up the feudal banana plantations and let some peasants have some land. Dole Fruit Co. doesn't like it so the USA supplies weapons to thugs to murder innocents, nuns, priests, trade unionists, university students by the thousands!"

After 20 years, these claims of evil "right wing death squads" in Central America still amaze me. I can't speak about Chile or Guatemala, but I DO have a smattering of first hand knowledge about Nicaragua and El Salvador. I barely made it out of Nicaragua alive in July of 1979. Those peaceful LEFT wing death squads, intoxicated with their victory I suppose, were executing folks at border checkpoints. I had to sneak across Rio Coco in the night to avoid it. That was in what was then Departmento Zelaya, now called Regio Autonoma Altlantico del Norte. You forgot to mention the forced relocation of thousands of Miskito indians into manageable communes by the Sandinistas, and the fact that this caused huge refugee camps across the Rio Coco in Honduras, preceipitating the Contra War. That's how your "peasants" got their land. Individual land ownership was outlawed at the time, and collectives, forced if necessary, were the rule of the day. Could it be that the only "First Nations" you "care" about are those you can use to promote your cause? I guess they got their Dole Fruit Company land, whether they wanted it or not. In the 1980's, El Salvador was "the cause". I was in Morazon, where the actual guerillas were. I was surprised to get back home and read about "right wing death squads" in the newspapers. Can someone tell me where they were? San Salvador maybe. perhaps these death squads were afraid to go where there be dragons, for fear they might get hurt. If so, then the press feared the place too, and just reported from San Salvador. I saw no "right wing death squads" at the sharp end. I DID see guerillas "drafting" campesinos, who just wanted to be left alone to farm. We DID intercept M16 rifles being smuggleed across Golfo de Fonseca from Nicaragua into Morazon, to the guerillas. US made M16's. When the serial numbers were traced, it was found that the rifles in question were some of those left behind by the US in Vietnam. Bet you never read about that in the papers here. Go figure.

"Free to be a wage slave and pay 3 to 4 times the value of a home in interest. Free to create a small business and cutthroat compete with your neighbour to afford inadequate health insurance."

Yes. Free to do so, or not, as the inclination strikes. I believe being a "wage slave" (without wages, how do you get your money up there?) is preferrable to being an "owned" slave. As a wage slave, I can walk off this plantation any old time I please.

There was more, but I just can't bring myself to subject the board to it. I did find points where I agreed with you, but I'm afraid my generally disagreeable nature took control of me. My main point was that your opinions appear to have been formed in front of a TV, and mine weren't. This does not, of course, invalidate your views. I respectfully submit that you ought to at least be able to entertain the notions of crazy old coots who, for all our irrationality, have been there, done that, and checked it off. Might be part of the cause of our irrationality.

To the board in general: anyone that I put to sleep with all this rambling, should wake up and go to bed now. It's been a long day.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by justamomma

You are aware that your rulers follow our rulers orders for war crimes, no? The Royal Australian Navy, Royal Australian Air Force, and the Australian Army all committed to and helped carry out the invasion of iraq in 2003. In fact, those of your military who are still there have just now started to be pulled out on june 1, 2008.

So, I know there are some great ppl in australia, but if you are all going to stand by while your rulers kiss our rulers arses in carrying out war crimes on a massive scale, then I think you should admit that you are living under the same rulers (indirectly) that we are, in essence meaning you carry as much responsibility in dealing with the problem

Kissing the arses of those who are evil is more shameful than being evil, don't you think?

It seems some people have a very short memory. They forget colonialism started in western europe many centuries ago. England, Spain and France were the "champions". Any person with a basic secondary and/or college education should be more knowledgable and less biased.

I get amazed when people say "america is the most hated country in the world and I hate it with a passion". Very ignorant! Don't get me wrong as I already went out of my way to show how bad republicans can be but there are limits and blanket statements of hate are irrational at best.

At the same time I find it HYPOCRITICAL of Brits and Aussies to be complaining about american foreign policy while at the same time their own government AGREED to the Iraqi war. If you are going to blame america at least have the decency to blame your own government FIRST since they betrayed your trust.

Justamomma thanks for pointing out these inconsistencies. I was going to let some of these statements go unchallenged but that would have been unfair.

I gave you a star!

[edit on 21-9-2008 by EarthCitizen07]