Rosie O'Donnnell & Willie Rodriquez on 9/11/08

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Oh and by the way, i never posted the Iranian story as fact...

ok, so by your standards then, we should igbnore your story, because it is another twisted media lie, which is attempting to brainwash us, correct?

Didnt you say the media was brainwashing us, and we should not believe the media? Are you saying media stories can be used as evidence now?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Please show me the diagram of the elavtors and which go to what floors then.

Starts about 1/2 way down - 911stories.googlepages.com...

It also details how cars #5 and 6 went down to B5, and how those shafts, and others, were continuous to the impact zone.

Originally posted by jprophet420

So should you. Bsbray has a thread debunking the jet fuel story right here in this forum. Funny I don't remember you finding any fallacy in that thread.

Ha ha....

BsBray also thought that the discussion about whether or not nukes were used on the towers was a good one.

That alone disqualifies any of his opinions.

Originally posted by djeminy
Isn't funny, that when one ask simple straight forward questions, an answer is never forthcoming!

If you bothered to read the links provided. You would have found your answers.

Oh, and please attempt to refrain from posting idiotic preambles in your posts regarding me.

That being said, I have a little more information for you. Sorry you don't like to read cut and pasted information from professionals.

YOU:

Some of it even reached the basement. How did it get separated from the other exploding jet fuel without catching fire from this already exploding fuel?

NIST estimated that about 20 percent of the jet fuel released in each aircraft impact was consumed in the large fireballs that were seen outside the buildings within seconds of impact.

NIST concluded that up to 3,000 gallons of jet fuel flowed down elevator shafts and stairwells within each building. Based on eyewitness accounts, some of this fuel was on fire as it fell.

Simply put:

1-Plane hits.

2-About 20% of the fuel goes through the tower and out the other side, where it's efficiently mixed with air as a fine aerosol and deflagrates in a matter of a few seconds.

3-The remaining 80% is present as an aerosol mixed with the air inside the tower, and there is a similar deflagration; however, this consumes all the oxygen present in the impact floors in a few seconds, leaving large quantities of unburnt jet fuel.

4-Some of this soaks into carpets and furnishings, and some drains down elevator shafts and holes in the floors caused by impact damage.

Please read a snip from this article:
(some may be graphic)

"We started going up the B stairway. As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about ? I didn't recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That's when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that's the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you're camping and you drop a kerosene lamp."

-Peter Blaich in Firehouse Magazine /April 2002

Article can be found here

From the 51st floor

–Yeah, this is the police desk. Did you get that message that there’s burning jet fuel on the 51st floor, one World Trade Center?
–There’s what burning?
–Burning Jet fuel!

Transcript Port Authority WTC Ch. 17 Fire Command, WTC 1, pg. 3

``We thought it was a bomb in the freight elevator,'' Beerman said, because the sound of the explosion seemed to have come from that direction.

He headed into a corridor with about 15 co-workers and made his way down the stairs from the 53rd floor. The lights were still on but the stairwell reeked of smoke and something that smelled like kerosene. Beerman and others had to step aside so people who had been burned could descend more rapidly _ and so firefighters could head up the stairs.

www.firehouse.com...

David Frank: As we got into the low 40's the jet fuel got much more intense to the point where I thought we might pass out. People were clearly suffering the intense fumes and others were clearly beginning to panic. Roselle was not doing well panting heavily and we all needed water. Some people began passing small Poland Spring water bottles up to us from the floor below. This was a real relief. Roselle loved it. It cut some of the fuel taste burning our throats. It eased our sense of dehydration and smoke inhalation. Besides, it was wet.
I opened the door to the 40's floor and we momentarily stood in the doorway. I looked and saw no one on the floor. Smoke, and the smell of more jet fuel. We kept to the stairway.

Today, I believe that when the aircraft hit the north face of the tower, it's momentum, driven by the aircraft structure and fuel, vivisected the floor, slicing through the elevator shaft and effectively dumping fuel from the low 90's all the way down to the bottom. That's why we kept smelling fuel almost all the way down.

www.mwoa.org...

Mercedes Rivera: I saw a burned woman in a sitting position in the lobby, as if she was still typing behind a desk.... She was already dead.”

Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba. Women at Ground Zero: Stories of Courage and Compassion. Indianapolis: Alpha Books, 2002. P. 22

Some interesting stats from witnesses in the buildings. (some floors had multiple reports)

64 people on 43 levels below the impact zones reported smelling or contacting jet fuel/kerosene on these floors

North Tower: 87, 85, 83, 81, 78, 63, 62, 60, 57, 53, 52, 47, 46, 40, 39, 36, 35, 34, 33, 29, 27, 25, 13, 12, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, Plaza level, Concourse, B1, B6, and one unknown floor.

South Tower: 75, 74, 68, 61, 40, 25, Plaza Level, Concourse.


33 people on 18 levels below the impact zones reported seeing fireballs coming from elevator shafts or down hallways

North Tower: 91, 88, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 7, Plaza Level, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown level).

South Tower: 75, 70, Plaza level, Concourse.


29 people on 19 levels below the impact zones described fires on these floors

North Tower: 89, 88, 85, 83, 81, 78, 77, 72, 53, 46, 45, 22, 4, Plaza level, Concourse, Unknown upper levels.

South Tower: 50, Concourse.


49 people on 23 levels below the impact zones reported seeing elevators/shaft doors blown out or severely damaged.

North Tower: 89, 88, 86, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 45, 22, 3, Plaza Level, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown levels).

South Tower:78, 74, 44, Concourse, one unknown level.


8 people on 4 levels below the impact zones were burned in elevators and survived (does not include ST 78th floor)

North Tower:78, Concourse, B1.

South Tower: Concourse.


14 people on 9 levels below the impact zones survived burns or other injuries from blasts from elevator shafts

North Tower: 89, 88, 85, 83, 78, Concourse, B1, B4, B6.


26 people on 17 levels below the impact zones reported fallen elevators (11 were in the elevators and survived).

North Tower: 91, 88, 78, 47, 42, 27, 15, 7, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown level), Unknown upper levels.

South Tower: 19, 12, Concourse.

13 (non-deaf) people on 12 levels below the impact zone didn’t hear the aircraft impact/explosion on their building

North Tower: 88, 81, 72, 62, 60, 50, 35, 34, 28, 8, Concourse, B6.

50 people on 31 levels below the impact zones described significant secondary damage (walls down, doors jammed, broken pipes, stairwells disintegrating, etc. Not intended to suggest structural damage.)

North Tower: 88, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 76, 74, 72, 71, 68, 63, 40, 30, 29, 22, 21, Plaza level, Concourse, B1, B4, B6, Basement (level unknown)

South Tower: 76, 70, 68, 67, 40, Plaza level, Concourse.


[edit on by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by gavron ok, so by your standards then, we should igbnore your story, because it is another twisted media lie, which is attempting to brainwash us, correct?

NO, only ignore it if you cannot verify the information or find facts to debate the story. There are plenty of facts to question or debate the official media story.

Didnt you say the media was brainwashing us.

Some people seemed to be brainwashed to believe whatever the media tells them, and will not accept anythign that disagrees with what have been told.


[edit on 25-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by Seymour Butz

Originally posted by jprophet420

So should you. Bsbray has a thread debunking the jet fuel story right here in this forum. Funny I don't remember you finding any fallacy in that thread.

Ha ha....

BsBray also thought that the discussion about whether or not nukes were used on the towers was a good one.

That alone disqualifies any of his opinions.

no, no it doesent by a long shot. and as long as you use logic like that you will be reading and comprehending on a high school level.

That is not an insult, that is how it works.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by jprophet420]

Originally posted by jprophet420

no, no it doesent by a long shot.

Uhhh, yes it does.

It proves that, like Elvis, the kid's objectiveness and critical thinking skills have left the building.

And since you also seem to think that the whole nuke discussion has any validity to it, then I guess that applies to you also.

Originally posted by Seymour Butz

Originally posted by jprophet420

no, no it doesent by a long shot.

Uhhh, yes it does.

It proves that, like Elvis, the kid's objectiveness and critical thinking skills have left the building.

And since you also seem to think that the whole nuke discussion has any validity to it, then I guess that applies to you also.

You speak of objectiveness and critical thinking without applying them yourself.

GG.

reply to post by jprophet420


I'm not sure what ANY of this has to do with Willie or Rosie. This is getting more like an Ultima argument.

Can we stay on topic???

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by jprophet420

 

I'm not sure what ANY of this has to do with Willie or Rosie. This is getting more like an Ultima argument.

Can we stay on topic???

The topic is you bashing them. So its not much of a topic to stay on to begin with. And I am pointing out (again and again and again) that discrediting a person does not discredit logic.

Maybe when some of the people that hate hate truthers around here find a leg to stand on they wont be subjected to so much scrutiny.

I swear to god its like the eopisode of Family guy where Lois just keeps repeating 911 was bad and everyone rallies behind her.

Originally posted by jprophet420

I swear to god its like the eopisode of Family guy where Lois just keeps repeating 911 was bad and everyone rallies behind her.

BULLCHIPS! The topic is Willie and Rosie who both parrot false stories. Willie was shown his mistakes in his stories and continues to repeat them. That makes his statements disingenuous. I have proven several false statements by him. Is that bashing?

I don't hate anyone on here. I dislike the manipulation of the facts that is often presented.

That was a GREAT episode. It was when Lois was running for office.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
I don't hate anyone on here. I dislike the manipulation of the facts that is often presented.

If you hate the manipulation of facts so much why do you only parrot what the media tells you instead of thinking for yourself and finding the facts?

Ultima here are the sources I used for the above post regarding jet fuel and fire balls:

-NIST: civilian and first responder interviews.

-Firehouse Magazine: Peter Blaich Firefighter

-Mount Wilson Observatory Association member David Franks eyewitness statements.

-Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba. Women at Ground Zero: Stories of Courage and Compassion.

What media am I quoting here that isn't reliable?

What you will do, is stop doing your parrot dance after my posts with your typical tripe. Next time you attempt to derail a thread you will get reported. Your act got old over a year ago.





[edit on 9/26/0808 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Most reports disgree with NIST (yet again) on the amount of fuel burned off in the intail explosion.

911research.wtc7.net...

Given that the vast majority of the volatile jet fuel was consumed inside five minutes of each crash, the fires subsequently dwindled, limited to the fuels of conventional office fires.

jnocook.net...

I believe the intensity of the fire (as it relates to building collapse) was comparable to a heavy ordinary combustible fire after the explosion dissipated much of the jet fuel.

You still have not explained how jet fuel made it to the one elavator shaft that goes to the sub basment level 6. Also how much fuel it would take to get there.



[edit on 26-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1



You do realize your "reports" are just articles, and only the opinion of the writers themselves. They are not official reports by any means....

Why not call them articles, instead of reports? That is what they are, correct? It is after all the truth....and you were looking for the truth. Admit they are just articles/opinions of the writers.

Originally posted by gavron
.and you were looking for the truth. Admit they are just articles/opinions of the writers.

Why are you so afraid of anything that debates what you think happened?

The truth is the truth no matter if it is a report or an article. Please be adult enough to admit to the truth when it is posted.



[edit on 26-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


No, the fact that you are trying to pawn off articles, or essays as official reports, that is what is truly sad. It is bad enough that CT'ers like yourself have to "quote mine" reports to try and fit their theories.....but to blatently call an article/essay a "report"...thats just lying.


[edit on 26-9-2008 by gavron]

[edit on 26-9-2008 by gavron]

Originally posted by gavron
..but to blatently call an article/essay a "report"...thats just lying.

Tell you what. I will admit they are articles if you will admit they are true.

We will see who is being dishonest.





[edit on 26-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Most reports disgree with NIST (yet again) on the amount of fuel burned off in the intail explosion.

Given that the vast majority of the volatile jet fuel was consumed inside five minutes of each crash, the fires subsequently dwindled, limited to the fuels of conventional office fires.

Seems if you had read the NIST article I posted, your source somewhat agrees with the NIST report:

The jet fuel, which ignited the fires, was mostly consumed within the
first few minutes after impact. The fires that burned for almost the
entire time that the buildings remained standing were due mainly to
burning building contents and, to a lesser extent, aircraft contents, not
jet fuel.

You still have not explained how jet fuel made it to the one elavator shaft that goes to the sub basment level 6. Also how much fuel it would take to get there.

It made it down several elevator shafts. If you actually bothered to read my posts you would see this.