Muslim extremists conspiring to overthrow Great Britain

reply to post by Ownification


Hey! You are the one who called me a Zionist. You're the one who brought up the Palestinians. You're the one who brought up refugees. You're the one who punched this off-subject, and I responded. I don't listen to folks like you because you always have an agenda. You hate Jews, hate Israel, and I have little patience or use for such blatant, bogus stupidity. But, a lot of civilizations have hated them over the millennia, and as a group, they are the only cultural survivors that remain basically unchanged as a culture with their same identity. I don't see any Babylonians, Parthians, Assyrians, or Beothuk today, but I see a culture that has remained in spite of everything thrown against it. That gets my respect, not that they would count my respect for anything. Resolve. Courage. Discipline.

Everywhere Islam goes, so goes misery. It doesn't matter if you're the host country trying to be an open society, once the Muslims get their feet in the door, they incrementally begin demanding you change your rules, your customs, and your laws, one incremental step at a time. They won't change, and demand that you accommodate them. Before you know it, just as a camel gets his nose under the tent, the rest of him is coming in.

But hey, as bad as the Islamic movement is in Britain, it's only going to get worse. I like what Australia told Muslims. You follow our laws, our rules, and you owe allegiance to Australia, or you get out.

Common sense approach if I ever heard of one. And if anyone wants to quote percentages of Muslims as a percentage of a populations within a culture such as Britain, that means nothing. Time and again, very small percentages of determined people will eventually wear down a larger, less dedicated, less determined society.

Consider communism in Russia! Look what a handful of fanatics did.

I love my British cousins, and I really hope for the best. But it's going to take some very firm measures to change things. But to change things, you have to open your eyes and look around.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Ownification

 

Hey! You are the one who called me a Zionist. You're the one who brought up the Palestinians. You're the one who brought up refugees. You're the one who punched this off-subject, and I responded. I don't listen to folks like you because you always have an agenda. You hate Jews, hate Israel, and I have little patience or use for such blatant, bogus stupidity. But, a lot of civilizations have hated them over the millennia, and as a group, they are the only cultural survivors that remain basically unchanged as a culture with their same identity. I don't see any Babylonians, Parthians, Assyrians, or Beothuk today, but I see a culture that has remained in spite of everything thrown against it. That gets my respect, not that they would count my respect for anything. Resolve. Courage. Discipline.

Everywhere Islam goes, so goes misery. It doesn't matter if you're the host country trying to be an open society, once the Muslims get their feet in the door, they incrementally begin demanding you change your rules, your customs, and your laws, one incremental step at a time. They won't change, and demand that you accommodate them. Before you know it, just as a camel gets his nose under the tent, the rest of him is coming in.

But hey, as bad as the Islamic movement is in Britain, it's only going to get worse. I like what Australia told Muslims. You follow our laws, our rules, and you owe allegiance to Australia, or you get out.

Common sense approach if I ever heard of one. And if anyone wants to quote percentages of Muslims as a percentage of a populations within a culture such as Britain, that means nothing. Time and again, very small percentages of determined people will eventually wear down a larger, less dedicated, less determined society.

Consider communism in Russia! Look what a handful of fanatics did.

I love my British cousins, and I really hope for the best. But it's going to take some very firm measures to change things. But to change things, you have to open your eyes and look around.

What a great way of not answering the question, don't bother replying to my posts if you are going to force yourself to stay ignorant. I won't bother you anymore

reply to post by Ownification


Geez, which question? The one about the US being invaded by Latinos? Would I fight them? What a foolish, impossible question. But I suppose that deserves an answer. Probably not. I'd probably drop my rifle and double over in laughter. Besides, their column could only do about five miles per hour with only one set of jumper cables.

You say by Muslims strapping on an explosive vest that this shows their courage and desperation.

Wrong.

When one of these fools blows himself up, westerners tend to widen their eye and state, "how can you fight that?" And so it is mistakenly perceived that these men and women find extraordinary strength to sacrifice their lives to take the lives of "unbelievers." Those who would sacrifice themselves do so not for a cause or belief, but they do so because of their utter despair and self-determination of worthlessness with no hope of changing their fortunes. These martyrs have no hope. No hope opens the door to any hope. And that is the clincher for Islam. Islam itself creates misery, and the way Islam provides for paradise is through suicide. Cool, huh?

Know this. Zealots of any cause, despite a select, few, outwardly impressive strengths - suffer many more glaringly weaknesses that in turn can be used to their defeat. Zealots, morally bankrupt and miserable, with no self-value, spouting unattainable ideals, are the most vulnerable to public, crushing defeats.

Zealots gain all their strength from the promise of hope. And once their confident hope is conclusively and forever crushed, they fall. Zealots do not exist without exaggerated hope. New converts cannot be approached honestly, and without exaggerated hope. One will note that the leaders of the zealots continue to live and direct activity. If a true zealot themselves, then why do they not strap on a vest and show the others how its done? That's because they really don't believe half the crap they preach. They rely on the misery and ignorance of their followers.

Zealots of any organization have specific beliefs and superstitions that of necessity are founded in their hope.

They are easy to defeat if one can gut it up. Use every belief, every certainty, every divinition, and every superstition that supports the zealot against himself. When at every turn, his elements, understandings, trust, and conditions of hope are crushed, his desperation will cloud his judgment, and your fanatical enemy can more easily be steered toward your carefully prepared destruction.

Restrain may be preferable in social circles that require elegance, and of course within upper social structures. But restraint, elegance, and finesse are not characteristics desired or even tolerated in a fight to the death.

To eliminate an enemy, you first eliminate his hope. You not only kill him in this life, you kill him and all his hope and anticipations in the afterlife.

Courage and desperation?

No way. Stupidity repeated between generations.

reply to post by dooper

Geez, which question? The one about the US being invaded by Latinos? Would I fight them? What a foolish, impossible question. But I suppose that deserves an answer. Probably not. I'd probably drop my rifle and double over in laughter. Besides, their column could only do about five miles per hour with only one set of jumper cables.

Yet again you avoide the question, please answer the questions seriousely.

If your answer was seriouse than let's continue, would you fight if your families life was in danger?? Your land? You being left in a refugy camp where you have to fight your way to get a bag of rice? What can Ownification do to make you fight back? Are you by any chance a Bhudist?

See what I'm doing here is giving you an idiot proof argument. Please be patiant and answer my questions, it is for your own good.

I'm not concerned with all the other paragraphs you wrote, we can talk about that later. First I want to finish my idiot proof argument relating the Zionests, I don't want you to wander towards the light

reply to post by Ownification


Currently, we are giving the Latinos all the lowest paying jobs. They are being provided the opportunity that they couldn't get in their own countries. I say we should invade Mexico and work our way down. That would be the best response. Then all of Latin America could be as rich as the U.S.. You should hope that the Israelis do the same in the middle east. What are they going to do in a few decades when all the oil runs out?

By the way, the Latinos adapt to U.S. culture, and by the third generation, they can't speak Spanish any better than the rest of us. Then they travel to Latin America as rich gringos.

reply to post by Ownification


It wouldn't be my land if I sold it, or if we, and my land was lost in the process of a war.

This isn't all that hard. When I sell my land, it is no longer mine. And no, when it is no longer mine, I cannot in good conscious fight for it. A deal is a deal.

Right now Russia has islands that before the war belonged to the Japanese. Guess what? It's now Russian land. Is it right? Right and wrong have nothing to do with it. That's my point. You don't pick a fight, get your ass whipped, and expect to walk away with everything you started with.

You'll note that Jordan doesn't have the West Bank anymore. Why? They wanted war with Israel, they got their war, and Israel kicked their butts, and took the land. Whose land is it? Israels. Who's like to have it? Get in line. But whose land is it now? Israels.

And no, I'm not so sorry and lazy to sit on my dusty butt in a refugee camp feeling sorry for myself. I'd go somewhere that I could make a living and feed my family.

(I know.) Once a Muslim has ever occupied a piece of land, it's always Muslim land. That's an archaic Muslim concept that seems to be the root of this problem. Even when Muslims sold their land to Israeli's, they still feel they have a right to it? Get serious! That isn't right.

This goes back to Muhammed who loved plunder, and the entire religion he created as he went along seeking booty mirrored his behavior at the time. Nothing wrong with plunder I suppose, but you have to be smart enough to know when your ass is beaten.

I say it again. Even the Egyptians refused the return of the Gaza Strip. Too much trouble. Populated by some of the dumbest, most contentious people on earth. Israel doesn't want it, Egypt doesn't want it, and really, no one in the whole world wants it.

If a man is ignorant, I can teach him. If a man is unskilled, I can show him. But stupidity? You just can't fix stupidity. And after a while, you won't even waste your time. Wall it off and forget it.

UnderCover Mosque: The Return

A year-and-a-half after the critically-acclaimed film Undercover Mosque was first screened, Dispatches goes undercover again to see whether extremist beliefs continue to be promoted in certain key British Muslim institutions. The film also investigates the role of the Saudi Arabian religious establishment in spreading a hard-line, fundamentalist Islamic ideology in the UK - the very ideology the Government claims to be tackling.

A female reporter attends prayer meetings at an important British mosque which claims to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. She secretly films shocking sermons given to the women-only congregation in which female preachers recite extremist and intolerant beliefs. As hundreds of women and some children come to pray, a preacher calls for adulterers, homosexuals, women who act like men and Muslim converts to other faiths to be killed, saying: "Kill him, kill him. You have to kill him, you understand. This is Islam."

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And for the ignorant here who was defending muslims from Morocco

moroccans are a pest in my land, they are only 1-2% of the population but are so criminal that they make more crime then the Dutch people.

says enough don't you think, i do not know anyone in Rotterdam my city who has not had trouble with them.

It's fifty bloody fifty.

Muslims are both completely "made examples" of out here, innocent or not just because of their religion.

Example? Since 9/11, almost every time a Muslim guy seems to look suspicious he's taken down or at least watched or people cross to the other side of the street.

But in the same note; Muslims 'feelings' are defended left, right and center and we, as British non-muslims are made to feel bad and are getting treated like 2nd class citizens in some aspects.

I mean let's not forget about how 2yrs ago now (maybe three?) Christmas decorations which have gone up on Oxford Street, London EVERY SINGLE YEAR - were officially banned from then-on in "Through fear of offending the 'British-Muslim' population" That right there is a perfect example of point number 2 not to mention the fact they're trying hard to impliment their law (Can't spell it, I apologise) in Britain.

Edited to add: I am NOT Condoning ANYTHING Negative towards Muslim people, British or otherwise let's not misconstrue my comments... I have many, many Muslim friends. - Most of this is our own Governments doing, their own paranoia and fear-mongering.

But we also have the radical and radicalized. - Those comments made by The Sun, a scummy tabloid or not ARE true. - I had a friend who used to attend the mosque in Finchley until that one guy (The one they call 'Hook') Began is hatred speeches and then he left, although several of his friends continued to attend. - And the guy reported in The Sun is no different.

That kind of "preaching" goes on, it happens and unless it's reported by a "non-tabloid" paper, people seem to refuse its existence.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by A55A551N]

This story below shows how much trouble our own system of tollerance is used against its own nation and people. Yes Sharia law is not at it's fullest but the rest of the religion is eating away at basic ways of life in Europe. This latest story below shows what unnecessary problems in cultural clashes it has in every day life, hundreds of cases like this happens in the West, where democracy is caged and brought to trial against it self through Islam. The racist label and emotional blackmail tag is on and they know our laws better then we do.

So he has been here two years, can not work around alcohol and probably bacan if he is that senstive towrds his religion and yet went to work for Tesco, is that a set up plan or what. Seems like it was made to bring democracy down to its knees.

Showing tollerance towards Islam is the same as agreeing with Middle Easten laws, you may aswell agree with the rest of its laws which show more intollerance against the rest of the worlds diversity than every other system that people live in or have lived in since lets say 14,000 years ago.

A Muslim said he is suing Tesco for religious discrimination because he was asked to handle crates of alcohol in a warehouse.

Mohammed Ahmed, 32, was employed at the supermarket giant's Lichfield depot in September last year for a job that included transporting various goods on fork-lift trucks.

The Saudi Arabia national told a tribunal he had not been told when he started the job that he would be handling alcoholic drinks - a task he said was against his Islamic beliefs.

The situation came to a head in the run-up to Christmas last year, when more alcohol was ferried to the warehouse in preparation for the festive season.

Mr Ahmed, who moved to Derby in 2006, complained to Tesco in February, but claims he was treated unfairly as a result. After eight months working for the company, he left in protest.

Text

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Ownification

 

It wouldn't be my land if I sold it, or if we, and my land was lost in the process of a war.

Yes true, but we are not talking about that. What we are talking about is buying a land and turning it in to a country with their own seperate law. That's exactly why I wrote in my previouse post about a situation where Latinos create a seperate state within America and kick all the non-Latinos out therefore you and your family will be living in Canadian refugee camps, trying to survive another day.

This isn't all that hard. When I sell my land, it is no longer mine. And no, when it is no longer mine, I cannot in good conscious fight for it. A deal is a deal.

AAA what if they forcefully kick you out?? Not if it is sold??

Right now Russia has islands that before the war belonged to the Japanese. Guess what? It's now Russian land. Is it right? Right and wrong have nothing to do with it. That's my point. You don't pick a fight, get your ass whipped, and expect to walk away with everything you started with.

Ummm those islands didn't start the fight they were invaded the same way Iraq was invaded by America. Should they fight?? You are completly confused, I don't think your brain can process information properly.

You'll note that Jordan doesn't have the West Bank anymore. Why? They wanted war with Israel, they got their war, and Israel kicked their butts, and took the land. Whose land is it? Israels. Who's like to have it? Get in line. But whose land is it now? Israels.

And when Iran and Russia invade Israel, whose land will it be then??

And no, I'm not so sorry and lazy to sit on my dusty butt in a refugee camp feeling sorry for myself. I'd go somewhere that I could make a living and feed my family.

I guess you have never experienced being a refugee, do you realy think it is that easy????

(I know.) Once a Muslim has ever occupied a piece of land, it's always Muslim land. That's an archaic Muslim concept that seems to be the root of this problem. Even when Muslims sold their land to Israeli's, they still feel they have a right to it? Get serious! That isn't right.

Choose your words carefully, India was occupied by Muslims once, no one is claiming it as Muslim land. Don't assume your knowledge. Once again only some land was sold to the refugee Jews who migrated from Europe where they were getting exterminated.

This goes back to Muhammed who loved plunder, and the entire religion he created as he went along seeking booty mirrored his behavior at the time. Nothing wrong with plunder I suppose, but you have to be smart enough to know when your ass is beaten.

No comment

I say it again. Even the Egyptians refused the return of the Gaza Strip. Too much trouble. Populated by some of the dumbest, most contentious people on earth. Israel doesn't want it, Egypt doesn't want it, and really, no one in the whole world wants it.

That is a very offencive comment even comming from a critic, this shows your true colors unfortunately. It shows your deep hate for any individual who calls himself/herself a Muslim. Reminds me of the Nazi era.

If a man is ignorant, I can teach him. If a man is unskilled, I can show him. But stupidity? You just can't fix stupidity. And after a while, you won't even waste your time. Wall it off and forget it.

Define stupidity

reply to post by A55A551N

Are you saying that Oxford St Decorations have been 'banned' for fear of upsetting Muslims?

reply to post by Ownification

For God's sake, go back through the past few hundred years and study this area that is now considered Israel. This so-called Palestine was a territory without a country. Both Jews and Arabs lived there. In it's unimproved state, there was very little land that could be cultivated, and that was purchased by Jews who were apparently a bit more motivated and industrious than the surrounding herders.

Later comes the actual establishment of Israel. Immediately, Israel was invaded by multiple Arab nations, and thousands of your Arab "Palestinians" fled the country. Those Palestinians who stayed, became citizens. Those who fled were not allowed back. No one with any sense at all wants a fifth column living in your own camp.

Consider these refugees of 1948. This is 2009. They've been "refugees" for sixty years! Two generations! Now you're going to tell me that within sixty years that you are still a refugee? NO! You are one sorry, lazy, hating, trouble-making turd to sit on your ass and bitch for two generations, almost three.

These are professional bums. That's all they ever want to be, and that's all they ever will be.

Their brother Arab nations will not let them enter their countries, as they are so damned sorry and such trouble makers. Pretty bad when your own family can't stand you!

So if you don't learn anything but this - because this is the base of your entire mistaken premise - they weren't kicked out! They left! So that their brother Arabs could slaughter the Jews!

How dense can one be?

I do not care if you find my comments offensive. My comments are accurate. What I find offensive is your limited knowledge, limited ability to reason, and your erroneous conclusions. You like to attack me because you are limited in your assessments.

This ignorant approach to this topic is exactly why I consider Palestinians so stupid. All they know is that they don't know, they aren't happy, and so we have to blame someone else. Let's be like the rest of the world and blame the Jews.

Define stupid? Look to yourself for the answer.

reply to post by winterass


Winterass good post!
The Undercover Mosque series deserves a Pulitzer.
What some of these people are saying in these documentaries is truly sociopathic,disgusting and inexcusable.
These hate fuelled idiots should be extradited immediatley or prosecuted for seditious treason (or at least have their £30,000 a year in benefit handouts consfiscated).
Cheers Karl

One observation I'd like to make is that the people on this forum who energetically defend Islam, are the same people who are out there constantly bashing Christianity. I'm constantly seeing huge threads about one church or another and their views on gays and evolution. There is often many people calling them stupid and sometimes almost subhuman. They will often make arguments like, "Hey Christians have extremists too", but what examples do they have? One guy, timothy McVeigh, thats it. Yet, they act like the comparison is valid.

I dont understand it. How can you so viamently defend Islam, than turn around and Bash Christians as dangerous and stupid?

This is coming from someone who doesn't beleive in organized religion.

reply to post by winterass


Thanks for those links winterass, some really shocking stuff there.

I consider myself moderate but really this situation must be nipped in the bud now. Deportation is the only way to resolve this, what possible reason is there for these people to live here if they want to impose sharia law?

Sorry but if you dont want to live in our culture and are hostile to it then dont live in our country. I think thats reasonable.

I have to admit I do hate writing about this subject, but sometimes you have to do it. I don't care about races or hate other races, it’s not about that, it’s about the threat to our freedoms here in the West. If Europe becomes too soft, and so does the rest of the West, we will be living in a more intolerant world and someone has to stick up for it, as many here do. I don't like speaking about the problems of Islam, it’s not a race issue it’s an ideology and a clash of opposites.
But the more we mix the more issues will be brought up.

On one hand you have tourists in Egypt, the tourist industry make money by having nightclubs and the women and men being open clothed and probably drink. Then you have the pure form of Muslims who go by their prophet’s actions and Bomb the nightclubs and kill tourists and anything Western.

Then you have the Muslim’s that come to Britain and the West but are rejected by society or seen as different and maybe racism towards them.

But some come over to change the system of Democracy and Islamising it and form Strongholds of victory over infidel non-Muslims and have a hate and second class opinion of the West and every other religion behind their closed doors.

That can change too with minority Muslims who change to Christianity and feel liberated from that system and choose no religions.

But that has a down side with Honour killings and persecution within their community and rejections.

Okay America and Britain at War and Iraq was not the best move to fight terrorism.
We are changing a country and forcing democracy on an Islamic county. But we are freeing people from the horrors and intolerant persecutions.

Opposite to this Somalia and other African countries that have been swept by an Islamic movement that kills the non-Muslims and anything in its path. Are these counties free now? Are people being persecuted for not fitting into the faith-political system?

In the end you can only decide who is right and wrong as your opinion but as a whole, the West needs to support Democracy to stabilise the world. They say Democratic countries have fewer wars, and WW2 was the turning point.


[edit on 6-10-2008 by The time lord]

reply to post by dooper


I don't think I have time to give you a history lesson so I'll leave you with this:

Palestine is a small and very poor country, about the size of your state of Vermont. Its Arab population is only about 1,200,000. Already we have had forced on us, against our will, some 600,000 Zionist Jews. We are threatened with many hundreds of thousands more.

Our position is so simple and natural that we are amazed it should even be questioned. It is exactly the same position you in America take in regard to the unhappy European Jews. You are sorry for them, but you do not want them in your country.

We do not want them in ours, either. Not because they are Jews, but because they are foreigners. We would not want hundreds of thousands of foreigners in our country, be they Englishmen or Norwegians or Brazilians or whatever.

Think for a moment: In the last 25 years we have had one third of our entire population forced upon us. In America that would be the equivalent of 45,000,000 complete strangers admitted to your country, over your violent protest, since 1921. How would you have reacted to that?

I recommend doing research relating to the end of Ottoman empire and the Arab backing of the west. Find a book or maybe encyclopedia up to you, I'm out.

You can't blame them for wanting to leave their own stinking country.