The Evidence For Jesus' Existence is Overwhelming

i'm not trying to prove Jesus, im just answering your qeuestion.

*see previous page for answer*

[edit on 13-9-2008 by Boywonder13]

reply to post by Bombeni


I refer you to: The Greatest Story Ever Told

Originally posted by Tentickles
reply to post by Bombeni

 

I refer you to: The Greatest Story Ever Told

Zeitgeist!

I refer YOU too:

Atheist Refuting Acharya S (Source for several zeitgeist claims)

The Secular Web Library says this about "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors" which started the claims as seen in Zeitgeist

Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

Source


and Zeitgeist Challenge





[edit on 13-9-2008 by Boywonder13]

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
reply to post by realshanti

 

What "Christianity" am I referring to?


Don't give me that...In Christianity, they teach that you should not question the teachings, or their God. I'm not talking about what is, or what is not in the Bible. I'm talking about what is taught to you as part of the religion. Yes, people question it...but it is taught that you should not, especially if it's something said by God directly in the Bible.

I Thessalonians 5: 20-22 (I included the verses before and after verse 21 for context)

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22 Avoid every kind of evil.

Every Christian I know interpets that to mean "Test everything, including the Bible".

Originally posted by Boywonder13
That kinda sounds like Jesus, doesnt it?

exactly. kinda. But Isaiah's words are not clear - and this particular bit is highly debated. It does not say how to identify him, only that a servant will pay for all sins. Jews believe that this is talking about Israel (since he mentions Israel being the servant). Muslims deny that it is talking about Jesus, though they believe that it may be about the messiah. Both religions say that there are things in Isaiah that may be connected to Jesus, but there are more important things that show that it could not have been about him. It also may have been a self fulfilling prophecy for those that followed him. It is the Christians who believe this is a prophecy about Jesus and add the missing pieces.

thank you for posting a source other than the NT and other hearsay btw. I wasn't sure if others were up to it.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
The trolls on this sight aregetting out of control....

Yes, YOU trolls are getting out of control, the op posted the info on his opening post, read it and debate it or SHUT UP.
All you did on here was make outlandish claims and REFUSED to back them up, the op asked several times for you to back up your claims, you denied every time, so the burden of proof is upon YOU now, so show the sources of how you think Yeshua was a pharoh and the other bs you spewed out of your lying mouth with your forked toungue.
I'd love to see your proof, and plese, for all that is sacred, don't show that piece of bs known as Ziet Ghiest, it's been debunked over and over, I can debunk it pretty easily seeing how when I was younger I actually studied egyptology and the mythology of the egyptians.

No doubt people will attack me personally as they have done with the op, deflect and such.

Quit trolling, stick to the issues.

My proof, I've personally met Yeshua, the Messiah, I know Him personally, all the proof I need.

Also, Yeshua appears through out the whole entire Bible, not just the NT, even in Genisis He's there.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by justxxme

Originally posted by Boywonder13
That kinda sounds like Jesus, doesnt it?

exactly. kinda. But Isaiah's words are not clear - and this particular bit is highly debated. It does not say how to identify him, only that a servant will pay for all sins. Jews believe that this is talking about Israel (since he mentions Israel being the servant). Muslims deny that it is talking about Jesus, though they believe that it may be about the messiah. Both religions say that there are things in Isaiah that may be connected to Jesus, but there are more important things that show that it could not have been about him. It also may have been a self fulfilling prophecy for those that followed him. It is the Christians who believe this is a prophecy about Jesus and add the missing pieces.

thank you for posting a source other than the NT and other hearsay btw. I wasn't sure if others were up to it.

haha no prob.

And it would have to be Christians who see that its Jesus. i guess how you look at a particular piece of evidence is determined by your world view.

Say, Isiah had a perfect description of Jesus. Skeptics would complain that Jesus life was just said to follow Isiah. It seems like theres no pleasing a skeptic.

reply to post by Boywonder13


This is true... with all of the "evidence" that has been posted here people are only going to see what they want to see, based on their views coming into the conversation. And, adding to the thought that Isaiah had given a perfect description, I wonder if there would still be a Jewish and Muslim faith, or if one or both would have become denominations of the Christian faith... but that's completely off topic. =/

Originally posted by justxxme
reply to post by Boywonder13

 

This is true...

with all of the "evidence" that has been posted here people are only going to see what they want to see, based on their views coming into the conversation. And, adding to the thought that Isaiah had given a perfect description, I wonder if there would still be a Jewish and Muslim faith, or if one or both would have become denominations of the Christian faith... but that's completely off topic. =/

Just in a general way, Whenever people bring up Isaiah for evidence for one thing or another, and I read the whole context, I find a certain conditionality to it. I mean, if it says one thing, it turns around and says something that is the opposite of the first thing. It is kind of like a multiple choice. If you are to accept my advice, this is what you will get or if you refuse my advice then here is this bad thing you will get. So, there is an unsatisfying nature to his writings. This leaves a mystery factor to his predictions. One person could see the good promises being fulfilled and another person could see the more unpleasant aspects coming true. This leaves us in an imperfect world without an apparent resolution to the paradoxical nature of it. The ultimate outcome ends up being a personal experience and not something to be seen, necessarily, in the world around us.

Originally posted by mhc_70

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
reply to post by realshanti

 

What "Christianity" am I referring to?


Don't give me that...In Christianity, they teach that you should not question the teachings, or their God. I'm not talking about what is, or what is not in the Bible. I'm talking about what is taught to you as part of the religion. Yes, people question it...but it is taught that you should not, especially if it's something said by God directly in the Bible.

I Thessalonians 5: 20-22 (I included the verses before and after verse 21 for context)

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22 Avoid every kind of evil.

Every Christian I know interpets that to mean "Test everything, including the Bible".

What is it that you don't want me to give you?? My understanding? - I understand that religious piety is NOT THE SAME THING AS THE WORD OF GOD....that is why the Bible is where I go to "test" the things that "christians" tell me....

And by the way Christ gave us "the power to become Sons of God" - not the power to become "christians" ...."christians" is a cleaned up translation of a nasty epithet used to refer to Yeshuah's followers...so yes I am a stickler when it comes to the deceptions and subtle wiles of the adversary...and where do you think the adversary goes EVERY TIME to peddle his garbage?? Yes he goes right into the so called sanctuary of your local fellowship hall - that is why there are so many "denominations" when the bible explicitlyexhorts us to "be of one mind in Christ"...Brother, you have allowed yourself to be deceived.

I quit listening to "christians" and started listening to the Word as the Holy Spirit reveals it to me personally....Why??? because "christians" didn't die for me, conquer death and unloose the chains of the gates of hell - Martin Luther, Popes, John Wesley, Kenyon, Graham and the rest - they did not die for me - Yeshuah did...do you hear what I'm saying to you???

I don't give a rats a$$ what the religious cretins have to say about ANYTHING pertaining to Life in Christ because I have met so few who actually have faith in Yeshuah, the Word made flesh...most believers put more faith in the local weather report than the words of their Savior...

I know only too well what you are experiencing in regards to this issue of what "religion" teaches - luke warm tepid BS and crap I wouldn't feed my cat...you have been betrayed but not by God, Brother...Not by God...

"The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the volatile take it by force"

The kingdom of Heaven is within US and in order to reap the seed that is sowed there we have to take it from the adversary by force - the battle ground is in our minds and hearts...

With regards to being able to "prove" Jesus. I was talking to a friend of mine and he, who seems knowledgeable about this particular topic, said that practically speaking it is irrelevent whether or not the Jesus of the Bible existed.

He continued:

1. Jesus is the King and knowing him directly in a world full of his enemies is a major international security risk, both for Jesus and the person who knows him. Not to mention a risk to his wife, the mother of all living, his two daughters and his infant son.

2. Even if Jesus revealed himself and claimed to be Jesus, the sissy Shah of Persia, his bi-sexual lover the Khan and the whore Ishtar, his arch enemies, would be around to refute his claims and a neverending and pointless debate would ensue. Sort of like the one you people are having on this thread.

3. The only way to settle this issue is through War in all its forms.

Then my friend kept talking. He said that the War never stops and happens to be in a fully blown state as I write this response. He explained to me that in the two camps, otherwise known as the camps of the true believers, no amount of argument can ever change anyone's mind and holy books are for the younglings; whether you believe it or not ultimately you will find that what you believe is without importance.

I asked, so does that mean the bad guys could win? He replied, No, they fought with the King, but never had a chance. He's already smashed all their armies, took their homes and their jobs and the money they got left is running out fast. He said that on October 13th, the last of the bad guys hijacked authority will expire and anyone who is stupid enough not to leave will be dealt with at that time.

That's why he said having these discussions is irrelevent because he is out there and coming fast and noone can stop it. He finished off by saying that the King lives in Illinois and sits around and reads conspiracy websites all day because he's so bored.

It doesn't matter whether Jesus actually existed or what he did or what his spiritual capacity was. When he died, he became useless to anyone living here in this creations. A spiritual teacher is effective because their spirit has reaches a certain higher plane of the creation and they are accessible on this plan as a conduit to reach there. They can assist someone to reach that higher level only during their life. They can not help someone to reach a plane higher than they have reached.

That said, nothing I've ever heard about indicates to me that Jesus was a particularly high class spiritual being. There have, however, been many, many higher spirits visiting here in the past. Shams Tabriz, Rumi, Kabir, Hafez, Nanak, Mira Bhai and many more. Their status was far superior. But, like Jesus or Krishna or Buddha, when they died their spirit became ineffective in this plane.

That said, the Ambassador of the Supreme Being are now continuously on this earth and a pathway to the very top of the creation exists and will continue to exist throughout the 250,000+ years of the creations of matter. If your condition is such that you are sincerely inclined towards the true Supreme Being in any way, the path will be opened to you.

Originally posted by Boywonder13
and Paul enviously admits that these men had known Christ in his flesh. " - Will Durant, Humanist, Historian, Philosopher, Non-Christian.

No he doesn't.
Please give a quote where he does that.

Iasion

Originally posted by Boywonder13

Originally posted by Briles
I still cant comprehend why people consider the bible as evidence for jesus existence

"But above all, if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence..."- Atheist historian, Sir Micheal Grant in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels.

I can't comprehend why faithful believers think a quote of faithful belief from a faithful believer is evidence !?


Iasion

Originally posted by Boywonder13
It's funny cuz all the bios we have of Alexander The Great come from people writings centuries later.

This stupid nonsense is all over the 'net lately.

But apologists ignore the facts -

We DO HAVE hard, contemporary, histoircal and archeological evidence for Alexander, such as :
* the Esagila diary
* coins showing his likeness
* cities founded in his name.

Expect the preachers to keep ignoring this fact.


Iasion

Originally posted by realshanti

Originally posted by mhc_70

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
reply to post by realshanti

 

What "Christianity" am I referring to?


Don't give me that...In Christianity, they teach that you should not question the teachings, or their God. I'm not talking about what is, or what is not in the Bible. I'm talking about what is taught to you as part of the religion. Yes, people question it...but it is taught that you should not, especially if it's something said by God directly in the Bible.

I Thessalonians 5: 20-22 (I included the verses before and after verse 21 for context)

20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
22 Avoid every kind of evil.

Every Christian I know interpets that to mean "Test everything, including the Bible".

What is it that you don't want me to give you?? My understanding? - I understand that religious piety is NOT THE SAME THING AS THE WORD OF GOD....that is why the Bible is where I go to "test" the things that "christians" tell me....

And by the way Christ gave us "the power to become Sons of God" - not the power to become "christians" ...."christians" is a cleaned up translation of a nasty epithet used to refer to Yeshuah's followers...so yes I am a stickler when it comes to the deceptions and subtle wiles of the adversary...and where do you think the adversary goes EVERY TIME to peddle his garbage?? Yes he goes right into the so called sanctuary of your local fellowship hall - that is why there are so many "denominations" when the bible explicitlyexhorts us to "be of one mind in Christ"...Brother, you have allowed yourself to be deceived.

I quit listening to "christians" and started listening to the Word as the Holy Spirit reveals it to me personally....Why??? because "christians" didn't die for me, conquer death and unloose the chains of the gates of hell - Martin Luther, Popes, John Wesley, Kenyon, Graham and the rest - they did not die for me - Yeshuah did...do you hear what I'm saying to you???

I don't give a rats a$$ what the religious cretins have to say about ANYTHING pertaining to Life in Christ because I have met so few who actually have faith in Yeshuah, the Word made flesh...most believers put more faith in the local weather report than the words of their Savior...

I know only too well what you are experiencing in regards to this issue of what "religion" teaches - luke warm tepid BS and crap I wouldn't feed my cat...you have been betrayed but not by God, Brother...Not by God...

"The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the volatile take it by force"

The kingdom of Heaven is within US and in order to reap the seed that is sowed there we have to take it from the adversary by force - the battle ground is in our minds and hearts...

I was providing a verse backing up your response to sdrawkcabII regarding questioning everything in religion.


Christian is a very broad term and many bad people have done many bad things in the name of Christianity, there has also been alot of good. Just because somebody calls themself Christian I would caution from automatically assuming they are being decieved.

From reading your posts, I bet you would be surprised at the similiarities in our religious beliefs.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe



He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so He did not open His mouth. (Isaiah 53:7)
And Pilate was questioning Him again, saying, "Do You make no answer? See how many charges they bring against You!" But Jesus made no further answer; so that Pilate was amazed. (Mark 15:4-5)
For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay. (Psalms 16:10)

O LORD, Thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol; Thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. (Psalms 30:3)

But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol; for He will receive me. Selah. (Psalms 49:15)

I shall not die, but live, And tell of the works of the LORD. (Psalms 118:17)

First, let's talk about your statement that Jesus was the only 'real person' in the history of religion. Buddha was a real person, Confucius was a real person, Mohamed was a real person, Abraham (from whom Christianity, Islam and Judaism are all founded upon) was a real person. Now as for the only REAL evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really existed. THEY FOUND HIS TOMB AND HE WAS STILL IN IT! He is now buried in an unmarked grave with the rest of his family, including his wife, Mara of Magdela (Mary Magdeline) and his son. This contradicts the New Testament because this was compiled over two hundred years after his death. The "Gospels" were written by men who never even met the man! Not exactly reliable sources! Also the notion that Christianity helped liberate the place of women in society is absurd! The exact opposite is true. The church has done everything it could to keep women 'in thier place'! He was a great man, and a wonderful teacher, but not the Son of God. Considering the millions of people that were murdered in his name over the last two millenia, I'm sure he would have stuck with carpentry if he had known what was to come! I suggest you read The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins and that you see The Lost Tomb of Jesus, a documentary produced by James Cameron. I was raised in the church and have done vast research on this subject. You are just quoting the usual Church Doctrine without really researching the subject. The Source, or God as you call it, is much more complex than anything Christianity, in all it's incarnations, believes it to be! Christianity has a history of death, lies and deception that makes it impossible to believe in! At least for anyone with a rational, intelligent, free thinking mind! God gave you the ability to question everything for a reason. Use it!

Church,Religion,Faith, Belief, the Bible, (or any other written Religious script), IS NOT criteria for the truth !!!!

[THEY FOUND HIS TOMB AND HE WAS STILL IN IT! He is now buried in an unmarked grave with the rest of his family, including his wife, Mara of Magdela (Mary Magdeline) and his son. ]

OK lets see your proof of this ?



The Jesus bloodline hypothesis from the book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail is not contained in any of the "Priory of Sion documents" and was dismissed as fiction by Pierre Plantard in 1982 on a French radio interview, as well as by Philippe de Cherisey in a magazine article.[32][33] Plantard only claimed that the Merovingians were descended from the Tribe of Benjamin,[34] which contradicts the hypothesis of a Jesus bloodline as the missing link between the Merovingian line and the Davidic line from the Tribe of Judah. The notion of a direct bloodline from Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and its supposed relationship to the Merovingians (as well as their alleged modern descendants: House of Habsburg, Grand Ducal Family of Luxembourg, Clan Sinclair, House of Stuart, House of Cavendish, and other noble families), is strongly dismissed as pseudohistorical by a qualified majority of Christian and secular historians such as Darrell Bock and Bart Ehrman,[35][36] as have journalists and investigators such as Jean-Luc Chaumeil, who has an extensive archive on this subject matter.
en.wikipedia.org...


This is British Israelism ...It is also Replacement theology ..It is also some of the Dominionists beliefs....also ties in with the Illuminati ...
So you still say its the truth ?