The Big NASA-Military Cover-up On Gravity And Atmosphere On The Moon!

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Firstly, how can you call the Saturn V a "fire belching pile of old Space Junk"? It's the biggest, most powerful rocket ever built. It's an amazing piece of machinery.

Secondly, you referred to the Lunar Module as being "over engineered". How can you say something like that when you clearly know very little about LM and its design. You don't even know where they kept the Rover. So could you please explain why you think it's over engineered?

As for the Rover, it was stored in the decent module (the bottom half). Not up top with the astronauts. To me, your disbelief in the Apollo missions seems to be due to the fact that you know very little about them. Now I'm more then happy to discuss and debate the subject, but I think you should also be reading up on this stuff youreslf. Just a few minutes of googling would have answered your questions about where the Rover was stored, for example.

And no one has given the reason for the change in plans by NASA, they were telling people on the earth they would have moon bases by the 21st Century! LOL..

The reason is pretty simple. A lack of money. NASA had a large budget durring the 60's, but it was cut down a lot near the end of the Apollo missions (due to a lack of poltical and public interest). Which is why the last three Apollo missions were cancelled and no Lunar bases built.

But again, I suggest that you do some research about the missions yourself. I know that there's a ton of information to cover, but the more you learn about it, the less unbelievable it should become.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


I just mentioned rilles as a linear feature that is known to exist on the moon. These lines are quite a bit smaller scale what are usually called rilles.

I think the image is the outer rim of Crater Moltke which is a pretty steep slope. I don't know the cause of the lines but I'm confident that a vehicle of some kind can be ruled out.

reply to post by Phage


Yes I would tend to agree with you in this case, but who knows how these markings or whatever thy are got there.

They may even be intended as a joke ??? Alien Joke??? LOL...

No seriously though....

I also have a lump in my throat if I make the claim aliens don't exist!

Intuition or plain common-sense, tells me they exist, but I find it near impossible to convince my self, that aliens don't exist, it just doesn't ring true if you know what I mean.

The universe is not just for humankind and many believe the universe has been around a hell of a long time and our species is fairly recent in terms of the age of the Universe if the self acclaimed experts think.

But what those lines are we just don't have enough information yet.

But thanks for you help, I'll keep an open mind without being too gullible I hope....LOL...

Originally posted by jra
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

Firstly, how can you call the Saturn V a "fire belching pile of old Space Junk"? It's the biggest, most powerful rocket ever built. It's an amazing piece of machinery.

Secondly, you referred to the Lunar Module as being "over engineered". How can you say something like that when you clearly know very little about LM and its design. You don't even know where they kept the Rover. So could you please explain why you think it's over engineered?

As for the Rover, it was stored in the decent module (the bottom half). Not up top with the astronauts. To me, your disbelief in the Apollo missions seems to be due to the fact that you know very little about them. Now I'm more then happy to discuss and debate the subject, but I think you should also be reading up on this stuff youreslf. Just a few minutes of googling would have answered your questions about where the Rover was stored, for example.

And no one has given the reason for the change in plans by NASA, they were telling people on the earth they would have moon bases by the 21st Century! LOL..

The reason is pretty simple. A lack of money. NASA had a large budget durring the 60's, but it was cut down a lot near the end of the Apollo missions (due to a lack of poltical and public interest). Which is why the last three Apollo missions were cancelled and no Lunar bases built.

But again, I suggest that you do some research about the missions yourself. I know that there's a ton of information to cover, but the more you learn about it, the less unbelievable it should become.

You are so clever you give me the answers but I would also like the proof with your answers please.

I guess being a manufacturer of Electric Quad Bikes and Small electric cars, No I guess I don't know much do I....

How many Electric Quad bikes did you manufacture this week????

Look don't be so naive humankind is at the bottom of the intelligence scale in his universe he can't even cure the common cold and is still fighting amongst his own kind.

No Poverty in the World? No illness? No Hospitals? No Time Travel.. never been to another Galaxy?.... I'm being sarcastic and a little cynical in my old age.... But come on, you can see we have a great understanding of technology don't we, or do we?????

Open your Eyes and Look at the human race and be ashamed of your Ignorance!

Get real, and wake up, Humankind are Primates in a Zoo called Earth and there keeper is Ignorance.

Hell no wonder the Alien community doesn't want to know you....

However I will look into it more when I find the time, as it is Not really a priority at this stage!!!!!

[edit on 8-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Look don't be so naive humankind is at the bottom of the intelligence scale in his universe he can't even cure the common cold and is still fighting amongst his own kind.

How can you make that statement? Have you anything real to back it up or that is just what you feel?

While some people act like we are the best thing ever to happened to the Universe, I also don't understand the apparent need that some people have to feel that we are the worst thing that ever happened to the Universe.

If we have not real knowledge of other life outside the Earth, how can we compare humans to something we do not know?

Comparing us with other known life forms is one thing, comparing us with imaginary life forms is a completely different thing.

PS: I think we are going more and more off-topic, but I think if we keep this discussion polite enough the mods will let us go on.

Edited because I had some words in the wrong order.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by ArMaP]

reply to post by ArMaP


Look don't get upset I am throwing of at us all in a humorous way OK???

Its just that humankind know so little about themselves or anything else.

When we find answers to all our problems on Earth and fix everything only then we can say we understand correctly by the proof of perfecting everything.

So don't take to heart my light heartedness OK

Life is Not all serious, unless you are suffering from the stress of it all???

[edit on 8-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
You are so clever you give me the answers but I would also like the proof with your answers please.

If you're talking about my answers referring to the Rover and where it was kept. Just look at the video Phage posted previously. All the documentation about the Lunar Module and Lunar Rover is freely availible to everyone, just take a look.

I guess being a manufacturer of Electric Quad Bikes and Small electric cars, No I guess I don't know much do I....

How many Electric Quad bikes did you manufacture this week????

What does any of this (and the rest of your post) have to do with the Apollo missions?

However I will look into it more when I find the time, as it is Not really a priority at this stage!!!!!

Fair enough. I'll give you a bit of a head start. Here is a link to the Lunar Rover Operations Handbook You can view it in one 38mb .PDF file or in eight seperate parts. The handbook covers things like deployment, assembly and operating the Rover.

reply to post by jra


Gee Don't be too serious I was just joking....

Obviously Manufacturing Electric Quad Bikes and small Cars has nothing to do with Moon buggies but the Moon buggy is powered by 4 Electric Hub Motors so you see we do know a little weeny bit about Vehicle design....

Well we think so any way....

I have spent about 40 years in the Automotive Industry and for many years designed and manufactured Automotive Control Computer right from the early days of computers back in the early 80's.

So I was just letting you know I am not Quite as Ignorant as you may presume.

I am also involved with designing Geometric Processing Systems at present, just a little outside the Square.

Any way it doesn't relay matter what you think of my back ground but sometimes it may help where i am coming from with my questions...

But don't take my Jovial nature too seriously....

As I have said you have to laugh at our species at times and see the funny side.

But I will do as you suggest and will do a little searching pehaps in the weekend, but have to go now catch you later.

This is such an overworn topic: How about we look at a quote from someone who's been to the Moon?

Ingo Swann on Moon Water
"As to the lunar atmosphere, the American Geophysical Union recently indicated that although "conventional wisdom says the Moon is devoid of atmosphere, and in layman's terms this may be close enough to the truth, the space just above the lunar surface is not a total vacuum." (See: AGU Release No.98-26, 17 Aug 98.)
"As to the water, it is said to be in the form of ice, mostly at the poles and buried about half a meter beneath the lunar surface.

"The estimates are impressive regarding how much of it there is: some six billion metric tons. This is said to be enough to sustain upwards of 100,000 lunar colonists for a century and also provide a fuel source of oxygen and hydrogen for Moonbases and space travel.

"While this is exciting news, if the evidence is taken into account for earlier-known lunar clouds and mists clearly visible in some official released photos of the 1960s, then one cannot think that ALL of the lunar water is only in the form of sub-surface ice."
_________________________________________________________________
Ingo Swann on Moon Atmosphere
"There is, of course, no doubt that the lunar atmosphere is not like the Earth's. But even if more tenuous and not as thick, the lunar atmosphere now OFFICIALLY exists, as does the lunar water.

"Thus,the UNOFFICIAL sources of the past that have referred to the existence of lunar water and atmosphere have turned out not only to be correct, but ironically vindicate their authors.

"Official NASA photos that clearly show lunar clouds and mists have been available all along - dating especially from the days of the Lunar Orbiters and manned Apollo craft."
(Ingo Swann, "Penetration: The Question of Extraterrestrial and Human Telepathy", 1998)

Now, it is well known that Ingo Swann is one of the most authenticated psychics in modern times: he spent years working on govt. operated projects (check out his credits using google). In his book, "PENETRATION," he travels to the Moon. The used 1998 pb book sells for $300.00+ for a dogeared copy, $1400.00-$1600.00 for a 1st edition, and it's a small 145 pg. self-published paperback.

And before you dismiss Ingo, kindly familiarize yourself with his body of work and verifiable credits. All solid stuff.

Aliens? Cripes, I've met them. The most notable one was a Serpent, a terrestrial Ruler, a living naga. So, humanity can take a backseat insofar as being/possessing all knowledge. Hardly.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by SS,Naga]

reply to post by SS,Naga


Good find! But this is a trifle too brief for comfort! Can you provide the link to the 'ex' quotes?

Thanks!

Sorry....

Wrote an article, but decided to withdraw it.

Perhaps I may represent is at a later stage...

[edit on 9-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by mikesingh


Uhm, would love to, but it's from the actual book. I did a huge thread elsewhere covering all this, which John Lear took part in (he's an Ingo fan, also). Also, my strong recommendation to those who really wonder, get a copy of Ingo's book, "Penetration." JL had a copy, and I got one to increase my understanding beyond Nasa misinformation (two sets of misinformation does not a riddle solve!).

Seeing all this all over again is strange! The old 1/6th or 2/3rd Moon gravity stuff is a bit much; hearsay at best. Some of the original post in this thread refering to magazine articles (Newsweek, I think) were gone over by physicists and determined inaccurate. If any here would like the link providing the arguement regarding such, rather than just listening to misinformation, I would be happy to provide.

The mundane & the fanatastic actually have a middle point.

The Matrix Traveler: hope you repost that 'article.'

reply to post by mikesingh

This seems to be a larger excerpt. It contains some "interesting" things.
Source

An unmistakable Mackerel type cloud bank can easy be identified just off the crater Vitello (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. MR 168).
A very large cloud bank hangs over the rim of a crater in Mare Moscovience on the Moon’s backside (NASA Lunar Orbiter V photo, No. HR 1033).

Can't find a copy of V-168-M but that sounds like a description of the typical "watermarks" seen on a lot of the images.
I don't see a cloudbank in V-103-h3.

Two large cloud banks are seen hugging the edge of crater Lobachavsky (NASA Apollo 16 photo, No. 16-758). But most remarkable and quite clear in this photo is a large, undeniably round object poised near the top of the crater wall, and casting a dark shadow down-slope. This is not a dome that might be a natural formation. It is a round object, or structure, circular in all dimensions. It reminds one of a golf ball sitting neatly on a tee.

No such image ID. Maybe someone can figure out what he's talking about.

NASA Apollo 11 photo, No. 11-37-5438 - clearly showing a luminous cylindrical-shaped object in flight above the lunar surface and exhibiting an high-altitude contrail.

Here's the image:www.hq.nasa.gov...

NASA Apollo 16 photo. No. 16-19238 - clearly showing a rather enormous, luminous cigar-shaped or cylindrical object casting its shadow on the lunar surface.

www.lpi.usra.edu...


[edit on 12/9/2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Regarding the Apollo 16 image, AS16-120-19238, this one:



It shows the EVA floodlight. It has been mistaken for a UFO in several Apollo images:


Go to this site to learn more:
www.nasa.gov...



[edit on 9/12/08 by ziggystar60]

reply to post by ziggystar60


Thanks, I knew it was part of the LEM but I didn't know which part.

My point was that Ingo Swan didn't know it was part of the LEM and seems to have difficulty understanding other types of photographic flaws.

Originally posted by Phage

 

This seems to be a larger excerpt. It contains some "interesting" things.
Source

Two large cloud banks are seen hugging the edge of crater Lobachavsky (NASA Apollo 16 photo, No. 16-758). But most remarkable and quite clear in this photo is a large, undeniably round object poised near the top of the crater wall, and casting a dark shadow down-slope. This is not a dome that might be a natural formation. It is a round object, or structure, circular in all dimensions. It reminds one of a golf ball sitting neatly on a tee.

No such image ID. Maybe someone can figure out what he's talking about.

I think I have found the image, the correct ID is AS16-121-19407. Interesting color in this photo, by the way...


www.lpi.usra.edu...

The object casting the shadow is also discussed at these sites:
www.anomalies.net...
gic.alien.de...



[edit on 9/12/08 by ziggystar60]

reply to post by ziggystar60


I see ArMap came up with a hi-rez version:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't see any cloud banks though.

reply to post by Phage


I should have known that our excellent member ArMaP already had posted the image somewhere. Next time I will just U2U him instead of doing the tiresome search myself!


And I agree with you about the "clouds" , I don't see any either.

reply to post by jra


I have read enough of the Moon buggy manual and I am shocked, by this over engineered Monstrosity.

What the Hell was going on in their little brains when they made this thing????.

The whole design is so ridiculous I can only laugh at it, It borders on insanity!

You have got to be Joking?????

If you are going into a hostile environment "you keep it simple stupid" as the saying goes in engineering.

The size of this monster, !2 Feet 2 inches Long, ( 3 M 700 mm) That's Longer than your 5 person family car, and 6' wide ( 1M 820 mm )on wheel Centres!!!

This is Like a pick up truck", for crying out Loud.

As for the 4 Wheel steer???

What were they thinking???

Totally unnecessary!

Our 5 person family electric car is only 10' ( 3M ) Long.

Some are even Shorter!

Why use 4 Pot brake callipers, they are only required for high speed!

Do they think they are into F1 racing or something.

I mean they aren't doing even 30 Km/h

One of their comments Quote:-

The Tire inner frame prevents excessive deflection of the outer wire mesh frame under high impact load conditions.

Come on you have just told me the weight is much less on the moon.
So isn't inertia is much lower??? I'm no expert on the moon though.

It sure want to be.... LOL.

So where do they get this high impact condition from???

I know, It is in the case of some large Meteor coming down and hitting a tire..... LOL...

Get real....

Look you can manufacture a whole family Electric car and market it making a profit for about US $ 5,000.00.... and this baby will reach about 140 Km/h and carry 5 people. I bet this moon whatever thingy you like to call it cost millions of US Taxpayer $$$$'s.

Hell If I was in charge I would close this section down that came up with this pile of trouble going nowhere

I have never seen such bad engineering before, as this Moon Contraption.

It even makes me feel ashamed to be human to be represented by this nightmare!!!

I understand the whole design and what worries me, is how could anyone with a brain produce this, especially for such a serious expedition as going to the moon...

If we put out such a design, from my business, I would be totally ashamed and a few heads would role, to say the very least.

If that is what NASA produces, man I can't have any faith at all in any of their work, if this moon contraption thingy is anything to go by....

I find this information on this moon buggy to be even insulting to our intelligence, to say the least.

The best place for it, is in a local Zoo parked under a Banana plant so when monkeys are playing on it, bananas are within reach....

There is No way in hell, I would ever market such Junk...

If you want something reliable, "You Keep It Simple Stupid". There aren't any Local Labs you can take it to, for repairs on the Moon....

Weight and size is a priority when leaving the Earth (on Lift off).

I have better things to do with my time, than waist my time, looking at this sort of rubbish...

All I can do is laugh.....

Your other Quote;

The reason is pretty simple. A lack of money. NASA had a large budget durring the 60's, but it was cut down a lot near the end of the Apollo missions (due to a lack of poltical and public interest). Which is why the last three Apollo missions were cancelled and no Lunar bases built.

There was enormous political and public interest at that time it was the cold war that had their priority and other research into paranormal science....
Remote viewing for an example....

A bit safer than trying to blast your way into space.

Look the Alien community doesn't want your garbage laying around the universe.

They would prefer to educate Earthlings who are able to accept themselves and the universal community in Technology instead of being Rubbish produces polluting everything they see.

Just look at all your nuclear junk you have tossed out into orbit and is coming down again to remind you of what you have proposed to do both to your world and now intend to do to any other world you come in contact with.

No wonder the Universal Community don't want you on the Moon....

And as for Money, Earth is the Only place in your whole universe you will find this oppression, you call money!!!

[edit on 9-12-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


As someone who understands about these things, could you please be more specific about the bad design decisions made by makers of the Moon buggies?

Thanks.