Live coverage of LHC switch on

If this is posted elsewhere I apologise, there are a fair few LHC/CERN threads at the moment. This is for the more armchair physicists amongst us.

www.bbc.co.uk...

The schedule for the days events, with some live coverage.

Interesting stuff, I wonder what will happen...

Originally posted by Sendran
This is for the more armchair physicists amongst us.

I have asked this in 2 other threads without reply. How can the search for the higgs bozon justify a six billion dollar expense? That sure is a lot of money...

I'll give you answer. £4.4 billion is not a lot of money.

BBC.com also had an excellent article of this with awesome animations. Continues to explain the key components as well on the animation.

Originally posted by Sendran
I'll give you answer. £4.4 billion is not a lot of money.

Really? Then you wouldn't mind just giving me a Billion or so!

And the question remains unanswered. Figuring this thread was for "armchair physicists" I thought I'd get an answer. Perhaps I need to find a thread for "lawnchair physicists" to get my answer.

How is it unanswered? You asked how it could justify a 6 billion dollar expense. It's not that much money especially split between the component nations. There is no need to justify an acceptable amount of money.


[edit on 7-9-2008 by Sendran]

This is good i can watch it, means i have to wake up early though but i can manage that..... maybe

Originally posted by TheRooster

I have asked this in 2 other threads without reply. How can the search for the higgs bozon justify a six billion dollar expense? That sure is a lot of money...

Because on a macroscale, ultimately money is symbolic. Symbolic of power, power in the form of societal control. If this discovery can give them new innovative ways to control the World, then this is actually an investment.

Aww... I can not wait until Wednesday to see what this baby has got as well as finally getting to stop seeing all the new LHC end of the world threads i mean come on really? hehe Hopefully this baby performs to current scientific expectations as I feel this will be a great step for science.

reply to post by TheRooster

Not finding the Higgs boson emerging from collisions at energies made possible by the LHC will call into question the Standard Model of particle physics. Finding it will complete the Standard Model. For science, the stakes riding on this alone are enormous.

Many scientists are also pinning their hopes on finding some of the particles theoretically predicted to exist if the universe is 'supersymmetric'. This won't prove anything directly, but it will affect certain key theories on the edge of physics. These are the various families of string theory, quantum gravity theories and so on. Depending on the results we get from the LHC, some of these theories will be reinforced while others will be called into question or falsified.

Now string theory and quantum gravity are pretty arcane stuff. You're right to ask why we should be spending billions to substantiate or refute them.

Here's why. These theories represent pretty much the outer limits of what we think the world must be like. If we want to know any more about what it really is like than we do now, we have to find some way of falsifying or substantiating some of these theories. We do that by conducting experiments and seeing how closely the results match what the theories predict.

We can test a lot of new physics using cosmological data. But often we need to look at things more closely than that, under controlled conditions. The things we need to look at are fantastically tiny and zip about at very high energies, which makes them elusive. We need a very, very powerful kind of microscope to observe them. That microscope is the Large Hadron Collider.

We need the LHC to help us decide between theories that try to explain what the world we live in is really like; to help us decide which of these theories are false and which might be true; to teach us what the world is really made of, and why things happen the way they do.

Personally, I find it impossible to put a price on such knowledge. In a post on another thread I joked that I didn't care about another member's work and family as much as I did about finding the Higgs boson. I'd hate to have to make the choice in real life, but I wasn't lying, either. What can be more important to us, as a species, than finding out the truth about the world we live in? What higher purpose can there possibly be for humankind?

reply to post by Astyanax



Thank you for that explanation as I didn't know a lot about what they were using this for well I could have done a little more research but your post helped me understand enough to know what to look for now. A star for you

Thanks for the post. Obviously an interest in the science behind the LHC and it's experiments. A good read.

Does anyone know the exact time they are going to flip the switch? I looked at their website and I could not find a time.

Thanks,
M

reply to post by masawa


"The switch-on is due to take place at 0830BST."

Edit: just to make up for the missing line

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Thill]

reply to post by Sendran



i disagree. not to mention the starving around the world there are billions in poverty and low incomes.

i cant even afford to break wind, i dont have a car and i dont have a TV, i dont smoke or drink and im skint let alone someone in real dire straights

4.4 billion is a stupid big toy and thats not including the running costs and the leccy bill, estimated at $30 million per year at todays prices, will be sky high, is this not part of a huge carbon footprint we keep hearing about?????????

cheers

David

I think some data will be produced and analyzed. That won't be much of a show. The public release of the results should be a much better show.

The first black hole won't be generated till around October 21st anyways..

It's just being turned on tomorrow

Cheers for the post.

I don't think £4.4 is a huge amount of money in the scale of international projects, look at things like The Olympics, World Cup Football, and any war (reports of £2000 per second for the War in Iraq). Annual running costs of £30 million are a drop in the ocean.

The statement that it is a big toy is a bit silly, I refer you to Astyanax' post a little up the way for the reasons behind it. I wouldn't play with it!

I see your point re the starving and impoverished. £4.4 billion may not be much money but it could provide an awful lot of solutions. The returns from the discoveries made at CERN will recoup some money surely.

I think the LHC is a worthwhile investment, that will greatly help in the long term. The more we understand, the more we can achieve.

As for the carbon footprint, I don't think it would be high in comparison to it's size, but I could be wrong.

What we also have to remember is that the CERN installation is over 20 years old, it's not a new construction that we've just knocked up at an astronomical cost, it has been built over time, improved on and adapted to new experiments and fields of research.


[edit on 9-9-2008 by Sendran]

Originally posted by Astyanax
Personally, I find it impossible to put a price on such knowledge. In a post on another thread I joked that I didn't care about another member's work and family as much as I did about finding the Higgs boson. I'd hate to have to make the choice in real life, but I wasn't lying, either. What can be more important to us, as a species, than finding out the truth about the world we live in? What higher purpose can there possibly be for humankind?

In other words, a cancer-ridden person will die peacefully knowing the esoteric truth sought by a vastly negligible percentage of human population.

What are you trying to sell here?

Only a mental monster would misallocate such a huge sum of money for building and operating the collider at the expense of research in genetics and related fields.

Nice how the Beeb are calling it Big Bang Day.

I really do hope that it isn't...