Key eye witness of 9-11 WTC Commits "suicide"

Get real people. There were NO EXPLOSIONS. It was the elevator that crashed down when cables got cut off by the airplane.

And this dude's emotional/financial/drug/drinking problems is entirely different story. He may had it all along for whatever I know, but was sober at this particular moment.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by syeager9]

Originally posted by justamomma
Of course, based on your faulty logic, he was actually murdered.

Thanks for covering one out of three, momma. And then declaring my logic "faulty."

I would admit that, having in the past been suicidal, that ONE issue alone would not set off alarms. But even when I was suicidal, my manner of speaking/writing (expressing myself) did not deteriorate radically, nor would I have claimed I had a problem like homelessness when that was a non-issue.

It's one thing to believe one is emotionally alone, and quite another to decide to kill oneself over the prospect of homelessness when a home has been offered.

A very drastic measure to take with a solution at hand.

So you go ahead and cover all three plausibly, and then I will accept that you have a clue.

Originally posted by syeager9
I don't see any importance of his statement on TV. The "explosion" in the basement could be a falling elevator or its counterweight that will make a loud sound and somebody who never heard the real explosion can say it's explosion. And why would you set up some small charges long before the intended "demolition"? Also initial fireball can propagate all the way down the elevator shaft and burn people. Explosion would tear them to pieces. The whole story is inconsistent with explosion. However he was smart enough to run far far away from the buildings. If he ever been in the building and didn't make the whole story up. So I doubt anyone (if conspiracy theory is correct) would want to kill him. He's not a good witness.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by syeager9]

Except there are lots of corroborative witnesses. Many firemen (who, one would think, would know) described series of explosions. You are seriously reaching here with the elevator thing, especially given the fact that elevators of that kind are virtually always constructed to break if they lose cable tension.

So I am going to doubt the elevator theory completely.

Originally posted by syeager9
Get real people. There were NO EXPLOSIONS. It was the elevator that crashed down when cables got cut off by the airplane.

OK, you've made the claim. Which elevator was it that crashed? They were all numbered, so it shouldn't be hard for you to tell us and also provide evidence that the cables were cut by the alleged plane.

I'm surprised he didn't have two shots to his head... in case the first one didn't work.

reply to post by syeager9


No explosions? Elevator cables cut?
Can you please show me where I can find this information?

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


I am impressed; it is nice to know you have some compassion.
I forget sometimes, when we are taking stabs at each other backs with our dull butter knives, that I drop in the thread.
While we are all turning psycho and chopping each other’s post to pieces
And venting our venom over everything and everybody
It is still wonderful to know we really do care about people.

Oh by the way You are still WRONG! about 911.

that's a shame, we may of lost a very compelling story/testimony there too, after all he was in the basements and his story corroborated with Rodriquez pretty good. I was always hoping someone would catch up with him and do a longer interview of his 9/11 experience. I have seen his testimony so many times in so many different 9/11 documentaries. I always thought he looked like a tough type who wouldn't flinch at much but that whole experience had clearly shocked him.

Those elevators had emergency systems that released a braking apparatus if the cable tension went below a certain level, ie:if the cable and emergency cables snapped.
So they would only fall 1-2 floors before they smack into the brakes that flip outward to stop it.
Maybe this guy just didn't want to live anymore, sometimes the body outlives the mind.

reply to post by Amaterasu



Thanks for asking me to be your voice of reason. Although I would suggest that you take the gag off the one in your head as you will find life much more interesting when you can actually think for yourself... eh, but that's just me anyway. Anyway, I am honored

The other two things you listed were

a) "please address the radical difference between the verbal skill of Kenny Johannemann, the intelligence he displayed and the childlike suicide note, if you would please."

b) "and while you're at it, explain why someone who had an offer of residence would write: "The reason I killed myself was 'cause I was getting evicted and can't handle homelessness."

To address point 'a' first, it is not uncommon for people to hide their truest most raw (aka childlike) feelings from the world. I doubt if he was feeling such despair to the point he was going to take his life that he was completely in his right mind anyway. Point A proves nothing. Here, why don't you start at the following link, RESEARCH FOR YOURSELF even beyond the link and you will see that point A is no reason for jumping to conclusions.

psychological trauma

Since I am almost sure you will ignore what I am giving you because it doesn't fit the view you so desperately clinge to, let me draw your attention specifically to the following (from the link):

Some traumatized people may feel permanently damaged when trauma symptoms don't go away and they don't believe their situation will improve. This can lead to feelings of despair, loss of self-esteem, and frequently depression. If important aspects of the person's self and world understanding have been violated, the person may call their own identity into question.

Now I highly encourage you to do some studying yourself before throwing out this non proof out as proof again.


And on to your point B:

errrr, that one would pretty much be covered in my first post as well and again in the above.

YOu have no proof of anything, only assumptions that are drawn from a distorted view... those who starred you are just as distorted in their views. Jumping to conclusions based on faulty assumptions really shouldn't be quite the habit as it APPEARS (ha! looky that! a non conclusive term) is the case with you.


You have not been through what this man went through, therefore you are looking at the "evidence" in the light of a different mind frame. Your dilusions are self induced whereas his dilusions were brought on by an extremely traumatic event.



[edit on 7-9-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Thanks for asking me to be your voice of reason. Although I would suggest that you take the gag off the one in your head as you will find life much more interesting when you can actually think for yourself... eh, but that's just me anyway.

I love the way you keep suggesting that I don't think for myself. Cute, that.

I will contend that this is a very handy reason for the guy to "kill himself," since neither of us has all the detail, and you can keep saying "He wasn't in his right mind," and I can say, "I have been to that brink and know that my ways of expressing myself did not degrade in usage and construction (though maybe content), so this makes no sense."

Whatever. I believe it was murder. You don't. [shrug]

On with the day, then

IMO if we ever do have another investigation into 911, there will not be many people left to testify. Regardless if its, suicide, lung problems from the air at the site, or serious mental problems from the trauma. Who will really be left to talk that won't have to endure psych evaluations and criticism that they are not a "stable" witness? Even the firemen that were there would probably be considered "to unstable" to testify. Its really not right. Witnesses are getting weeded out, and it isn't necessarily always due to fishy circumstances. But, like I said, this one is a little odd to me. Thats why I posted it here, to see what you guys thought and get different opinions.

So interesting, how nations like ours works, in "dictatorships" people gets assassinated, but in "Democracies" people commits suicides.

It sounds cleaner and personal.

I am still trying to get over the DC Madam convenient and timely suicided.

Originally posted by marg6043
So interesting, how nations like ours works, in "dictatorships" people gets assassinated, but in "Democracies" people commits suicides.

It sounds cleaner and personal.

I am still trying to get over the DC Madam convenient and timely suicided.

The DC Madam's suicide was crazy. She said that she wouldn't do that, so to me it was a cover up. I will never know for sure because I did not see it with my own eyes. That was way to weird for my taste though.

I believe this is one of those cases where everyone can have an opinion on an internet forum, but without seeing any real evidence or the examination report it is impossible to tell either way.

But, what we can do here is recognize the man as a patriot and someone who was passionate about his beliefs (whether corrrect or incorrect). He felt he was doing the right thing about talking out. That deserves something in and of itself. His family deserves our sympathy and hopefully they will find comfort and peace quickly.

Allthough what i'll say might sound childish i can't help myself from not posting it.

In the letter he said "The reason i killed myself...","killed" is the word that captured my attention.

I don't know how much possible and common is for someone to write that in his suicide note but it kinda makes me wonder.



Personally,i wont say that he was murdered or not,i have no idea.I just had to post this.

I seem to recall an interview with a janitor, who was worried about some odd behaviour going on, in the weeks leading up to the attack on WTC.

I can't remember the network bringing the interview, nor the name of the janitor. However he noticed several peculiar people, working with heavy duty tools, such as drills and generators. The people didn't look like regular "workers", but had a more professional look.
The security was very poor, and as we now know, the dogs which were trained to smell out any kind of explosive, had been pulled out of WTC weeks before.
Another thing that seemed out'a place, was the fact that these people were working during night time and week-ends. The janitor also didn't understand, that a layer of fine powder covered everything close to airwents. This powder were located on several floors down. When bringing this to the attention of his superior, he was told just to mind his own business and do his job. I'm wondering if this is the same guy who desided to check out.... or did he get "help".??

Has anyone on ATS seen this interview.

Love & Peace to all....

[edit on 09-04-2008 by Live2Love2Live]

Originally posted by syeager9
I don't see any importance of his statement on TV. The "explosion" in the basement could be a falling elevator or its counterweight that will make a loud sound and somebody who never heard the real explosion can say it's explosion. And why would you set up some small charges long before the intended "demolition"? Also initial fireball can propagate all the way down the elevator shaft and burn people. Explosion would tear them to pieces. The whole story is inconsistent with explosion. However he was smart enough to run far far away from the buildings. If he ever been in the building and didn't make the whole story up. So I doubt anyone (if conspiracy theory is correct) would want to kill him. He's not a good witness.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by syeager9]

if that was the case how did the guy lose his skin...thats a temperature exceeding a regular fire.

And if he was stuck for cash he could of sold his gun.

reply to post by gmac1000

Baloney. A cigarette lighter will take your skin off. A 400 degree stove will take your skin off. Burning jet fuel(hotter) will easily take your skin off.

As an after thought; For some reason when I first saw this guy on Loose Change me and my roommates all immediately thought he was lying. One of my roommates is a trained interrogator and he's the one who voiced "he lying" first. Something about the way he strings his story along made us think he was not telling the truth.
Also, how does someone who was just in a fiery explosion and had to carry someone with "his skin all hanging off" to an ambulance not get one smudge of dirt or one single drop of blood on him?

reply to post by Tiloke


Oh wow! very keen observation. Will have to re-watch that video now in light of your observations. Thumbs up for being on guard and aware!!

(not saying you are right or wrong, but you are obviously thinking and that is always a great thing that seems to be lacking these days)