Roswell: Final Declassification (History Channel)

Originally posted by Facefirst
Mr. Mulder,

I see your point, but the "Flying Saucers are Real" documentary was just a little tiny blip on the cultural radar. In the Air Forces eyes, the Roswell drama was long dead. There was not any real significant public demand for an explanation at the time of the Marcel interview. And if there is not enough public demand to warrant investigation, then what do you think the Aif Force is going to do?

The reason the Air Force eventually put out "Case Closed" was because they were beseiged with calls and info requests on a daily basis. That did not happen over night. It took years for the Marcel story to get around and for the public demand to reach such a crescendo that the Air Force had no choice but to react to it.



[Edited on 19-3-2004 by Facefirst]

Facefirst,

I just saw the special on the History Channel and I'm with you. I'm interested in both sides of the story. Whether it was a top secret project or an alien space craft the government should reveal all of what it knows and I don't think they have done that yet. Why? Who knows. I do find the case of non existent Nurse who Glenn Dennis claims to have run into at the base intriguing. I wonder what the story is behind that. He claims he forgot her real name.

The ONE thing that points against this Mogul thing is, if the crashed object was a secret experiment, then why weren't the military on the crash site as soon as it crashed?

Go ahead, scratch your head.

Supposedly the balloon went off course. (there were storms in the area at the time) Search technology at the time was very limited by today's standards.

Perhaps the military was waiting for someone to report in the balloon? Why make a big deal and hope that whoever finds the balloon does not pick up on the balloon's real purpose? That seems logical to me.

If there was no real ET crash and the saucer report was sent out by mistake, then maybe they were worried about the unwanted publicity which could result with the public catching on which would lead to the Soviets finding out?

It was common practice in those days for civilians to bring in weather balloons for small cash rewards......

That being said, it does not make sense why a saucer report would have been issued at all. There is an interesting book called "Roswell, what they don't want you to know." IIRC, the book claims that Marcel mistook and exagerated what he saw before the material was properly examined. I dunno, something still does not add up.

My friend, you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!The Roswell crash was extraterrestrial.The first guy on the site was Major Jesse Marcel of military intelligence.Military intelligence!!He was no joe schmo from off the street.And he was no unexperienced soldier.He was a MAJOR of MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.If the governments intelligence was that pathetic, then the U.S. would have been conquered by other countries years ago.This man came on record and stated that the crash was alien!!And spent the rest of his life trying to prove it.Think about this, how has technology advanced so much in the last 50 years?We have had a gradual increase of technologyuntil 47, but with in the last 50 years, around the time of the Roswell crash, we have jumped hundreds of years with laser, fiber optics and computers. And let's not start patting ourselves on the back as we always do when we want to kiss someones a$$ for all the things that, we humans have accomplished.We want, psychologically, to say that all the things of the world are just great human innovations!!We just love to pat ourselves on the back!!Lets not forget all the bad things we do either.General Ramey's Letter exposed showed that it was not a weather balloon, and that bodies were recovered.Go on google search and look up who Philip Corso is, and when you do that, get back at me!!

[Edited on 20-3-2004 by jhova]

Jhova,

First off, RELAX!

and I believe that nickname belongs to someone else.

Secondly, I can assure I am quite well read with regards to the Roswell incident. Including Corso's book.(I am getting back to you!) As much as I loved Corso's book, nothing he wrote about concerning ET's can be substantiated. Col Corso left alot of questions to be answered after he died.

For further reading, I suggest, "Roswell, What they don't want you to know." It is a good alternative aspect to the Roswell incident. There is a case made in the book that Marcel was "prone to exageration." This is coming from military evaluations! You should not consider "military intelligence" an absolute. As long as something is human, it is fallable. That same military "intelligence" can't find the WMDs in Iraq!

It sounds like you have made up your mind. But no absolute proof has been given. I hope that the Roswell incident happened, but I will not make up my mind until I have proof of either conclusion. A good story is only a good story without proof! Nothing more.

I was simply giving other possible explanations to the Roswell incident.
I suggest you wait before you accuse someone of "having no idea" of what they are talking about.

P.S. That "enlargement" of Ramey's letter from the press conference pictures is one of the most inconclusive and subjective pieces of evidence I have ever seen!






[Edited on 20-3-2004 by Facefirst]

Well I got to watch it and, well, they made alot of good points. Everything they said seemed to make a sense. But like one guy said, "People arent going to believe we dont have aliens or UFOs until we show them, but how do you show someone you DON'T have something?"

o.k.
watched it last night and what a load of crap

it wasnt a weather balloon ...now its the u2 spy plane
we just made up the balloon thing with some tinfoil and balsa to cover up a u2 crash
boy am i stupid for beleiving in ufos.
i guess that settles the question and the aliens ....well they were just some nice dummies we dropped in high altitude tests
how many excuses do they have to make
what about the timing of this
the u2 has been outdated for so long
they could have told that load of crap a long time ago
The worst was that science editor from popular mechanics ....gimmee a break
The only files they released were the ones they want you to waste your time looking through
it doesnt explain anything ive seen i can tell you that

I saw it last night, by accident.

What I cam away with was an overwhelming feeling that there is way more to the story. They kept showing those boxes being rolled back and forth across the room. people lookingat photos and wearing cotton gloves. People flipping through files in boxes.
And not really telling anything new, let alone controversial.

Are the people who produced this show on the side of truth? I did not get that feeling.
I felt more like I had just watched Geraldo doing the Al Capone's tomb program.
Definitely not one of the Hisoty Channel's better shows!

Watcher,

You can call it lame all you want, but there is still no proof of anything.

Now go get me some proof!

[Edited on 20-3-2004 by Facefirst]

i saw this program a while back and all i can think of is that they have had so long to think of this excuse for whay happened and they have had time to produce the materials mentioned, maybe not the same but similar and blag them off to be some weather balloon experiment gone wrong.

just my theory but im quite drink so i maybe wrong

as a fool, i will give my foolish response.

it seems like either, information is going to be released that corroborates the "ufo" theme and is supported by the government and pre packaged and presented in a way that supports it as well; or more plaster will be placed over the "ufo" theme to keep people twaddling in their time idle and in a stupor as to what the elites are really planning to do...

either way it goes im all for a new world order; for the "order" of this world was merely a childs game...


but those are just my foolish thoughts...

Like I said before, we love to kiss our own a$$ as humans beings...yeah, it was a government airplane right?That is total crap, and that is just something people say to help them sleep better at night."There is no evidence for this.." well duh!!These people are not just going to put an alien in your lap and say "here you go, here is some evidence for the existence of e.t's that we are trying to hide!!"If it was a secret government project, there is absolutely no way that people were killed to cover it up, and there would not have been that much secrecy behind it, Say what you want, but there IS NO WAY that that much secrecy would be warranted for a "government project".I'm sorry.My father was in vietnam, and he will tell you about the crappy things the government has down, and the crappy excuses they use.What is even worse, is that the government has been and is doing bogus things,sloppy with covering it up to the point of almost all of the info coming out, but then they say "this is what really happened" and because we want to feel comfortable psychologically, we say okay, that's what happened, even though we know in the back of our minds that they are lying.When, tell me when has our government been nice people?Not since a government has been called a government.It is like the lone gunmen theory.When JFK was killed, they said they caught the "one man" who did it, even though it reaked of a conspiracy.But, we as "Americans" needed to feel comfortable about the situation, so they caught the "one guy" and everyone's like"thank God they caught that one guy, it's over and I can sleep good at night".Does anybody get me?

Oh yeah, I don't care how much of an "imagination" MAJOR Jesse Marcel had, he was a MAJOR in the U.S. army, MILITARY INTELLIGENCE!!Not Joe Schmo of the street!!You know trained for those types of things.Exaggeration has nothing to do with being able to tell the difference between a crashed plane with wings, and a alien space craft with metals never seen on this planet that make a debri field over 3 miles long!!And Philip Corso was a Colonel!!Not a low ranking soldier, say it with me a COLONEL!!(Boy, the government needs to pick better people to head their military...)In his book he has pictures of himself and President Truman togerther.This man has no reason to lie buddy.Like seriously, the technology in the last 50 years, coincides with exactly what he says about back engineering.He was also head of the major parts of the airforce that dealt with the atomic bomb goup in Los Alamos.So it comes down to this,humbling youself to believe that higher powers exist in many different forms that we may never know totally about because its impossible, or we can continue to live a garbage a$$ assembly line a$$ life with no point other than giving the government more money and then retiring at 50.PLEASE, I BEG YOU PEOPLE, WAKE UP!!

Originally posted by jhova
Oh yeah, I don't care how much of an "imagination" MAJOR Jesse Marcel had, he was a MAJOR in the U.S. army, MILITARY INTELLIGENCE!!Not Joe Schmo of the street!!You know trained for those types of things.Exaggeration has nothing to do with being able to tell the difference between a crashed plane with wings, and a alien space craft with metals never seen on this planet that make a debri field over 3 miles long!!And Philip Corso was a Colonel!!Not a low ranking soldier, say it with me a COLONEL!!(Boy, the government needs to pick better people to head their military...)In his book he has pictures of himself and President Truman togerther.This man has no reason to lie buddy.Like seriously, the technology in the last 50 years, coincides with exactly what he says about back engineering.He was also head of the major parts of the airforce that dealt with the atomic bomb goup in Los Alamos.So it comes down to this,humbling youself to believe that higher powers exist in many different forms that we may never know totally about because its impossible, or we can continue to live a garbage a$$ assembly line a$$ life with no point other than giving the government more money and then retiring at 50.PLEASE, I BEG YOU PEOPLE, WAKE UP!!

First off, I never said I don't believe in the possibility of ET life. Never did.
I do think it is very possible. What I am pointing out is that there are alot of inconsistencies in the Roswell story.

As I said, Military Intelligence is not perfect. History has shown that it is just as fallable as anything else. It is human, therefore it is not perfect. As I said ealier, that same intelligence can't find Osama or the WMDs!! I don't appreciate the condescending attitude. You can debate a subject without resorting to be a condescending jerk. I know what a MAJOR is! My brother is a CAPTAIN in the army, currently in Iraq and I have heard some pretty interesting stories from him concerning the dealings of the military. I am sick of people who instantly think "military witness" means unquestionable credibility. As long as you are human, you are questionable. You said "you don't care how much of an imagination Marcel had."
Well you should.

As for Corso, you have put words into my mouth. I never accused him of lying. Perhaps if you had read a few of my other posts concerning his book, you would see that I can't see a reason for him to lie either. The mystery is if he make something up, why would he say something that would blemish all of his past accomplishments? Again, stop assuming things you don't know.

You are showing a severe lack of critical thinking. Deductive reasoning is paramount to investigating or substantiating something, not Inductive reasoning. I hope that there is something going on, but there is not enough proof to be sure.

I hope that Roswell happened, but what I am looking for is proof. There isn't any except for several stories.

Without proof, they are still stories.

Again, relax....

[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Facefirst]

[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Facefirst]

i have been reading the book :The Day After Roswell" by ret. Col Philip Corso - if any of what he says is true - the histeory channel information is garbage! i suggest reading this book.
regards

First off, there are many reasons the recent "admittance" by the Air Force is nothing but total BS.

1. According to their own records, there simply was no Mogul balloon that would have been in the area, on the right day...close, but no cigar.

2. The "dummies" were part of a test done years later, not during the time in question, and also had nothing to do with Mogul.

3. The Air Force has changed their story on this so much, it's unreal.

4. There are dozens of witnesses as to the debris, and this doesn't match what Mogul balloons were made of.

5. Yes, Marcel was a trained intelligence officer. You can argue that he was "prone to exaggeration", but obviously not enough to keep him from being the top intelligence man, on the most important air field (i.e. the only one with an atomic bomber wing) in the US!!! These are credentials you simply cannot tarnish. Anyone with half a brain can easily conclude that such an officer would CERTAINLY know the difference between balsa wood and tin foil, and a saucer craft debris field.

6. Numerous DEATHBED CONFESSIONS, admissable in a court of law, testify to aliens, and the saucer coverup.

7. Official paperwork, connecting the Roswell incident, with the bases, etc. involved in the alien coverup.

8. The fact that anything Mogul related, would NOT have gone to Wright Field, as this was for FOREIGN war materiel to be examined.

9. If it was a Mogul balloon, they wouldn't have needed to rely on a rancher to stumble across it, they would have found it way before Mac.

10. The Army's OWN press officer announced, to the world, that the US was now in possession of a crashed saucer....period.

Gazrok,

Where can I read up on some of those deathbed confessions and Roswell paperwork?

All I am looking for is actual proof.
~Face



[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Facefirst]

Wow!!That was some real punk a$$ sh1t you just pulled.So i am, a jerk because you can't defend your own points, say one thing, and then claim another.Right on man, I'm glad you got that off your little chest!!!

J,

Claim one thing and say another?? Where the hell is that in my posts?? Please point it out for me to see. Enlighten me.

Yes, you were and are acting like a punk.

I am not trying to shoot down Roswell. I am trying to encourage discussion.

You are the one who freaked out when I suggested that maybe Roswell was not entirely true. You took a condescending/childish attitude instead of a debating posture.

As I said before and will say again, I hope something happened at Roswell, but I still stand by my original question. Where is the proof? Cold, factual, hard evidence?

You had better get to bed before your parents catch you up this late.





[Edited on 21-3-2004 by Facefirst]

This will never be decided without bias.... too many individuals have seen the MJ-12 documents, and project Bluebird, and the roswell declassified documents to think one way or the other. I personally think it was ET related, but my roommate does not.. he thinks the MJ-12 documents were forged, and I think they were real, but again He didn't believe me on the new planet for several days either.