Dr.Ron Paul 9/2/08 Rally for the Republic!!!

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Maybe not disappointed but I too wanted to hear what he had to say on how all this was possible without descending into chaos and anarchy. I am not totally knowledgeable of his policies. So here are my questions:

How would he take care of the people who really cannot take care of themselves?

Ill be glad to answer some questions. I will say however that I can only speak for myself for I am not Ron Paul but I do believe in his philosophies. For the most part that is. As far as the people not being able to take care of themselves. First off you would have to understand how I would get income if I was president. I would repeal the 16th Amendment killing the income tax. I would however not get rid of corporate taxes in fact I would raise them just a hair. Also any country that is not giving our products the same chance as we give them over here would get tariffs slapped on their stuff. I would legalize weed and tax the hell out of it. On top of that all the other excise taxes I feel that we would have an income of around 1 to 1.5 trillion. Some of that money would go to help people who truly and I mean truly cannot help themselves.

How would he ensure that healthcare was made available to all without having to mortgage your home when the insurance won't pay for treatment?

These are real problems. caused by corporations taking over what should be held in the public domain like healthcare.

Well with everyone getting to keep ALL of their paycheck it makes paying for healthcare pretty easy doesnt it? As far as corporations I addressed that above. Also subsidize would be out the door. If a company fails big or small they would be allowed to fail. I would not bail out ANY company. The Fed would be gone. In fact that would be one of the first things I would work on. So not only will you keep your money you earn but you wouldnt have to worry about inflation robbing you of your wealth near as much.

Don't get me wrong. I think Ron Paul is important in making people think and is a beacon of light and truth in the farce that politics have become. I am, for the first time excited about politics and am actually believing that change is possible but have my concerns on not seeing a complete picture.

But one thing is for sure. Ron Paul is a true American and he has redressed the balance on what that means. This is something to be proud of, in my view.

It really comes down to the roll of the federal government. In fact I remember arguing with you on the thread about having to bail out NO residents during hurricanes. I feel the federal government should not have to do that. You said otherwise. However Im not saying that states cant work something out like charging a small tax per year to go into a fund. But this is not the job of the federal government. The job is simple. Defend our nation, help keep up our infrastructure, and maintain our liberties. That is it. States can do anything else on a state by state basis. This is how it used to be. This would give people a solid choice about where to live based on that states policies without having to leave America period which is what you have to do now because its no longer these united states its the united states. All under one umbrella.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Well with everyone getting to keep ALL of their paycheck it makes paying for healthcare pretty easy doesnt it?

I'm totally with you on the principals of taxes. However, as intended by our founding fathers, taxes need to be deducted for essentials government and programs to exist such as your state house of representatives and school funding.

State and local taxes are OK by me. It's the Federal Income Tax that is unconstitutional and needs to be abolished. State and Local taxes are a necessity. However, raise them over-excessively and don't bother running for office in the same district.

The abolishment of the Federal Income Tax would create plenty enough expendable income for people to employ their own health care. I think the free market would even drive health care prices down if we were to engage such a system.

This is common-sense thinking. It's a shame most of our Congress hasn't any ... and is so out of touch with the common working men and women of this country. I honestly don't know why people vote for some of these goons. I know half (or most) of the reason is because they are the only people running and have an (R) or (D) next to their name when the average voter walks into a booth. Most people don't have a clue what they stand for or how they'll vote with they're elected.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by tyranny22]

reply to post by mybigunit

Thanks man, for answering those questions. I won't bring up the Gustave argument here as it is off topic but I gather that you didn't get what I was saying in that thread.

However, It would be interesting to see what Ron Paul has to say about that issue. I don't think he would say that the people who live there will have to re-settle, do you? He DID say that as FEMA has already been paid for by all of us, people should get the help if and when needed but that FEMA is ineffective. Which I cannot really argue with.

Also I don't care if it is Federal or Local help, as long as help is extended to those who need it and that it is effective when it does. That is my only concern.

I will certainly read more into Ron Paul's policies because I want the whole picture.

reply to post by tyranny22


Umm I said that Im for getting rid of the 16th Amendment. I just said Im not getting rid of corporate taxes thats all. Individual taxes we DO NOT NEED and it IS unconstitutional. With that being said we still need a powerful military for defense not offense and a good solid infrastructure and this is why you have to have some sort of income and excise taxes will not do it alone. Individual taxes is not needed and should not exist. Then again maybe we are agreeing and I just am not understanding what you are saying

[edit on 5-9-2008 by mybigunit]

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Thanks man, for answering those questions. I won't bring up the Gustave argument here as it is off topic but I gather that you didn't get what I was saying in that thread.

However, It would be interesting to see what Ron Paul has to say about that issue. I don't think he would say that the people who live there will have to re-settle, do you?

He DID say that as FEMA has already been paid for by all of us, people should get the help if and when needed but that FEMA is ineffective. Which I cannot really argue with.

Also I don't care if it is Federal or Local help, as long as help is extended to those who need it and that it is effective when it does. That is my only concern.

I will certainly read more into Ron Paul's policies because I want the whole picture.

Ron Paul dont think FEMA should exist. Its another government bureaucracy that you pay in 1 million dollars but get 500k in value. I dont know how he recommends helping the people however. Me like I said I would have the states charge a tax. Obviously this tax will be higher in some states than others depending on the risk factor. I agree though help is help alls Im saying is its not the federal governments job. Their only job is to insure our liberties.

One thing that hasnt been brought up here and is very interesting to me would be the Fair Tax.


I listen to a lot of Neil Boortz and he swears by it. Eliminate the income tax and replace it with a small increase in sales tax on products and items sold.

That way there are no tax loop holes for the wealthy to use to manipulate paying what is fair. Also, this way illegal aliens would actually be paying taxes as well. Every time they buy something they pay tax.


Here is info on this program, I am no expert on the subject so I will provide a link to the Americans for Fair Tax site.

What is the FairTax plan?


The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS

Fair Tax link

reply to post by BlackOps719


A consumption tax too would work. It also brings up all the underground money also like prostitute or drug money. This could be a good replacement for a corporate tax. Point well taken.

Publicised for weeks, and all he could draw was possibly 15,000? Pretty pathetic.

His "message" does not resonate with Americans. That's because he is senile, has total;ly lost touch with reality, and is completely out of touch with the people of this country.

He is simply a bad joke, slowly sliding into obscurity.

Originally posted by OldMedic
Publicised for weeks, and all he could draw was possibly 15,000? Pretty pathetic.

15,000 people paid, it was sold out which means no more room. Nobody paid to attend the RNC, that was "taxpayer" funded. I'm sure Dr. Paul could have filled Madison Square Garden if he wanted to, except he chose Minneapolis, which was directly across the RNC as a political statement. (To remind the Fascist of what they once stood for)

His "message" does not resonate with Americans. That's because he is senile, has total;ly lost touch with reality, and is completely out of touch with the people of this country. He is simply a bad joke, slowly sliding into obscurity.

You must have a low opinion of the American public if you think they don't want small government and no wars.

On the contrary, just like everything in life; just like you find yourself praising Grunge music today (a good 10 to 15 years after the fact) YOU TOO will be talking about how YOU were into RON PAUL ahead of the curve. You might as well join the revolution now otherwise you'll just be looked at as another wannabe when the rest of the American public catches up with him.

You might as well start liking RON PAUL now, ahead of the curve before it's trendy, oldmedic.


[edit on 5-9-2008 by Gateway]

I don't get it, so many people support Ron Paul and what he says but so few are really trying to actually do something. The people need to be informed...

Why not join campaignforliberty. and help inform people?

reply to post by Techsnow


I donate to RP but I dont need to join anything. I tell everyone I meet and talk to about Ron Paul and that is what people need to do. Every single person tells me "Ron Who?" This is more effective than joining some blog site and talking to people who already know about RP.

Originally posted by Tomis_Nexis

Originally posted by Alferd Packer
I got so so so SO pissed off when i Heard on the Radio yesterday that Bush and Chaney sent 1 Billion dollars worth in Aid to Georgia. WTF !!!!

It's not aid, it's a loan. Don't let the media fool you. Here's how it goes:

Hmmm...That makes all the difference, doesn't it? Let's see, in all of American history, is there any nation that hasn't defaulted on loans we give them? After the default, then it's wasn't a loan, was it? No, it's become "aid." If the "loan" was issued in "American Dollars," then it could never be a true "loan" anyway.

Here's how it really goes:

The Fed Res Bank giving loans to our government is what helped bankrupt the country in the first place! When the government went bankrupt, it was turned into a "corporate branch" of the Federal Reserve Bank. Would this mean that the USA actually wants other nations to default on such loans for the exact same purpose the the banks ran the USA into bankruptcy? How can a nation that's already bankrupt (USA) actually issue loans in the first place? Is it a "loan" if there's no actual assets put at risk? If it can't be a "loan," then the truth must be that it's "aid," even right from the inception of the "transaction."

BTW, that's how banks did it to the American public too...If you default on a "loan" & they drag you into court (do everything you can to make sure they are the ones to drag you into court...That makes you the defendant & you can fight them more effectively), subpoena their accounting entries for that "transaction." The truth is, there was no real "transaction of substance" because their records will show that the banks accounts still zero out. The banks cannot issue any loans legally because putting bank assets at risk violates the Fed Res regulations & they can't put any of the banks' client-assets at risk because it's a violation of General Accounting regulations...So, in the end, they manipulate the records so that the bank's accounts still zero out. There can be no "loan" if there is no risk of assets.

So, in truth, you weren't "loaned" anything so the "interest rate" is illegal. The truth is that credit was generated by your signature & since the banks literally generate FRN's out of thin air, they're worth nothing anyway. No Loan Transaction with Substance = No Repayments with Substance: You can discharge the debt by "Repayment in kind," which means "Credit for credit." Legally, it's tricky, but if/when you learn how, it really does work. This is why you should never sign for any "loan" that gives them "collateral." In essence, your signature finances the initial loan & your "substantive property" re-finances it again! If they have any of your property as "collateral," that loan contract gives them the legal right (but no Constitutional Right) to confiscate it...Thereby making you pay your Substance for that Unsubstantial "loan."

The Constitution clearly states that none of the States can use anything but gold or silver for money...It also states that Congress is delegated the Power to "coin our money & determine the value thereof." If the Federal Government issues anything but gold or silver, it must be backed by gold or silver in storage. This is what JFK's Executive Order 11110 was all about...To "wean" America off of the illegality of the Fed Res & its FRN's & to put real money with real substance back into circulation.

But the Fed Res Bank literally prints up money from thin air, because it only costs 2 cents to print any number they want on the FRN's (but the government actually pays that 2-cent cost, not the Fed Res). So, the difference between the actual cost to print compared to the denomination on the "money" itself represents pure profit to the Fed Res Bank...The FRN's are nothing more than "corporate scrip," a certificate of debt to the Fed Res. This is why a "bank loan" that you apply for constitutes "no transaction of substance."

This is one of the "economy problems" that Ron Paul is definitely aware of...But due to his position in Congress, he may not be able to tell it all in the open. But he certainly has had to deal with it in his 30+ years in Congress! This is why he says that the Fed Res is illegal...Because it is!

I don't know who originally said this, but it's quite true: "If you can't conquer an enemy with your army, you send in your lawyers." This also holds true by sending in your accountants...

Originally posted by BlackOps719
The part with Jessie Ventura talking about pro wrestling being real and politics being fake...that was hilarious.

Well, WWE stands for "World Wrestling Entertainment," so you at least get told right up front that they're trying to entertain you...That's honesty! I still watch it because it makes me think of a soap opera after being thoroughly hosed down with testosterone.

After all, if many of those "blood feuds" between individual wrestlers was for real, then how could you claim that they just have to get into the ring before they settle their arguments? They all seem to be running around pretty freely backstage, don't they? Why not settle up in private? Of course, they can only make their money by settling the feuds in front of a paying audience! Why else do you think that so many wrestling stars wind up making movies?...Jessie Ventura included! See, Jessie is right! Wrestling is more honest than politics!

Originally posted by autowrench
I too am a long time Ron Paul follower. Here is what I will do on election day. I will insist on a Paper Ballot. Paper leaves a "paper trail" that can easily be followed, and is very heard to alter, unlike electronic voting machines.

Even if any particular State still "requires" the electronic voting machines, voters can still request Absentee Ballots...Those are always paper. Just make sure you get your request in on time, or you'll never get your actual vote in before the deadline. I'm lucky in that my State still uses paper ballots...Counted by a machine, but the paper's still there for verification. Of course, "he who counts the ballots determines the winner," so I still can't guarantee that Absentee Ballots won't be ignored...
As for myself, I intend to either write in Ron Paul/Jessie Ventura, or just go with "No Confidence/None of the Above."

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
How would he take care of the people who really cannot take care of themselves?

How would he ensure that healthcare was made available to all without having to mortgage your home when the insurance won't pay for treatment?

To get Dr. Paul's answer would best be done by reading what he's already said about those problems...But IMO:
First thing to do is to educate people on how they can best take the responsibility for themselves on how to best achieve their own goals in life...People must stop begging the government to take the responsibility of running their lives because the government's already done a real bang-up job of it, haven't they?
At best, give people a bit of help (through the State taxes if necessary, but leave the feds out of it) so they can get started taking care of themselves & let them take it from there...Stop giving "handouts" for their whole lives, because that's just another way to keep people "regulated" by the government for their whole lives.

Health care is best done for yourself: Begin to set up trust funds with specific terms for payments, just like what the professional insurance companies do...The biggest difference is that you don't have to depend on a corporation's decisions on what will be getting paid for. Insurance corporations are little more than "legalized protection scams" in that keep taking your premiums but do everything they can to "justify" not paying out when you really need it & they also use your money for long-term investments that reap bigger profits for themselves...Wouldn't your life work out so much better if you were doing that for yourself?

The key is, don't put your dependence on anyone else...Take the responsibility for yourself because you're the one least likely to betray you! It's not easy to actually get situated for this, but you'll have a lot more peace of mind in the long run. Also, teach your kids how to do the same for themselves for when they grow up: They may seem to hate you at first for cramming all they need to know into their heads, but once they actually take over for their own lives & come to understand what you were doing for them, they'll probably thank you for it. Wouldn't that kind of recognition warm any parent's heart? Dr. Paul has delivered enough babies in his time to see the glow in the faces of new parents to understand.

It seems to me that this is one of the things Ron Paul is trying to tell us...Stop feeding the government so that it keeps getting bigger & more invasive. By taking care of ourselves, we reduce the apparent need for big government.

-------------Continued Below---------

---------Concluded From Above----------

Originally posted by mybigunit
...because its no longer these united states its the united states. All under one umbrella.

Ummm, not to nit-pick, but:
The correct usage is either "these united States" to represent the union of States & "the United States" when referring specifically to the federal government as the "national corporation" that it's become since it went bankrupt. Yes, the specific usage of capital lettering makes all the difference if you have use the actually legal definitions of certain words & terms. Law Dictionaries come in really handy if you need to construct a case for a courtroom or need to write affidavits in order to settle things out of court through the Due Process of Law.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ron Paul dont think FEMA should exist. Its another government bureaucracy that you pay in 1 million dollars but get 500k in value.

I don't remember the source where I read this, but it was a study done by a credible source. All of the Individual Taxes collected (by the IRS) go straight to the Fed Res Bank to make partial payment on the interest rates of the money that the Fed Res loans to the government...And the government is overspending so much that for every $1 they collect for that interest payment, the government spends another $1.59. The real kicker is that this was quoted in 1991...Think about how much worse it is now that the government is overspending even faster with the "War on Terrorism" & the number of sovereign nations they keep invading.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

Ive been a lurker for quite some time and didnt really want to register for fear of being put on a government watch list but I cant stay silent any longer! Im sure TPTB keep track of us lurkers too so what have I got to lose that has not already been wagered?

Many thanks to the OP and the rest of ATS for introducing me to Ron Paul! God bless you all. It has given me a glimmer of hope within a ocean of despair. He seems one of the few genuine politicians if I may use that term.

I hope there are others in power with similar views that are working behind the scenes to further his vision.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ron Paul dont think FEMA should exist. Its another government bureaucracy that you pay in 1 million dollars but get 500k in value.

I don't remember the source where I read this, but it was a study done by a credible source. All of the Individual Taxes collected (by the IRS) go straight to the Fed Res Bank to make partial payment on the interest rates of the money that the Fed Res loans to the government...And the government is overspending so much that for every $1 they collect for that interest payment, the government spends another $1.59. The real kicker is that this was quoted in 1991...Think about how much worse it is now that the government is overspending even faster with the "War on Terrorism" & the number of sovereign nations they keep invading.

[edit on 6-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

The source you are referring to is the grace commission. They are the ones who came to the conclusion that all of our money goes to interest. That was done under Regan. Not that anything became of it though.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


This is sad.I'm 15 years old and this all just scares me, what will become of our future. The economic crisis is a big deal. All the other candidates care about is everyother country but ours. We have troops in a 150 other countries "protecting them" but who's protecting us? The non interventions policy Ron talks about is the solution. I don't hear the other candidates talk about foreign policies or their ideas. Ron Paul was our only hope, and it frustrates me that he was made fun of by the other candidates. He was the only one with a solution, and he was the only one who actually made sense with what he was saying.
Hopefully the millions of people who back Ron up will get noticed and our support will make a change!