What's the deal with the water fluoridation?

Fluoride Deposition in the Aged Human Pineal Gland

This is a significant point in this discussion. Your pineal gland is more important than you can imagine IMO. A calcified pineal gland is becoming the norm in our population. Watch David Wilcocks 2012 the enigma for an awesome perspective of this issue as well as the pineal gland symbolism in the catholic church and other civilizations ancient and not.

reply to post by Amaterasu


That post was the most ignorant, arrogant, and pretentious thing I've seen in a while.

You've obviously missed out on the very basics of chemistry and metabolism.

You might want to rethink the direction that you approach things, that is, unless you do enjoy living in a fantasy world where the walls are tumbling toward you.

Even though I know you won't.

reply to post by logician magician


Logician, can you be more specific? What aspects of his post do you think are inaccurate?

reply to post by logician magician


Specifically where in that post are the flaws/problems ? I thought it was a good post, and right on the money.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

I've not seen any info on this topic but I've seen and heard references to this conspiracy for a while.

What do you guys know on the subject?

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

wow man.
you obviously missed the Scientific American magazine 7 page article on the subject last year.

I used to tell my parents about this..
and of course they could not believe that the dentistry industry would ever lie to them (even though mercury fillings by EPA standards need to be disposed of in near Haz-Mat circumstances)....

So I show them this article and they shed some naivite' and say... wow... a reputable source...
wow.. maybe.. maybe money DOES mean more than sanity in today's world.... hmmmmmm..

link - www.sciam.com...

* Researchers are intensifying their scrutiny of fluoride, which is added to most public water systems in the U.S. Some recent studies suggest that overconsumption of fluoride can raise the risks of disorders affecting teeth, bones, the brain and the thyroid gland. * A 2006 report by a committee of the National Research Council recommended that the federal government lower its current limit for fluoride in drinking water because of health risks to both children and adults. —The Editors Long before the passionate debates over cigarettes, DDT, asbestos or the ozone hole, most Americans had heard of only one environmental health controversy: fluoridation. Starting in the 1950s, hundreds of communities across the U.S. became embroiled in heated battles over whether fluorides—ionic compounds containing the element fluorine—should be added to their water systems. On one side was a broad coalition of scientists from government and industry who argued that adding fluoride to drinking water would protect teeth against decay; on the other side were activists who contended that the risks of fluoridation were inadequately studied and that the practice amounted to compulsory medication and thus was a violation of civil liberties.

the printed magazine article is more impressive with photos of mottled teeth and graphics of how sodium fluoride reduces calcium uptake etc.. making bones more susceptible to osteoporosis..


and from - books.google.com...

Enzymes are spectacularly sensitive to fluoride. In files that were only declassified in the mid-1990s it was revealed that in 1944 Harold Hodge's bomb-program researchers at the University of Rochester had experimented with hog liver enzymes to measure fluoride pollution in bomb factories. Fluoride was so much more toxic to the esterase enzyme than uranium that contamination by fluoride and uranium could easily be differentiated.

Fluoride was first discovered to be a valuable additive to water supplies when it was shown to be a perfect method of making a populace more submissive and docile.
This was implemented in Nazi concentration camps and the Russian Gulag.


HAY GUYSS haay whats up with that weirdo talk about dat fluoride conspiracy weirdo talk? havent heard about that in awhile hay guysss haay whats up wif dat stuff??


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1954 C.E.Perkins, I.G.Farben chemist, admits fluoride is to reduce resistance in people to authority.

Fine a link or scan to those journal pages. Posting snippets of text from a conspiracy site is not evidence. If you want anyone to believe your theory you should at least make an effort.

This is presuming a one-time exposure. Continuous daily intake is damaging:

Tell me how much fluoride I will ingest if I brush my teeth twice a day and live to be 150 years old. I'll give you a hint: around 1% of a toxic dose. Compare that with any experiment those shows that that particular dose will have any effect on me, and post it here.

Now here you're either being disingenuous or are uneducated. What they are dumping in our water supplies is sodium fluoride. It is a toxic and hazardous waste material which is a result of processing various things, most commonly the production of aluminum.

Believing that "they are still dumping sodium fluoride" in our water supplies is misdirection from all the conspiracy sites you are visiting. It is done because the toxic doses are much lower than what they use now. Here is a snippet from wikipedia. Do a search for any of those acids and be amazed at how many water facilities use that.

H2SiF 6 is hydrofluorosilic acid. It has 2 Hydrogen Atoms, 1 Silicon Atom, and 6 Fluorine atoms.

NaF is sodium fluoride. It has 1 Sodium Atom, and 1 Fluorine atom.

You can interpret that however you see fit. I've probably just scared you even more.

Fluoridation chemicals are typically added to potable water in the form of sodium hexafluorosilicate or hexafluorosilicic acid (also known as hydrofluorosilic acid). [2][3]

Why does associating it with the processing of aluminum mean anything to you? It's just another misdirection tactic. Please tell me exactly how its use as an additive/processing agent inherently makes it harmful to humans. Lithium is used in batteries and in medicine, along with countless other minerals that have more than one use. Manganese is used in steel production, but it's also an essential mineral for our body. Do you think there is a conspiracy there too, or do you realize that you are just throwing around straw man arguments?

How about this:

The range of fluorides is considerable as fluorine forms compounds with all elements except He and Ne[1][2]. Fluorides range from severe toxins such as sarin to life-saving pharmaceuticals such as efavirenz and from refractory materials such as calcium fluoride to highly reactive sulfur tetrafluoride.

Why do you keep saying that it is "toxic"? Do you think water, or caffeine are not toxic? Are you familiar with the term "dosage" ?

reply to post by prevenge


Hey that sounds familiar - aspirin is risky if overused too.

How is that a conspiracy? The fact that it is in the water supply does not make it a communist plot.

The information about the potential risks are available everywhere. I've seen it on the local and national news. You probably have too. You just posted an article from Scientific American, saying it is a risk at high levels, for crying out loud. Someone left a comment that said they read the same article in the dentists office. The conspiraitors must be slipping!

It is rather inconvenient that the financially declined may be somewhat forced to drink tapwater, but most people don't do it and nobody is going to provide water for free. Many counties even vote to not put it in the drinking water.

If you read the history of fluoride, what has happened is that it was/is thought to be beneficial to teeth in very low doses with earlier studies, and it appears to have stuck around in our water by presumption. It's great that studies are being performed on it and that people are learning that yes, just like any other drug, fluoride can be toxic in higher doses.

reply to post by Swingarm

This is a significant point in this discussion. Your pineal gland is more important than you can imagine IMO. A calcified pineal gland is becoming the norm in our population.
The second line of the article reads: New research indicates that a cavity-fighting treatment could be risky if overused

Again, if overused it could be risky. Further, what are you talking about? Please tell me what you think you got out of reading that study, because it is perfectly normal and healthy to have a "calcified" pineal gland.

Originally posted by logician magician
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

That post was the most ignorant, arrogant, and pretentious thing I've seen in a while.

You've obviously missed out on the very basics of chemistry and metabolism.

You might want to rethink the direction that you approach things, that is, unless you do enjoy living in a fantasy world where the walls are tumbling toward you.

Even though I know you won't.

actually, I think Amaterasu´s post was VERY good.
Ok, the "uneducated"and "Nazi" comments were a little off, but the rest is scientifically supported.

Originally posted by logician magician

1954 C.E.Perkins, I.G.Farben chemist, admits fluoride is to reduce resistance in people to authority.

Fine a link or scan to those journal pages. Posting snippets of text from a conspiracy site is not evidence. If you want anyone to believe your theory you should at least make an effort.

You are reaching here. Picking one example I copied from the source provided (leaving all other excerpts unaddressed. I roll my eyes.

But just for drill, I will offer you this:

www.northern-times.co.uk...
(Another C.E. Perkins quote.)

www.relfe.com...
(Same quote but more historical data - One in particular I like:

1954 Reward of $30,000 offered to anyone who proves polio vaccine not a fraud.Not one person was able to claim the reward.

Which isn't on this topic, but is part of the same defrauding to our detriment by corporo-fascist evil.)

This is presuming a one-time exposure. Continuous daily intake is damaging:

Tell me how much fluoride I will ingest if I brush my teeth twice a day and live to be 150 years old. I'll give you a hint: around 1% of a toxic dose. Compare that with any experiment those shows that that particular dose will have any effect on me, and post it here.

You're just not getting it (deliberately dense, I suspect). The toxicity is not measured in DEATH. It's measured in DAMAGE. And ANY fluoride causes damage. An ongoing minimal onslaught causes cumulative damage, to DNA, to bone, to the pineal gland, to the brain, to the reproductive organs and other internal organs, heightens the likelihood of cancer, and on and on.

As far as the amount you would ingest in the period of time you brought up... I am not a scientist, but I can surely guess that it depends on how much you wind up swallowing, how long you retain it in your mouth to be absorbed by gum and other tissue, and the specific levels of fluoride in the paste you are using.

My guestimate would be closer to 50% - give or take 25%. You show me the research that proves you're correct.

Now here you're either being disingenuous or are uneducated. What they are dumping in our water supplies is sodium fluoride. It is a toxic and hazardous waste material which is a result of processing various things, most commonly the production of aluminum.

Believing that "they are still dumping sodium fluoride" in our water supplies is misdirection from all the conspiracy sites you are visiting. It is done because the toxic doses are much lower than what they use now. Here is a snippet from wikipedia. Do a search for any of those acids and be amazed at how many water facilities use that.

H2SiF 6 is hydrofluorosilic acid. It has 2 Hydrogen Atoms, 1 Silicon Atom, and 6 Fluorine atoms.

NaF is sodium fluoride. It has 1 Sodium Atom, and 1 Fluorine atom.

You can interpret that however you see fit. I've probably just scared you even more.

Yep:

www.topangamessenger.com...

www.signonsandiego.com...

www.noforcedfluoride.org...

www.beaconoftruth.com...

fluoride.ecobytes.net...
(Quote from this site:

“Hydrofluorosilic acid does not occur in nature,” said Connett. “Naturally occurring fluoride has calcium that combines with the fluoride. It’s pure fluoride, not this waste. You wouldn’t use industrial grade to put fluoride into toothpaste. Why should you put it into water? The only answer you get is because it’s cheap,” Connett said.

)

There's much more I could link to.

I noticed you hacked off my explanation that NATURAL fluoride is CALCIUM fluoride...

Fluoridation chemicals are typically added to potable water in the form of sodium hexafluorosilicate or hexafluorosilicic acid (also known as hydrofluorosilic acid). [2][3]

Wow:

www.forfarmers.com...

www.redorbit.com...
(From this site:

"This is a by-product of the fertiliser industry used in the adding of fluoride to the water as the element fluorine does not exist on its own, but attaches to other chemicals.

"Hexafluorosilicic acid is one of the most toxic substances known to man. As an acid it leaches lead from the old water pipes, which then enters in to human beings and both chemicals will then enter, eventually, our rivers."

)

Yup. I bet they're REALLY good for you! Ah, there go my eyes again.

Why does associating it with the processing of aluminum mean anything to you? It's just another misdirection tactic. Please tell me exactly how its use as an additive/processing agent inherently makes it harmful to humans.

From: curezone.com...

1957 Alcoa Aluminum Company announces the sale of sodium fluoride (rat poison) directly to municipalities for fluoridation of drinking water. When it became obvious that phosphate fertilizer companies could sell toxic fluorides cheaper, Alcoa was priced out of the fluoride dumping market.

But of course this is not the only source for this datum.

There are many others.

Lithium is used in batteries and in medicine, along with countless other minerals that have more than one use. Manganese is used in steel production, but it's also an essential mineral for our body. Do you think there is a conspiracy there too, or do you realize that you are just throwing around straw man arguments?

Oh, good grief! Read the chronology. Yeah. Compare manganese to rat poison and insecticides. Oh, my eyes are rolling all over!

How about this:

The range of fluorides is considerable as fluorine forms compounds with all elements except He and Ne[1][2]. Fluorides range from severe toxins such as sarin to life-saving pharmaceuticals such as efavirenz and from refractory materials such as calcium fluoride to highly reactive sulfur tetrafluoride.

Why do you keep saying that it is "toxic"? Do you think water, or caffeine are not toxic? Are you familiar with the term "dosage" ?

Um... Because what they are adding to our water IS toxic...? Maybe that's why. Test after test after study after test shows this to be true. Water is NECESSARY, caffeine is NATURAL and processed through. Fluoride (as it is added to our water) in its gross molecular twisting being unnatural, is not well processed and is CUMULATIVE in its damage! "Dosage" is irrelevant when we're speaking in terms of CUMULATIVE damage.

What IS your f...rigging interest???

[edit on 9/4/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Um... Because what they are adding to our water IS toxic...? Maybe that's why. Test after test after study after test shows this to be true. Water is NECESSARY, caffeine is NATURAL and processed through. Fluoride (as it is added to our water) in its gross molecular twisting being unnatural, is not well processed and is CUMULATIVE in its damage! "Dosage" is irrelevant when we're speaking in terms of CUMULATIVE damage.

What IS your f...rigging interest???

Man, I still can't understand why you are getting so upset over this. Fluoride doesn't harm you at all in small doses. All of those studies you are listing are bunk inconclusive pseudoscience.

You are from USA right?

You sound like a Luddite, "Oh no! the crazy demon technology!"

What do you think would happen if they stopped adding fluoride to our water supplies?

What would happen if they stopped using it in our water and in our toothpastes?

Would that make you happy? Is that what you want?

Belgium had fluoride in the water for some years, and then outlawed the practice after it was decisively proven that it had no beneficial effects on dental health whatsoever, so if you believe that line about it being good for you, hey, I have an amazing island for sale..

The industrial waste which is sodium fluoride was absolutely useless and cost the industrys a lot to clean up.. untill they figured out how they could earn good money on the poison , telling us it's so good for us, they're really doing us a favor...

And still people will disregard all proof of this, and happily poison themselves and their children..

In my region, I cannot get drinking water from a stream, otherwise I'd be poisoned even worse.. Belgium's cleaning up it's act admittedly, but we're still years away from having drinkable water in our rivers..

Fact is, if you live in modern society, they will poison you in several ways, including water fluoridation and the additives they add to food.

Fanta for example holds one of the most toxic substances known to man. But hey, don't let this ruin your delusions, please.. poison yourself all you want, and maybe when you deluded fools kick off the IQ-level of the world goes up a notch..

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Um... Because what they are adding to our water IS toxic...? Maybe that's why. Test after test after study after test shows this to be true. Water is NECESSARY, caffeine is NATURAL and processed through. Fluoride (as it is added to our water) in its gross molecular twisting being unnatural, is not well processed and is CUMULATIVE in its damage! "Dosage" is irrelevant when we're speaking in terms of CUMULATIVE damage.

What IS your f...rigging interest???

Man, I still can't understand why you are getting so upset over this. Fluoride doesn't harm you at all in small doses. All of those studies you are listing are bunk inconclusive pseudoscience.

WTF? Prove it, dude.

You are from USA right?

I am, though what that has to do with it, I have no clue.

You sound like a Luddite, "Oh no! the crazy demon technology!"

I think rather I sound like someone who has researched. The fact that all this unnatural fluoride-based creppola has, over and over proven to cause damage, in even small amounts in lab animals and even in vegetable matter, and has been published, and has had no attack, but has merely been ignored, says a whole lot.

What do you think would happen if they stopped adding fluoride to our water supplies?

Cancer rates would go down, the incidence of Downs Syndrome would go down, there would even possibly be a reduction in caries. People would live longer, people would not have as many health issues, and...

They would be better equipped to think.

What do YOU think would happen?

What would happen if they stopped using it in our water and in our toothpastes?

See above.

Would that make you happy? Is that what you want?

Yes. On behalf of the millions who are being deliberately poisoned, absolutely.

reply to post by logician magician


wow man. you really got pretty animated about this subject.
definitely jumped down quite a few people's throats with your attempted debunking.

It obviously means ALOT to you that people not believe anything contrary to your points.

(I wonder how off the wall this guy gets when the subject of chemtrails is discussed.)

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reply to post by Amaterasu


I'd just like to say good job. It's good to see that there are people out there that don't automatically assume that the one's in control have our best interests in mind.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

I think...

Okay, if you are so health conscious about putting toxins in your body, let me ask you a few questions about what types of food you eat.. Please answer them honestly:

Do you drink tea?
Do you drink soda?
Do you drink fruit juices? (grape, apple, orange, etc...)

Do you drink wine or beer?
Do you drink coffee?

Do you eat at McDonalds? (french fires are good, right?)

Do you eat canned fish, fish sticks, and the like?

Do you eat raisins?

How about pork?

Deserts like ice pops or jello?

How about rice, beef, gravy, chicken pot pie, frozen dinners?

Do you eat your vegetables (potato, carrot, etc...) ?

How about potato chips, do you like potato chips?

Can you please respond with if you consume the above, and if so how often do you? Thanks.

I've been wondering about flouride effects on the brain as well.

And all I can say is this. If our government ever needs to start from scratch, I'm down.

No stupid "mouthrinse" is gonna prevent me from being a patriot of my country.

Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by Amaterasu

I think...

Okay, if you are so health conscious about putting toxins in your body, let me ask you a few questions about what types of food you eat.. Please answer them honestly:

Do you drink tea?
Do you drink soda?
Do you drink fruit juices? (grape, apple, orange, etc...)

Do you drink wine or beer?
Do you drink coffee?

Do you eat at McDonalds? (french fires are good, right?)

Do you eat canned fish, fish sticks, and the like?

Do you eat raisins?

How about pork?

Deserts like ice pops or jello?

How about rice, beef, gravy, chicken pot pie, frozen dinners?

Do you eat your vegetables (potato, carrot, etc...) ?

How about potato chips, do you like potato chips?

Can you please respond with if you consume the above, and if so how often do you? Thanks.

Tell ya what, dude... You show me how any of this relates to fluoride (other than the general topic of "What is healthy") and I'll answer you. (You will be surprised at my answers, BTW.)

I mean, we are talking about fluoride, a poison - and one that creates cumulative damage - being added deliberately to our water supplies and dentifrices. Not about the habits of one who sees this SPECIFIC issue as grossly harmful to humans, and evil in its purposeful enactment.

Yes, many of the things you listed are harmful (depending on source, mainly), but those matters are for another thread.

[edit on 9/5/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Nerds
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I'd just like to say good job. It's good to see that there are people out there that don't automatically assume that the one's in control have our best interests in mind.

Thank you, Nerds. [smile]

I figure that, since the love of money is (indeed!) the root of all evil, and the companies selling fluoro-poisons to municipalities do so, not in any interest for the people's teeth but because they...make money (duh)...with all the abundant evidence that fluorides are harmful, there is no way I can sit still and let some shill pacify the masses.

I have every interest in doing my small part to save humanity.

Originally posted by prevenge
reply to post by logician magician

 

(I wonder how off the wall this guy gets when the subject of chemtrails is discussed.)

His interest is likely not involved with Ctrails. He obviously has an interest in pacifying fears about fluoride. I might guess he works for a fertilizer company... [shrug]

[edit on 9/5/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Amaterasu

www.northern-times.co.uk...
(Another C.E. Perkins quote.)

www.relfe.com...
(Same quote but more historical data - One in particular I like:

I think you will find that is the one and only reference to this myth on the internet. Also, Perkins heard this from a German source who remains anonymous. If you take that as proof, then so be it. But it is a myth. Ask any holocaust survivor how readily available drinking water was and you will see that.