What's the deal with the water fluoridation?

I've not seen any info on this topic but I've seen and heard references to this conspiracy for a while.

What do you guys know on the subject?

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf

I've not seen any info on this topic but I've seen and heard references to this conspiracy for a while.

What do you guys know on the subject?

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

.... I'll give you a clue. Lots of governments want to or have introduced it into people’s water supply for health their 'benefit'? It’s been linked as a possible aggression suppressant and was apparently used by the Nazi’s for that very reason? …. Get the picture?

Look here for some info about the subject

So the implication is that the elite know exactly what it does, and are going to use it (already using it?) to impair the public's mental balance.

Ah man, I found info on fluoridation in my country. They are saying that the levels arn't high enough to be "Beneficial" so need to raise them.

[edit on 9/3/2008 by Good Wolf]

I know that here in the US (where I live anyways), they have been fluorinating water since I was a kid (like 40 years ago). I can't say I have noticed any ill effects from it, however I am not verse enough about it to say whether the benefits outweigh the potential risks if any.

reply to post by mapsurfer_


So is the consensus that it's not really a concern but just a theorist scare?

Well, I couldn't find any credible evidence that Nazis used it. Just one single, second-hand reference by one guy, Perkins. It's the same quote all over the internet. No holocaust survivors mention it, nor do any credible historical documents.

However, there are many references to the fact that drinking water was hard to come by in the camps. Tell me, if the goal was to placate with fluoridated water, why then withhold said water from the prisoners? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, I have been living in a fluoridated community all my life and haven't noticed any of these effects.

Here is a thread of mine in which we 'discuss' fluoridation. It gets heated at times, as such a polarizing topic is want to do, but not too bad.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was always under the impression (sorry, no sources) that fluoride was a chemical used to increase the impressionability of people. As in, making them more open to suggestion (and therefore more sensitive to advertising).

Maybe someone else has links to sources for this....

reply to post by TheComte


Cool. might aswell end the thread then.

reply to post by TheComte


I'm pretty sure it was used on the general german public not the prisoners who were to be killed anyway?

Originally posted by mapsurfer_
I know that here in the US (where I live anyways), they have been fluorinating water since I was a kid (like 40 years ago). I can't say I have noticed any ill effects from it, however I am not verse enough about it to say whether the benefits outweigh the potential risks if any.

I believe the link I provided above shows that fluoride isn't as harmless as you believe as its now being linked to long term bone problems for starters? It’s all about looking in the correct places in terms of research and asking the correct questions that are not commercially driven in some instances?

I too have wondered about this. Tried to by fluoride free toothpaste lately? Good luck. I know TPTB have a purpose for putting it in our drinking water, but
I have yet to figure out why, exactly. I was born in '53, and had fluoride treatments on my teeth as a child. All my teeth rotted out by the time I was in my twenties. Trying to get a dentist to talk about is like pulling teeth. They are all in it together, so get your drinking water from a natural spring, if you can. I do, and the water is sweet and good tasting, way different from city water here in Southern Ohio.

reply to post by mlmijyd


Well, no. The conspiracy theory is that it was used in the concentration camps to placate the prisoners. The only reference is by this Perkins who heard it supposedly from an anonymous German source. Also, the Allies are said to have found stockpiles of fluoride stacked beside the drinking water supply when they liberated the camps.
It is a myth.

reply to post by TheComte


I have no source but I remember reading something about the Russians using flouride in water and discovering that it made the prisoners fight less.

One thing I never understood is we already have flouride in our toothpaste and it says not to ingest. I know the levels are low, but still, why would we knowingly ingest it when we could just make it more prevalent in toothpastes or something.

Well, in my opinion there IS a huge conspiracy... I'm not saying that I know it's ways, but I HAVE to believe there's a conspiracy since they are putting POISON in the drinking water of many countries.

www.health-science.com...

www.fluoridealert.org...

Fluoride IS a poison.... Fluoride is a toxic element, ask any chemist.


Now, if I say that fluoride makes us dumb (as Alex Jones insists), calm, "robots", or what ever, I'll be just speculating , BUT I am 100% sure that taking (drinking) fluoride DOES NOT help in ANY way our own health... since it's a poison.


Peace

EDIT: adding links


[edit on 3-9-2008 by Sator]

The deal with fluoride is that it absorbs into your teeth, replacing a portion of the enamel with much stronger element fluoride. The fluoride is much more resistant to acids and so it protects your teeth from cavities better than if you hadn't used it.

Toothpaste and mouthwash are topical fluoride because they are not ingested through the stomach. This is because most toothpastes have about 1000 parts per million of fluoride vs. toothpaste and is considered a medicine. The FDA requires all over the counter products that contain drugs to include a warning label including instructions to seek medical attention.

City drinking water on the other hand has about 0.7 - 1.2 parts per million of fluoride compared to toothpaste. Natural water levels can vary greatly, with as little as 0.1ppm to pretty high. Seawater has 1.3 ppm of fluoride. Most fluoride that is consumed is passed through the urine within hours, and only trace amounts have been found in bones with normal use.

The toxic levels of fluoride (Hydrofluorosilicic acid) added to water is about 933 mg/kg over a period of 24-32 hours . There are 1 million milligrams of water in a liter. This means an average water supply has about 1 milligram of fluoride in a litre of water. If you drink a gallon a day, you're consuming about 4mg of fluoride. If you weigh 150lbs (68kg) you have to consume 63,444mg (63grams) over a period of about 1.3 days. That's 63,444 litres of water (15,861 gallons), each with 1mg of Hydrofluorosilicic acid. It's impossible. They used to use sodium fluoride in drinking water though, so you would have to drink 5,100 liters of water in 1.3 days to at least get sick - 2.6 liters a minute for 32 hours straight =) Contrast/compare that with the lethal dose of table salt: 204grams or 7.2 oz, or the lethal dose of Caffeine: 10 grams - about 1/3 oz. Vitamin poisoning also exists.

Toothpaste usually contains Sodium Fluoride (or stannous fluoride) at 1000ppm. The lethal dose (that would kill 50% of the people who took it) of this form is between 5000-10,000mg. That's around 75mg/kg in 1.3 days, or 5100mg at the lowest for a 150lb person. If the common toothpaste tube is 6 oz, or 170,000mg and has 0.454% (less than one percent, not 45 percent) sodium fluoride, then it has about 772mg of fluoride. You'd have to swallow more than 5 tubes. If you can make that tube last for 100 brushes, then you are using 1.7 grams of toothpaste per brush, and that brush contains 0.00771mg (7.71micrograms) of fluoride.

Nothing to worry about.

reply to post by logician magician


Thanks logician...you saved me from having to put in a lot of the particulars.
I am a retired water treatment specialist and have worked with large and small municipal water treatment systems for over 30 years.
As with chlorine which is also a "poison", fluoride has beneficial uses. Primarily fluoride in drinking is most beneficial for children who are developing their permanent teeth. This hardens the enamel and prevents caries down the road.
Fluoride's impact on teeth was discovered many years ago by comparisons of naturally occurring fluoride in different parts of the country and the prevalence of conditions ranging from soft enamel to brittle teeth. Concentrations of lest than 0.7 mg/l have basically no effect, regardless of how much is consumed, and concentrations in excess of 2.5 mg/l can cause teeth to become mottled and brittle. Prior to topical fluoride treatment any competent dentist will ask you if your water is fluoridated to prevent overexposure resulting in mottled or brittle enamel.
Any chemical that is added to a municipal water supply is monitored extremely closely. In NY, water quality lab procedures are required at a minimum of every four hours as well as continuous electronic monitoring of feed equipment.
Also, just for us "insiders", having fluoride in a water system is a useful tool in discovering and repairing water mains. Fluoride does not break down in the environment as quickly as chlorine so if we find traces of fluoride above background levels bubbling out of the ground we know we have a leak.

I wanted to add to a previous post which is thrown about when discussing "poisons" added to your drinking water.
Chlorine, for example, has been in use since the early 1900's for the prevention of some pretty heinous conditions such as cholera, typhoid, and dysentery. One of the first things you read about in the aftermath of a natural disaster is the lack of sufficient safe drinking water and the potential that these diseases will spread.
There are several new technologies to address some of the drawbacks of the use of large concentrations of chlorine, especially in sources with high organic loading, to prevent the formation of a family of byproducts (THM's or trihalomethanes) that are suspected carcinogens. Pre-oxidation and removal of organics prior to chlorination, the use of chlorine dioxide, and ultraviolet radiation to name a few.
I would also like to add that while you are complaining about the price of gas, look at that bottled water in your hand. Tap water generally cost a few pennies and remains the cheapest commodity that you consume. If you do a little research, you will find that many of the bottled water sources that you are paying top dollar for actually come from municipal sources.

OK, I promise this will be my last post on this subject but I wanted to share a little secret.
For those of you who my be more sensitive to the smell of chlorine in your drinking water (you exist but studies show that most people can't smell it at normal concentrations of 0.8 to 1.5 mg/l) here is a simple remedy. Fill a jug with water, shake it up, and put it in your 'fridge. Chlorine is a gas and will vent out of the water. This is also environmentally friendly as you won't be wasting water by running it until it gets cold.
This method also works for those of you who may be on a well supply that has that rotten egg smell to it. The smell comes from sulfur dioxide which is also a gas and will vent just like the chlorine.
I'm done..promise.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by zlots331]

Originally posted by logician magician
The deal with fluoride is that it absorbs into your teeth, replacing a portion of the enamel with much stronger element fluoride. The fluoride is much more resistant to acids and so it protects your teeth from cavities better than if you hadn't used it.

Turns out this is a story they tell you. There is no evidence that fluoride does anything to one's teeth but, at a certain level, turns them brown and spotted.

Toothpaste and mouthwash are topical fluoride because they are not ingested through the stomach.

Again, this is incorrect. SOME toothpaste is swallowed, as also is mouthwash. On top of that, it is absorbed through the mouth.

This is because most toothpastes have about 1000 parts per million of fluoride vs. toothpaste and is considered a medicine. The FDA requires all over the counter products that contain drugs to include a warning label including instructions to seek medical attention.

Scary, isn't it?

City drinking water on the other hand has about 0.7 - 1.2 parts per million of fluoride compared to toothpaste. Natural water levels can vary greatly, with as little as 0.1ppm to pretty high. Seawater has 1.3 ppm of fluoride. Most fluoride that is consumed is passed through the urine within hours, and only trace amounts have been found in bones with normal use.

Now here you're either being disingenuous or are uneducated. What they are dumping in our water supplies is sodium fluoride. It is a toxic and hazardous waste material which is a result of processing various things, most commonly the production of aluminum.

What is in the water naturally is calcium fluoride.

The toxic levels of fluoride (Hydrofluorosilicic acid) added to water is about 933 mg/kg over a period of 24-32 hours . There are 1 million milligrams of water in a liter. This means an average water supply has about 1 milligram of fluoride in a litre of water. If you drink a gallon a day, you're consuming about 4mg of fluoride. If you weigh 150lbs (68kg) you have to consume 63,444mg (63grams) over a period of about 1.3 days. That's 63,444 litres of water (15,861 gallons), each with 1mg of Hydrofluorosilicic acid. It's impossible. They used to use sodium fluoride in drinking water though, so you would have to drink 5,100 liters of water in 1.3 days to at least get sick - 2.6 liters a minute for 32 hours straight =) Contrast/compare that with the lethal dose of table salt: 204grams or 7.2 oz, or the lethal dose of Caffeine: 10 grams - about 1/3 oz. Vitamin poisoning also exists.

This is presuming a one-time exposure. Continuous daily intake is damaging:

From: curezone.com...

1954 A study is published which links fluorides and the development of cancer in animals. Ref: A Taylor, "Sodium Fluoride in the Drinking Water of Mice",Dental Digest, Vol 60, pp170-172.

and...

1954 C.E.Perkins, I.G.Farben chemist, admits fluoride is to reduce resistance in people to authority.

and...

1956 March 1956 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association, H.C. Hodge remarks, "skeletal deposition of fluoride is a continuing process in which a considerable portion of the ingested fluoride, perhaps 25 to 50%, is deposited in the skeleton."

and...

1958 Renowned geneticist H.J. Muller reveals that fluorides produce primary damage by injuring the genetic material of the cells they enter. [Muller, Symposium on Emphysema and Chronic Bronchitis: "Do Air Pollutants Act as Mutagens?", Aspen, Colorado, June 13-15, 1958]

and...

1959 Rapaport does a second study on fluoridation and birth defects in Illinois from 1950 to 1956. The study is reported in 1959. The data indicated a highly significant association between the frequency of Down's Syndrome and the fluoride content of the mother's drinking water.

and...

1963 A study is published which links fluorides and development of cancer in animals. Ref: Irwin Herskowitz and Isabel Norton "Increased Incidence of Melanotic Tumors...Following Treatment with Sodium Fluoride", Genetics, Vol 48, pp307-310.

and...

1965 A study is published which links fluorides to cancer in animals. Ref: A. Taylor and N.C.Taylor, "Effect of Fluoride on Tumor Growth", Proceedings of the Society of Experimental Biology and Medicine, Vol 65, pp252-255.

and...

1966 Scientific report reveals that "at concentrations too low to cause visible tissue injury, fluorides induce significant mitotic and meiotic chromosome alterations in tomato plants." [Mohamed, A.H.,et al, "Cytological Effects of Hydrogen Fluoride on Tomato Chromosomes" Canadian Journal of Genetic Cytology, Vol 8, p.575-583,1966]

and...

1966 On April 22, 1966, Dr. F.J. McClure of the National Institute of Dental Research stated that according to their studies, "neither fluoridated toothpaste not topical application with stannous fluoride is found to be of benefit in reducing the incidence of children's cavities".

and...

1968 In the January 1968 issue of the Journal of the Louisiana State Medical Society, Dr. C.C. Bass writes, "I now believe that continued ingestion of fluoride actually increases the activity of the already existing periodontoclasia."

and...

1968 Scientists at the University of Holland, Drs. Mukherjee and Sobels, find that fluorides increase the frequency of genetic damage in sperm cells of lab animals exposed to X-rays. Fluorides inhibited the repair of DNA damaged by radiation.

and...

1970 The U.S. Department of Agriculture Research Service releases Handbook No. 380, which summarizes some of the devastating effects of fluoride pollution: "A literature review was presented to indicate that fluoride was one of the industrial poisons that lowered the immunobiological response of man, pigeons, rabbits and other animals against certain diseases, such as typhoid fever, anthrax, tuberculosis and Staphylococcus aureus (p.52: Ref: Fridlyland, I.G.,1959, The Effect of Industrial Poisons on the Immunological State of the Organism, Gigiena i Sanitariya 24 (8): 55-61 (p.56).

Read the source linked and you will KNOW there is a conspiracy.

Toothpaste usually contains Sodium Fluoride (or stannous fluoride) at 1000ppm. The lethal dose (that would kill 50% of the people who took it) of this form is between 5000-10,000mg. That's around 75mg/kg in 1.3 days, or 5100mg at the lowest for a 150lb person. If the common toothpaste tube is 6 oz, or 170,000mg and has 0.454% (less than one percent, not 45 percent) sodium fluoride, then it has about 772mg of fluoride. You'd have to swallow more than 5 tubes. If you can make that tube last for 100 brushes, then you are using 1.7 grams of toothpaste per brush, and that brush contains 0.00771mg (7.71micrograms) of fluoride.

Again, you are presuming a single encounter here. NOT every day for years on end.

Nothing to worry about.

Who do you work for? Alcoa? Or a Nazi outfit? There's PLENTY to worry about!

I've heard around that the pineal gland tends to have a high concentration of flouride in it, what are they trying to do, kill our third eye?