Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Republicans deny theres a coming recession when a financial and housing crises is starring them in the face.
www.economist.com...

Republicans deny the existence of global warming despite the evidence pointed out by the worlds lead scientists.
thetyee.ca...

Republicans still believe the Iraq war was justified.

Its very easy to deny the facts, but that doesnt mean you can escape them.

Enough said.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Ya you would hope enough said... I think JAMIE AND JET get payed per word typed. But they must earn the real bucks on a sliding scale. Depending upon how creative and ridiculous the construct is, these fellers can earn anywhere from $5 to $8.50 per word...

LORDOBAMA, MESSIAHOBAMA and LIBERAL/S = DOUBLE PAY BONUS + 1 ENTRY TICKET IN THE MONTHLY GOP RAFFAL OFF. ( PER OCCURRENCE, AS RECITED - STATE AND LOCAL TAXES MAY APPLY...)

reply to post by jetxnet

Mental, the facts escape you once again. No surprise there.

So says the guy who has yet to post a single source for his "information"

Before you go off touting facts, maybe you should get yours in check first





Liberals havent had a strangle hold on this country for the last 8 years.
Conservatives have.

Look where it got us.

[edit on 9/1/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by jamie83


Although technically you are correct assuming the numbers are right, you can't actually believe everything is ok?

Massive job loss
Massive defaulting on loans
Home values have dropped considerably
Gas prices hovering at $4.00 per gallon
INCREDIBLE amounts of home forclosures

My point is that things are FAR from rosey and pretending they are, won't fix the problems. John McCain thinks everything is great ! Well if I had 7+ homes and married to a millionare wife, I'd think everything was fine too


Believe me, as a typical small business owner, I can tell you that everything is far from all right.

How about this latest Reuters propaganda piece? Following the tried and true liberal technique of, "if reality doesn't fit my agenda, just lie!"

news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AhT.Cu5ZQOYKULF_T2EWrhMWIr0F

e Unemployment leaps over 20 percent in 25 New York counties

Fortunately, that's not true at all. According to their own statistics, unemployment has only gone up .2%. Not quite the chicken little sale that Reuters is selling.

www.labor.state.ny.us...


What Reuters doesn't tell you is that they got their data from the Fiscal Policy Institute. A left wing institute that spends its time creating reality to get democrats elected.

I think it is fair to call an economy in a downward spiral a recession even if it does not agree with the official criteria used to declare one.
Borrowing money to pospone an official recession is nothing to cheer about.
The long term outlook look does not look promising.
I would disagree that we are in a deep recession but we are in one.
In July income was down and so was spending after being adjusted for inflation according to the Commerce Department.
I don't see any economy booming around here
.I am stuck where I am.
My wages have not kept up with increased expenses and milk at Walmart has recently topped 4 dollars a gallon.
It is hard for me to save any money.
I have little doubt many people are going through the same thing ,so none of our statisics will matter when it comes time to vote.
Unless of course the neocons scare everyone into voting for them with warnings about terrorists that hate our freedom or some other exaggerated BS.

Originally posted by Dronetek
How about this latest Reuters propaganda piece? Following the tried and true liberal technique of, "if reality doesn't fit my agenda, just lie!"

news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AhT.Cu5ZQOYKULF_T2EWrhMWIr0F

e Unemployment leaps over 20 percent in 25 New York counties

Fortunately, that's not true at all. According to their own statistics, unemployment has only gone up .2%. Not quite the chicken little sale that Reuters is selling.

www.labor.state.ny.us...


What Reuters doesn't tell you is that they got their data from the Fiscal Policy Institute. A left wing institute that spends its time creating reality to get democrats elected.

So are you saying everything is fine ??

reply to post by jfj123


I'm saying its all been about scaremongering for the last 7 years. When was the last time you heard them reporting anything even remotely positive about the economy and yet, still no depression.

The economy isn't perfect, but its hardly the doomsday these people would have you beleive. its all about getting Obama elected.

I'm sure you'll all be happy when Obama is elected and the media suddenly has lots of positive economic news....

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by jfj123

 

I'm saying its all been about scaremongering for the last 7 years. When was the last time you heard them reporting anything even remotely positive about the economy and yet, still no depression.

The economy isn't perfect, but its hardly the doomsday these people would have you beleive. its all about getting Obama elected.

I'm sure you'll all be happy when Obama is elected and the media suddenly has lots of positive economic news....

Well I can tell you that I haven't heard much negative talk except the last 3-4 years.

For example, in Michigan, the construction industry has been devastated by the economy. Approx. 90% of the people I know in the construction industry are either out of work or hurting ALOT.

I have never in my life seen so many forclosure homes everywhere I drive.

I've never seen so many problems caused by high gas prices.

and let's be honest, the last thing we need is another 4 years of bush's policies which McCain would continue with.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by jfj123]

reply to post by jetxnet


I dont want to answer for him but I think bigunits point is that we are growing technically but its is because our debt hides the real numbers. If I had $10,000 in credit card debt and pay only the minimum payment each month, I could still save money and tell myself I'm doing fine because, I have savings and I'm still able to buy food and clothes and other products that give the impression that I'm experiencing economic growth. But this is lying to myself. I would still be sitting on $10,000 in debt. If this debt is unsecured(meaning I do not have the assets to cover it)and I was forced to pay the debt I owe all at once, I wouldnt be able to pay it and would probably have to file for bankruptcy.

While the OP may be right that technically by the definition of a recession, we are not currently in one. Its only because our economy is being propped up by debt and the printing of money. But to claim that there are no problems in the economy right now and that it is a conspiracy created by the left is very naive. You cannot deny the inbalance in the trade deficit, the huge state and federal debt, the outsourcing of large numbers of jobs, enormous amounts of consumer debt, declining wages, outrages energy costs, a burst housing bubble, more corporate bailouts in the last 8 years than in the previous 40years, the list goes on. There are big problems that are going to result in hardships for everyone in one way or another.

This housing crisis is essentially the same thing. Person buys a house for $200,000 with a variable interest. For the first 5 years they pay their payments and are able to save a little and buy food and clothes and cars, etc. But when their interest rate increases, they find themselves unable to save as much each month, then at some point they cant save anything and now they are having problems paying bills. So at some point they cant pay their bills because their mortgage payment has gone up so much and the increased cost of fuel and other goods. So they decide to sell their home, but they are not the only ones in this situation, so when they attempt to sell their home, they are unable because the current market is flooded with houses. So in order to sell it they have to drop the price below what they owe. Now they are in a position where there debt has outpaced their assets and they are bankrupt.

At no point was this fictional person experiencing economic growth. As long as you have debt, you are not growing economically. It may appear that way but its not true. That is why banks will use debt/income ratio for evaluation. This is a more accurate calculation of someones economic status. I can make $1,000,000 a year but if I have $50,000,000 in debt, I am not growing economically.

Not everyone is yet experiencing hardships from this economy but many are. They are in a cycle of debt and it is happening much more than people realize. I know some of these people. I'm not saying they are not at fault but people do desperate things when they are in desperate situations. Paying off credit cards with another credit card, paying off debt with a second mortgage on a home that has now lost 20% of its value in 3 years.

The debt is hiding the true economic health of the economy and if you are going to ignore the debt and just look and growth, you are lying to yourself.

Can someone please tell me why we're having to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac then? If we're not in a recession why are banks closing? Have you seen Citifinancial stocks, they are done too and we're not in a recession? Maybe you need to watch less television and do some research online buddy.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Ah yes Jamie. There is a great liberal conspiracy at work here. Eleven percent unempoyment in Ohio alone. We are ALL malingerers.

Then stop malingering and get a job! Something is stopping you what is it?

Unemployment check? Cant work for less than...........

The jobs are there you have to be willing.

reply to post by jamie83


Unfortunately we have outsourced most of our manufacturing sector, so we do not have nearly the exports that we once had. Its hard to make money exporting products that we now import.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


True but aside from that the fast food industry seems to be doing just fine. The fact that everyone who is posting these comments have internet and power plus some form of computer is proving my theory.

People are making money maybe just not as much as they wish too.

Originally posted by jetxnet
Yes, Walmart has a Democrat CEO base.

Why do you think Hillary got the nickname 'HILLARY "WALMART" CLINTON'.

She helped Walmart get major funding and support.

Even Wal-Mart, the largest and arguably most powerful corporation in the country, is no match for the triangulation, pandering and obfuscation of Hillary Clinton. With Wal-Mart rating as public enemy number one among many liberals, progressives and just regular voters, Clinton is finding her past ties to Wal-Mart too hot to handle so, presto, over the side the Beast of Bentonville must go.

For those not in the know, Clinton served on Wal-Mart’s board for six years prior to her husband’s run for the presidency. She recently received $5,000 from Wal-Mart. I’ve raised the Wal-Mart relationship repeatedly in my current race against Clinton and it causes deep unease among voters. I believe it speaks to the incumbent’s close ties to abusive corporate power: her large corporate financial contributions, her support for so-called “free trade” (which is simply trade to benefit corporations) and her unwillingness to confront corporate power that denies every American, among other things, universal health insurance.

Source


I really wish you guys would do some research.

You as well. So Walmart is in the pocket of the Democrats but then they warn against voting for them. That doesnt make much sense. If seems to me if it came down to free trade for walmart vs. possible unions, they would allow the unions and side with the party that would maintain free trade, as FT would create much larger profit margins than having to pay more for workers.

Walmart

Originally posted by marg6043
Sorry to see that when it comes with debatable issues and reality of issues you can not argue with those that do not want to deny ignorance.

Pity.

Marg, my friend. You know how I feel about you, but on this one I think an old saying comes into play - if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

Some things the government says or does are indeed suspect. But not everything.

Originally posted by aravoth

I'm pretty far from a Democrat, and I'm not even close to liberal. I'm going to come back to this thread in a a month. Just to see what political talking points you are regurgitating then.

Heres the problem. If you come back to this thread as things further deteriorate the vast liberal conspiracy people will not show up. I argued this same argument about the housing crisis on this site in December. All sorts of people told me I was full of it and Im a doom and gloom mongorer. When I U2U the same people now they will not respond. The fact is things will continue to deteriorate but it will be longer than a month. This will happen over the next 3 to 6 months. From there we need to see real change in policy if we dont then get ready people. The trickle down theory does not work people. Its been tried twice once under Regan which only helped moderately and now and it has done nothing for the working class as I have shown. We need to get rid of income taxes for the middle working class. This to me is people who make less than $250k a year. Let the big corporate boys (who are benefiting the most right now from the recent tax breaks) pay the taxes until government decides they want to lower spending. Its only the ones with the big bucks that will be able to get the government to lower spending. With no income taxes for all you will see a thriving economy.

I like you am a no democrat or what we call republicans. I am a Ron Paul republican. The neo cons have hijacked them and I dont see them letting go anytime soon.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by mybigunit]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by mybigunit]

Originally posted by Elfworkz
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

True but aside from that the fast food industry seems to be doing just fine.

The fast food industry is doing ok so there's really no problem? Seriously? The fast food industry is doing well for a couple of reasons.
1. People must work more to make the same amount of money so they have less time for home meals.
2. Fast food is VERY cheap and filling.

The fact that everyone who is posting these comments have internet and power plus some form of computer is proving my theory.

I bet there are less people with internet access then 1 year ago based on economic changes.

People are making money maybe just not as much as they wish too.

There's a difference between not making as much money as they like (most people throughout history) and not making enough to get by.
Credit cards are being used now more then ever to pay for the basics, food, gas and shelter. Sure the bills are getting paid but we're going further and further into debt to pay them. Eventually that will hit bottom and then we'll really have a huge problem.

reply to post by jfj123


I thought the topic was are we in a recession or just lies?

­A recession is a prolonged period of time when a nation's economy is slowing down, or contracting. Such a slow-down is characterized by a number of different trends, including:

People buying less stuff - I'm sorry but a trip to any place selling consumables will prove this wrong. I typically use Walmart as my standard observation.

Decrease in factory production - Too a degree due to some layoffs but not that factories are completely shutting down. When Ford or Chevy goes under we can talk.

Growing unemployment - I'm not a analysis I can only base it on what I see. Looks to me not too bad. I could be wrong. I see no shortage of jobs in the Sunday paper.

Slump in personal income - Hmm, I dont see it. I eat really good so does my family. My kids babysit and get paid well over what I think they should.


An unhealthy stock market - True my stocks suck but its a market flux. It will come back unless we see a depression like 1929.

We may or may not be heading to another depression but right now? Nope sorry. When you go to walmart and its closed or your wondering how your going to feed your family I think its safe to say we have an issue. But just an hour ago I was in a overcrowded place watching people spend money while watching moderately over weight people driving a grocery car that look perfectly normal to me. If it comes due to credit cards and living beyond there means then they get what they deserve.

Housing is no different except for the people who bought into the lies because they cannot read a contract or understand the difference between fixed and viarable is.

Not trying to be mean its the truth. If anyone dooms america it will be those people who cannot manage there finances.

ok mate
when a company that is paid by the government to do graphs and figures then that company is going to do what it is told. its like you going to a marketing company and asking them to make out like you have not got your head in the sand like most ostrichs that make up the "no spin zone" .
now do you get my point?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Nope not following.

Try again please.