Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?

I want to dispel once and for all the ongoing lies being put out be liberals and being accepted as truth by the ill-informed and ignorant masses who have no idea what they are talking about.

For months liberals have talked about how the economy is in a recession, and some have even gone as far to say this is the worst recession in U.S. history and that it was brought on by George Bush.

HEEELLLLOOOO!

We are not in a recession. The most recent data for the 2nd quarter show the U.S. economy on pace for a 3.3% growth rate. A recession is defined as TWO consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have not even had ONE quarter of negative growth.

Real gross domestic product -- the output of goods and services produced by labor and property
located in the United States -- increased at an annual rate of 3.3 percent in the second quarter of 2008,
(that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to preliminary estimates released by the
Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 0.9 percent.

Source



stlouisfed.org...

Seriously, for a site whose motto is "Deny Ignorance" it is truly amazing to see the level of ignorance being displayed at times.

I'm just curious why this ignorance exists at all. Are people too lazy to educate themselves and would rather parrot talking points being spewed by ignoramuses?

Or do people just jump on any partisan talking point, not caring if it's true or not?

How much is the MSM to blame for this? How much is the Democratic party to blame for this due to it being an election year?

Just curious...




[edit on 31-8-2008 by jamie83]

reply to post by jamie83


Part of it is rabid partisanship, but part of it is also the fact that some areas of the country can be experiencing a recession while others are experiencing brisk economic growth. It may be that some are pushing the liberal line that all is woe and that we're all doomed should McCain win this election. And some of it is very likely a result of their own circumstances and experiences in an area of the country that is struggling economically.

For my part, I live in an area of the country that is in fact struggling economically. Of course, it has been for over a century, so its obviously kind of difficult to blame that on the Bush administration.

The Democratic Party takes all of the blame for liberal lies, they are Godless and treasoness. I watched Obama's acceptance speech, and he offered free kittens to all American's. He said the kittens never age and never poop and that every American would have one. Then these "raise the roof" people came out with kitten canons and started throwing them out to his fans. Irresponsible. And just more liberal lies. Kittens do poop, as they do age.

reply to post by jamie83


If you are trusting the Government manipulated GDP figures I guess I have nothing to add here but before I leave I can see that whatever knowledge of economics you have you never were told that the GDP formula was never intended to become the sole indicated of a nations economical health.

But our own govenrment had managed to do just that.

No wonder our nation is sinking so fast as people actually believe that we are doing peachy because the government has figures that tell you so.

Pity.

Read the local knews more often you may be due a big surprise.

No wonder our nation is sinking so fast as people actually believe that we are doing peachy because the government has figures that tell you so.

No, the question is what are YOU doing to help yourself and others have a better life.

Not what is the government telling you.

From the article,

The increase in real GDP in the second quarter primarily reflected positive contributions from exports, personal consumption expenditures (PCE), federal government spending, nonresidential structures, and state and local government spending that were partly offset by negative contributions from private inventory investment, residential fixed investment, and equipment and software. Imports, which are a subtraction in the calculation of GDP, decreased.

.

The biggest contributors to the GDP government figures is right now, the $93 billion in economic stimulus payments..

Guess what is over, this was to boost the economy to benefit the 2008 elections and to gear the population into believing that the Republican party and its links to the economic downfall of the nation would be candy coated.

Incomes drop sharply in July while spending slows

I guess the government manipulated GDP formula will not include this littler factor on employment and income.

The Commerce Department report Friday showed that consumer activity got off to a shaky start in the third quarter, raising new worries that the economy could falter in coming months due to rising unemployment, a continuing credit crisis and the deepest housing slump in decades.

Personal incomes fell by a bigger-than-expected 0.7 percent in July, the biggest drop in nearly three years, while consumer spending edged up a modest 0.2 percent, just one-third the 0.6 percent gain in June.

.

money.cnn.com...

Can Gross Domestic Product (GDP) Figures be Trusted?

The formula for the GDP,

GDP (Gross Domestic Product) The formula to calculate GDP is this:

GDP (Gross Domestic Product) =

Consumption + investment + government expenditure + net exports (exports minus imports) =

Wages + rents + interest + profits + non-income charges + net foreign factor income earned

But the GDP figure is vulnerable to "creative accounting":

yes is manipulated for government agendas.

The best way to manipulate the GDP is eliminating parts and components of the formula to accommodate for the flexibility of figures.

Activities vs sectors can increase or reduce outcomes.

The truth about Recession 2008

www.economyincrisis.org...

Don't allow the lies to take the best of you









[edit on 31-8-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043


The biggest contributors to the GDP government figures is right now is, the $93 billion in economic stimulus payments..

You really have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

Personal consumption for non-durable as of June 30, 2008 was $2.4 trillion dollars. Personal consumption of services was $6.1 trillion dollars. Personal income was $12.1 trillion dollars. You might want to start using sources other than your liberal MSM and Dem talking heads.

Here, this might help put things in perspective. This is a graph of GDP:



Notice how it's pretty much moving linearly, and contrary to your claims, Bush hasn't done a thing to slow it down.

But you also claim GDP is not the only economic indicator. You're right. So I've included several others.

























Are you really serious that you think there's been a bi-partisan conspiracy within the Federal Reserve over the last 40 years to make people believe life is better than it really is?

This is delusional thinking.

Get outside and look around. The economy is thriving. The MSM would have you believe we're in the worst economy since 1929. We're not.

Take special note of how the government receipts (taxes paid into the government) have skyrocketed after Bush and Congress cut the tax rates.

Also not how retail sales, inventories, employment, production, compensation for employees, and just about everything else is growing in the Bush years.

There is no recession except in the hopes and dreams of the liberals who want to discredit Bush.

stlouisfed.org...

[edit on 31-8-2008 by jamie83]

Sorry to see that when it comes with debatable issues and reality of issues you can not argue with those that do not want to deny ignorance.

Pity.

Unless these charts are weighted to account for increasing US population, which they do not appear to be, they are largely useless for determining the health of the economy.

More people = more spending
More people = more inventory
etc.

Further, these charts do not account for the degree of personal debt, or the rate of bankruptcies, which are also indicators of economic health, and are both on the rise in the US.

MAAN, I'm afraid...

Please,

There is no recession, go look at the mall or Walmart. Better yet take a trip to Home Depot or LOWES. Do you see people making home improvements with no money? All on credit yeah I see your point. Not really.

When I see people not shopping or driving I say we are in a recession. When I see people eating more dry foods and conserving I will believe.

When I see no RVs on the road or hummers I may start believing......

All hype thats it just like gas prices. Everyone is blaming supply and demand but it's not. Think about it when your eating dinner tonight. Dont choke on your ordered out pizza!

Originally posted by marg6043
Sorry to see that when it comes with debatable issues and reality of issues you can not argue with those that do not want to deny ignorance.

Pity.

I'd say you're self-projecting again.

Why not try denying some of your own ignorance and study the data, how it's collected, how it's used, etc.?

This data is used by every major investment house on the planet and yet you seem to have discovered from your humble home in Georgia that this data is incorrect.

Perhaps you should call up Goldman Sachs an apply for a job as an analyst with them. You could point out to them where the data is wrong and they will pay you millions of dollars. Seriously.

On the other hand, it was YOU who claimed the U.S. is in the worst recession in history and it's caused by Bush. And it was YOU who provided ZERO evidence of this claim, only liberal rantings that you probably heard on MSNBC or gleaned from CNN's "recession watch" web site.

And you have the audacity to accuse anybody of being ignorant?

Wow....

ATS used to be much better than this.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
Unless these charts are weighted to account for increasing US population, which they do not appear to be, they are largely useless for determining the health of the economy.

More people = more spending
More people = more inventory
etc.

Further, these charts do not account for the degree of personal debt, or the rate of bankruptcies, which are also indicators of economic health, and are both on the rise in the US.

If you go to the source site you can find all the data you are seeking rather than incorrectly speculate and come to false conclusions about the dire situation we are in.

And as a side note, the reason GDP growth is measured in percentage is to take into account your observation that the raw numbers need to be put in context.

GDP GROWTH was +3.3% for the quarter ending June 30, 2008.

Get it? GROWTH?

A recession is when the GDP declines.

No metrics show any decline in GDP.

And if you look at the charts, declines are cyclical anyway. At some point there will be a retraction, and it won't be the POTUS fault no matter who is in office at the time.

Jamie have you been to walmart recently? What are you eating tonight? I doubt it's a bowl of rice or bread. If it is my apologizes I am wrong.

But I believe I'm right because you have power, internet and seem educated enough to have TV.

Where is this recession? Why are you bashing others who have charts to back it up? Why even bother?

Hey, whats for dinner in your house for this terrible recession?

My bad scrolled too fast that was for skeptic not Jamie.

With you brother.

Originally posted by Elfworkz
Please,

There is no recession, go look at the mall or Walmart. Better yet take a trip to Home Depot or LOWES. Do you see people making home improvements with no money? All on credit yeah I see your point. Not really.

When I see people not shopping or driving I say we are in a recession. When I see people eating more dry foods and conserving I will believe.

When I see no RVs on the road or hummers I may start believing......

All hype thats it just like gas prices. Everyone is blaming supply and demand but it's not. Think about it when your eating dinner tonight. Dont choke on your ordered out pizza!

Great points!

And if people are so secluded and out of touch that they can't drive to the local Home Depot themselves, here's an even easier way to see what's going on.

Just go to any city's live traffic web cams everyday and looks at the tens of thousands of people sitting in traffic on there way to and from work everyday.

Take note that almost everybody is driving a car less than 5 years old, and more often than not they're riding alone.

Drive around your own neighborhood and see on average how many cars people own, how many computers, how each of their kids has their own cell phone, how they probably have multiple gaming units, how they don't shop at Goodwill but instead shop at The Gap.

I have been delivering food to poor inner city families for years and it's a rarity when a family has less than TWO color tvs and cable. The poorest of the poor have cell phones. Most have air conditioning units. Almost all have credit cards given to them by the state that they use to buy Mountain Dew and Doritos at the grocery store.

The sad part is that people are buying into the brainwashing that things are horrible so that the party out of power can possibly gain power. That's all it comes down to -political power and how to manipulate the masses to get that power.

reply to post by jamie83


Put it like this:

1925 you have $10,000 .. lot of dough back then eh?

2008 you have 1,000,000 dollars. Lot of dough eh? But 10k is nothing, chump change.. might spend that in a week.

Your graph does not calculate inflation, and decreasing value of an individual dollar.

So is one billion dollars in 1925 worth the same as one billion in 2008?

Who is ignorant now?

Originally posted by Rockpuck.


Who is ignorant now?

Who is ignorant now? Still you.

The U.S. economy is growing, not shrinking.

I gave you the link to the source data. Perhaps you could do your own research to prove your point rather than expect me to do it for you.

But to address the point you raised about inflation, it's taken into account in the data.

But what's not taken into account is the quality of the material goods, and the resulting quality of life those goods produce now.

A car from 1925 is nothing like a car now.
We now have computers for under $300.
Everybody has their own cell phones.
Ordinary homes today are like mansions of 100 years ago.
Medical care is extraordinarily advanced.

I could go on and on with example after example.

The point is, you can't simply look at the inflation numbers without comparing the value of the goods your money can buy today. But like I said, even taking inflation into account, the economy is still growing, investments are still growing, savings is still growing.

Why?

Because advances in technology have allowed production to cost less and be more efficient.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I realized a while back from where Jamie was coming from on its views of the economy and to tell you the true at that point I decided no to pursue the issue.

Rockpunk,

You have internet?

Cell Phone?

Cable?

Who is ignorant now buddy. I bet you have a nice vehicle too with A/C

Easy on the name calling, Jamie is correct on this one IMHO.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

I realized a while back from where Jamie was coming from on its views of the economy and to tell you the true at that point I decided no to pursue the issue.

Of course you wouldn't pursue the issue because that would involve actually educating yourself with facts that contradict your claim that this is the worst recession in the history of the U.S.

As I've shown, your statement is idiotic by any measure.

Please provide ANY data that shows the U.S. is in a recession. I mean ANY data, even from DailyKos for God's sake.

Otherwise you might be better off doing just a tiny bit of research before you embarrass yourself further.