Economy in Recession? More Liberal Lies?

I have to throw in one more bone on this thread.For those that are following the charts and info that comes from the federal reserve I ask you to please do some serious research on the federal reserve.I wish all would do research for themselves on the federal reserve.I believe it to be folly to trust in charts and figures without finding out more of what the federal is.Recession or no recession these guys are not good at all.For those who wont research here are a few quotes from a couple of people you might remember hearing of:

IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
President, Thomas Jefferson


"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance."
James Madison


"The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest."
Abraham Lincoln


"You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out... If people only understood the rank injustice of the money and banking system, there would be a revolution by morning."
Andrew Jackson


"I have unwittingly ruined my country… We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
President, Woodrow Wilson

"The dollar represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve Banks create money out of thin air to buy Government Bonds from the U.S. Treasury...[thus creating] out of nothing a...debt which the American people are obliged to pay with interest."
Congressman, Wright Patman

Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. 1913: "When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill."

FDR wrote: "The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."

Henry Ford said: "It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

Ten days before his assassination, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy allegedly said: "The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."

To start some research look here: www.apfn.org...

I hope this will give you just a wee bit of insight on the federal reserve who you trust for your facts and figures.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Actually I lost count on how many majors he have.

Clearly this is evidence not to trust an engineer with your finances!

In all seriousness, the OP and his sidekicks are taking Government numbers and saying thus:

"The Gov says this, so it is true.. and any information to go against Gov numbers is 'juvenile' because I don't know how the fed got the numbers they have so I cannot compare the two. So, as a true Conservative and Patriot I must accept what my Government says is true. I mean, the Government cannot make up numbers, commit fraud, lie, cheat, abuse, or anything of the sort.. it's just unethical and we all know.. the Government is true and honest to it's word!!"

Now, we the sensible ones, regardless of party lines (some here are Democrats, some are Republicans, a few of us are Libertarians and so on and so forth) know that the Government should never be trusted, should always be tested and we should only accept independent unbiased studies when it comes to influential data!

If you do not know how the Gov comes up with it's GDP or CPI calculation, you have no right coming in here and insulting those who at the very least know what they are talking about. Get an education, research the topic, come back and prove to me the Government numbers are correct. Because God damnit the Federal Government doesn't get a free pass with me, they can tell me the sky is purple and elephants can fly but that doesn't mean it's true.

Sorry I don't have time to read thru the whole thread. Somebody probably already pointed this out, but I love how on the first page the OP posted that spectacular graph of the Consumer Price Index. That's a commonly used measure of INFLATION. There might be a clue there. A deliciously ironic one, too.

We have had a recession since the beginning of the Nixon war on drugs and the war on cancer. I would rather have 25 Steve Jobs on '___' than one. We can do better, we can grow and create faster, saying we can't would be similar to saying we don't have enough brain cells to make sense of anything. We need new markets. end prohibition. End all this wasted time and energy on educating people in disabling professions such as Psychology, etc. Shrink the size of government, take the government subsidy monopolies out of commission. Maybe after increasing freedom we will do even better. The old idea of social order being constructed by the state simply doesn't make any sense. One person as a president cannot represent all Americans anymore than I can represent all voices o nthis messege board. Create a national voting system based upon electronic submission via networks. These companies that want to restrict bandwith are morons, we need companies that have vision for the future, people should walk with their money. These people that want to restrict bandwith or choice and centralize everything might be the worst thing that would ever happen in this country. You can't manage a natural ecosystem it manages you and that ends up being far more chaotic and productive then a top down system. Stopping the flow of information by choking the flow will only result in other avenues being created and other competitors coming onto the scene. No on has a right to stop this thing to maintain their quaint superstitious nonesense anymore than some religious throwback has a right to bomb a building. The threats to us come from our own brains and our own mental limitations.

reply to post by jamie83


You claim that the govt does not adjust the number to make them look better than they are but you have not addressed my information about the unemployment rate.

The govt will tell you exactly what they are measuring and it clearly leaves out huge numbers of people that are unemployed. So how is the unemployment rate accurate if it leaves out large numbers of people that are unemployed?

Please answer this.

i would like to add, that growth for the GDP means nothing for the majority of americans. Since the 70's the GDP has doubled, and at the same time, the purchasing power of the average american worker has declined. So, yes, our corporate leaders, our elite 1% may have an increase every year, however for the majority of americans, yes, there is less money, and yes, it doesnt go as far. Anyone who cant see this, just look at the tent cities popping up in cali and nevada, just look at the climbing prices of food and water, all things costs have shot up, and can anyone here say their salary has increased apace?

See my previous post. Understand the definition of a Recession, and how the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) determines if we are in one. GDP is merely an indicator and not the measurement.

Recessions are not determined by how "I" feel when I buy gas, a new shirt, or whether "I" was fired from my job. It's a macro look at a number of factors that include GDP, job-growth performance, and others.

All indications are that we are in a U-shaped recession that began in the first quarter of this year, although GDP contracted in the 4th quarter of last year.

from rgemonitor.com

1. This will be the most severe U.S. recession in decades with the U.S. consumer being on the ropes and faltering big time as soon as the temporary effect of the tax rebates will fade out by mid-summer (August). This U.S. consumer is shopped out, saving less, debt burdened and being hammered by falling home prices, falling equity prices, falling jobs and incomes, rising inflation and rising oil and energy prices.
   
   
2. This will be a long, ugly and nasty U-shaped recession lasting at least 12 months and more likely 18 months, not the mild 6 month V-shaped recession that the delusional consensus expects. While an L-shaped decade long economic stagnation is unlikely the recovery of the economy from this recession will be weak as the financial crisis and serious macro imbalances will lead to sub-par (below trend) economic growth for years to come.
   
   
3. The US recession has already started in Q1 of 2008 based on the five indicators tracked by the NBER. The Q2 rebound is only driven by the temporary tax rebates and GDP growth will slip into negative territory from Q3 2008 until at least Q2 of 2009.
   

--See rgemonitor.com for all of the analysis, but there is no doubt at this point that we are in a Recession. Don't be fooled by the temporary affects of the artificial bump of the stimulus checks. It's temporary.

To the OP.

Dow off over 300, but who cares, it's only 30 companies. The S&P 500 is off more than 35. That's the whole market. Our unemployment numbers come out tomorrow, and China just admitted to debasing it's own currency to prop up the Dollar so the American companies they purchased won't go under. Any bets on where we are at by Christmas?

Before you started this thread, you should have learned about Charting, and technical stock analysis. Because if you had, you would have seen a very interesting pattern emerge in the S&P 500 between August of 06, and August of 08. Not only would you have seen it, but you would also know what it predicts, with 90% accuracy. So, as promised, I'm going to keep coming back here and ripping this thread to pieces over the next few months.

I look forward to listening to regurgitated talk radio in response to what I say.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by aravoth]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by aravoth]

Originally posted by aravoth
To the OP.

Dow off over 300, but who cares, it's only 30 companies. The S&P 500 is off more than 35. That's the whole market. Our unemployment numbers come out tomorrow, and China just admitted to debasing it's own currency to prop up the Dollar so the American companies they purchased won't go under. Any bets on where we are at by Christmas?

Before you started this thread, you should have learned about Charting, and technical stock analysis. Because if you had, you would have seen a very interesting pattern emerge in the S&P 500 between August of 06, and August of 08. Not only would you have seen it, but you would also know what it predicts, with 90% accuracy. So, as promised, I'm going to keep coming back here and ripping this thread to pieces over the next few months.

I look forward to listening to regurgitated talk radio in response to what I say.

[edit on 4-9-2008 by aravoth]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by aravoth]

Ill be right here with you. The sad thing is the Op and his minions will not be here. They will pretend the thread does not exist. Ill be here though. Ive said it many times before the only reason we are not bankrupt is because of China and others and after this whole ordeal I wouldnt look to China to bail us out anymore. Only a government shill would have the gonads to come out and say that this is a liberal conspiracy. But we all have the right to our opinion for sure but I have a feeling this thread was made to just tick some people off instead of proving real points.

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by marg6043


The biggest contributors to the GDP government figures is right now is, the $93 billion in economic stimulus payments..

You really have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

Personal consumption for non-durable as of June 30, 2008 was $2.4 trillion dollars. Personal consumption of services was $6.1 trillion dollars. Personal income was $12.1 trillion dollars. You might want to start using sources other than your liberal MSM and Dem talking heads.

Here, this might help put things in perspective. This is a graph of GDP:



[edit on 31-8-2008 by jamie83]

If you are going to produce charts about economics at least have the sense to normalise them. In other words adjust those that show money by the rate of inflation and those that show population adjust for changes in population size. Some need two adjustments.

In 1800 £1000 would have been a kings ransom and a mere blip on your charts.

Or are you purposely showing misleading charts?

Hmm loss of 85k jobs and unemployment is 6.1%. Wow for this being a big conspiracy those are some pretty bad numbers. On top of this these arent even still the true numbers. The real numbers puts us in at around 10% unemployment. I mean 600k jobs lost so far this year? Liberal conspiracy?

Wow, is all I can say. Just wow. The ignorance here is overwelming. Yeah, we may not be scrouging for food in the streets, but there most definitely is a recession going on. You know how I know? Because I am feeling it! No chart can explain away what I'm feeling. I just bought a loaf of bread for $4.50. And I searched for all the sales in the market yesterday, but they were quite pitiful, I decided to buy less and just buy exactly what I need and nothing frivolous. I now carpool and so does my husband, and the house across the street from me has been for sale and empty for 2 years. (same with one down the street). I am thinking of taking a second job. My kids got the bare minimum to start school by last years standards, I could go on. Yes, we're not starving, but we are in a recession. By the way, this site has changed in the last couple of months. Stupid opinion pieces that do not get to the heart of real issues. And where are all the old posters? Now we just have to listen to radicals who seem to just want to start fights. Come on, aren't we here supposed to be on the same team in general? It's an insult to our intelligence. I'm thinking most of the posters must work for a cause or organization, there's no other explanation.

Hi Folks ,I am not so sure what to believe? are You? all I know is that We as Human being`s, especially the kind and loving ones ,need to be made aware ,that it is time to prepare for the worst, floods, famines, thirst, hunger, fire etc.... this world has little time, Please God may our saviour be made known to us in what ever form. And may He guide us in the next steps, battles etc to take. I am not some Jesus freak, I am a Father who Knows that mankind is about to become extinct! Because an Extinction Level Event is about to happen , and soon! Please Mankind ,I am not saying this is going to happen within the next week, or Months, even Years! But lets not get complacent Let us sort our lives out now!

reply to post by jetxnet


I agree with you that GDP grew at 3.4%. I just think looking at GDP in real(after inflation) terms is a much more meaningful exercise. In REAL terms we are ina recession. If you made, let's say, every beverage $1,000/oz. GDP would soar as well. It wouldn't mean that the economy was strong. It just means everyone would be broke trying not to die of thirst.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity


I agree with you that GDP grew at 3.4%. I just think looking at GDP in real(after inflation) terms is a much more meaningful exercise. In REAL terms we are ina recession.

Do you have any data to support this claim?

Otherwise it seems like you're just making stuff up to suit your argument.

reply to post by jamie83


"Jobless Rate Jumps to Five-Year High of 6.1%."

Again, liberal lies taken from your neocon bastion DRUDGE

drudgereport.com

Coloradojens

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity


I agree with you that GDP grew at 3.4%. I just think looking at GDP in real(after inflation) terms is a much more meaningful exercise. In REAL terms we are ina recession.

Do you have any data to support this claim?

Otherwise it seems like you're just making stuff up to suit your argument.

Do you have any evidence for your claims?

I am still waiting for you to prove the government numbers are correct.....

I won't hold my breath though. I could have a more in depth conversation about economics with my big toe.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by jamie83

 

"Jobless Rate Jumps to Five-Year High of 6.1%."

Yes. The jobless rate is at 6.1%. After two consecutive quarters of negative growth we will be in a recession.

Which is it?

1. Do you not understand the definition of a recession?

OR

2. Do you understand the definition of a recession and think the definition should be changed?

Hey Jamie, the news just reported increasing jobless claims. In the same report it stated more than 85,000,000 job losses this quarter. That's a new report since you started this thread. If we are in a growth period as you state, the reports aren't showing it.

reply to post by jamie83


Five year high. like this example:

a) 2003 unemployment rate: 3.4%
b) 2004 unemployment rate: 3.3%
c) 2005 unemployment rate: 4.4%
d) 2006 unemployment rate: 4.2%
e) 2007 unemployment rate: 4.9%
f) 2008 unemployment rate: ?? (currently 6.1%)

I guess if you want to fall on the ole' semantics argument you'd be right.
What is your point? Liberals lie about the semantics of our crumbling ecomomy?

ColoradoJens