In Its Image. Computer That might prevent death in the future!

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by spitefulgod

 

Not for me, I've virtually experienced a lot, I think I'll probably be living till 200 though, I don't rally want to however.
Once you get to be my age (23) the world is just a big ball of dirt and mud hanging out in space, well that's what it's like for me, emotions aside at least, emotionally, I'm still waiting to be able to experience true happiness and love from another person.

-Jimmy

WhoooooEEEEEEE!, a full twenty-three years y'say?
Well shoot, you've saw all there is to see, and will ever be to see!
What's the sense in continuing on, you've reach the ripe old age of twenty-three!
I'm sure anyone you've ever loved or known is dead and gone by now!

You won't live to be two-hundred.
Unless some sort of, freak medical advancement arises- And you happen to have the undoubtedly huge sum of money it involves to undergo, you won't be living to be two-hundred years old.

Maybe if you spent less time "Virtually" experiencing all there is to see, and started living in the real world (The one where, you don't know why we fear death for certain, and, where you won't live to be two-hundred.) I'm sure you would find someone, somewhere willing to love you.

reply to post by spitefulgod


I think human beings are programmed too, in a sense. We are programmed either by god or by nature, the outcome of evolution. I believe the latter, but it's got to be one or the other.

Some would say that god gave us the gift of free will, so we are not programmed. But in a sense, a neural net is given a kind of free will. The programmer designs the neural net, but the weighting and connections of the neurons are programmed by the neural net itself, and the human programmer cannot really predict how it will arrange itself.

Changing the subject a little bit... another technique is computer programs that are programmed to evolve and write new code . A human programmer programs the rules by which the code evolves, but he cannot precisely predict how it will evolve. Computer scientists look at the evolved code and try to reverse-engineer it, and figure out why it works, but it works in such strange and unintuitive ways that they often cannot understand it.

If the human programmer could predict the behavior of a neural net or evolved program, that would defeat the purpose of those techniques. The whole point is to give the computer a sort of "free will". If he just wanted an automoton, that would be much easier to program in a conventional way.



[edit on 1-9-2008 by Distractions4Nothing]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Distractions4Nothing]

Originally posted by jephers0n
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

 

Very nice, Intelligent reply. I agree that many people clearly overlooked these statements, in context of the video. Good post, anonymous. Good post.

I agree. You def.took the initiative to do your own research and really analyze what the video was saying. Thats exactly why I love this tread. Most of us are watching the video, researching it, then drawing their own conclusions. I always tell people not to take my word for it, but to do their own research and make an educated analysis of the topic at hand. Great posts Anonymous Poster!!

Personally, I don't doubt the fact that this machine has the capability to change the way we live in the future. I don't think I would want to see it though. I would not feel comfortable with an I-Robot world where robots are walking around just like humans, nor would I want to live in Cyberspace. But, like someone had posted earlier, who's to say we are not there already. I doubt everything but dismiss nothing.

This is what will eventually happen when you merge conciousness with a machine, tread lightly into dark paths my friends. Lol.









Great movie, a cult classic. In all seriousness though, I don't feel entirely comfortable letting a machine decide what is best for humanity, there should be limitations, but even then its not a 100% certainty that a conscious machine wouldnt find a way around its limitations. Frightening, actually.


And here's a link if my vid didn't embed. Bomb 20 has some issues

I'm probably saying what others already have here. This immortality "site"
is similar to the matrix story among others and probably isn't alone in it's concept.

Having allegedly been an abductee, I recall this ability in transference one of their basic forms of immortality and space travel.

This has been used in various science fiction programs and movies. It shouldn't take much for us to make this real with a bump from reverse engineered alien technologies. Some have mentioned us as vessels or containers. The ethereal energy we are could probably be transferred and overwritten as a chip or a slave part of some machine.

Some might say: what good is immortality just to spend eternity in servitude?

The so called angels we've heard of may very well be the same as these machines that were once biological beings. These transference experiments are probably already done with various ethereal life forms in developmental stages such as a flea and eventually a mouse. Imagine a mouse having it's energy transferred into a a roboticv or android mouse and acting as if it was still in it's body. Our science fiction has been known to become science fact. This may be due to this being part of our DNA's memory?

In theory these same ethereal energies could be broken down and or cloned.

Some theories may mention that these immortal probes may have brought our DNA here.

Combine some of these threads as a collection of some global conspiracy and program to reduce the worlds overpopulation. It's not really death, it's putting us to sleep and waking up in a "Heavenly" body? (on earth as it is in heaven?)

It also reminds me of the collective Borg from Star Trek.

The returning beast program may be some cyclical event such the coming 2012 alignment. The rapture as if saving us from a world of sufferng by taking us out of our bodies just beofre it happens?

Beam me up Scotty?

Originally posted by GrayFox

The simple fact it doesn't include death is an obvious sign that it's not actual intelligence.

Any proof of this? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, but there just might not be a way to prove that if it's true.

Sure. I came to this conclusion while trying to figure out how the AI would tell the difference between fact and fiction. And also how it would be able to overcome anything it might rely on as truth when it was false.

How do we intelligently decide fact from fiction? Do we look at what makes sense? If we do that, then what makes sense is based on already accepted truths. Do we put credibility on certain sources? And what if the entire intelligence is based and built on false information? How are you going to be able to get rid of those falsehoods?

I came to the conclusion of death. But also at the same time many many different lives(I would think of them as perspectives) going at different times. The other perspectives are there to feed the new perspective which doesn't have the deep falsehoods and can start fresh.

So really no different than what we have with mankind. You are born into this world, you trust your parents as the source of information. As you get older, you are able to get rid of some falsehoods, and some you don't. You eventually have kids and pass on that information and they on their fresh minds are not subject to all the falsehoods you were.

But you see, all these perspectives are really all still just 1 intelligence, and each life represents a unique perspective/experience.

Hope that makes sense. It's not all that easy to explain because it's based on alot of other things I figured out while trying to come up with the logic behind AI. But I could not find any way of getting rid of any deep down false beliefs.

reply to post by Springheel Jack


Thanks for the video, old films are sooo cheesy, I believe the Docs Creativity machine created the crud backing track (although he's contractually obliged not to take credit), although since then it has evolved to a level where the beat is so fast that we just hear it as an annoying hiss.

[edit on 1/9/2008 by spitefulgod]

reply to post by KaginD


Hey KaginD, great post and I think it's about time we've pondered this question... Now, sharing a personal story with you about a dream I had when in the 11th grade and taking my first two days of computer science in high school, I had a dream that scared the living hell out of me.. It showed me AI and it showed me where we end up in 30 years (from then )(1985) and I have to say this vision was strong enough for me to walk into my computer science lab, take all my books, and turn them in and tell me teacher that I was transferring to another class.. I wasn't afraid to learn this at all, matter of fact I went into this class jumping in with both feet because I wanted to learn all that I could about computers, but this dream, (and yes, it was Very apocalyptic) scared the living hell out of me and I saw the end of Man's existence in that dream and I've re-lived that dream several times since the night it happened but I still trudge on everyday, turning on my computer , knowing that it comes closer every day that I get up.. Whether it happens or not, I do not know, but I'll just say that it (the dream) was convincing enough for me to take notice, and quit that class immediately.. Anyway, I hope and pray that it is used for good, and many people have pondered that it would out learn us and be too difficult for us to learn from it, but I bet you there will be a way to plug our biological brains right into it, so we can learn from it lightning fast...Kind of like the way we were supposed to download anything we wanted to learn right into our brains in the Matrix..Sure makes you wonder...Jamai_vu2012

[edit on 9/1/2008 by Jamai_vu2012]

I told you to keep your mouth shut about that dream, don't make me come back [in time] there, hunt you down and shut that flabby meat sack mouth of yours!!!!

[edit on 1/9/2008 by spitefulgod]

reply to post by spitefulgod


Funny you should mention a quote from a television show, as I had for a moment thought about going back and editing my response to add a clip that seemed relevant. Ghost in the Shell, the part in which Motoko merges with Project 2501 - the merging of a human mind with that of an intelligent machine:


(Edited: Found a shorter clip that cuts out the nudity of the full clip. There's still a little bit, but it's short and tasteful. Just a warning)

As for living to see the advent of immortality, I guess that would depend on how old you are now. Many in the transhumanist movement are convinced that it's going to be soon and are hoping to achieve this goal within their lifetimes (some of them are in their 50's to 70's). It's hard to predict the future of technology in certain cases, however we are beginning to not just speculate - but to see - the power of exponential trends in motion. As computing power continues to double every 18 months, and as the rate of technological discovery continues to increase, we'll only see paradigm shifts coming more and more frequently. It took 60 years for computers to progress to this point, and the rate of progression in the maturation of emerging technologies will be even less due to the continual and rapid increase in computing power. Nanotechnology, AI, and Genetic Engineering/Stem Cells are still all very immature fields of study, but they all have the power to change the world in unpredictable ways - and every bit as profoundly as the computer has.

You don't have to necessarily live long enough to see immortality being developed - you only have to live long enough for life extension technologies (medicine, prosthetics, etc) advance to the point where the extra time they add on to your life is greater than the rate of technological change. You are currently expected to live around 80+ years. In 20 years, it's expected that we'll be living to 100+. 20 years after that, 150+. If you can live to 150, then I have no doubt that we'll then have the technology to allow humans to live forever - be it in the physical world, a cyberspace emulation of the real world, or a mixture of the two.

I think it's amazing. For time immemorial, mankind has told stories and fables about life after death. About a celestial sphere in which souls mingle after they depart the physical world - and perhaps return to Earth in a new body to live a new life in an attempt to correct the mistakes of their past lives or experience new sensations. For the first time in human history, we are close enough to that dream to actually envision it becoming reality - and perhaps even live long enough to see that dream come to fruition.

In regards to whether or not it will be beneficial for life to now become immortal through our tinkering, I would say that would have to depend on how we go about it. Certainly the issues with natural resources would need to be resolved, but at least some of that can be overcome by the aforementioned "Earth Timeshare" deal where you will exist primarily in cyberspace and merely take turns in the real world. At least, this will have to be the way it goes until we can travel the stars with ease and colonize new homes. (This is what will guarantee our species, or at least our lineage's immortality - since life on Earth is still suspect to rare but cataclysmic disasters of global proportions)

As for death's role in increasing variation via selection, this is no longer be a major issue now that we are beginning to unlock the programing behind the human genetic code. We will soon be able to modify ourselves far faster than nature can currently keep up with, so there is a much lower risk of a disease or disorder propagating unchecked through a system of similar copies with ease. In the natural world, at any rate. I would suspect, however, that this process will still continue in some form inside of cyberspace. An "evolution", if you will, of currently existing issues such as viruses, malware, spyware, hacking, etc.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by Lasheic]

Did i here that correctly? At about 15mins 20sec did he say man descended from apes.

reply to post by homeskillet

i always wonder if people are right when they state that things arent "natural" or they arent "right". it almost seems logical to me that whatever IS has naturally arrived here right or wrong. whether its some toxic chemical, a cloned animal or even a computer that can learn and make decisions. why can bees create honey but humans cant naturally create technology? im sure if bees had the capability to create new tools to help expand indefinitely they would. so everything we have created are just tools (from ideas)for us to survive and flourish. right or wrong (which are only concepts we have made in our minds anyway). to me computers and AI seem like a natural progression.

I agree. Reminds me of a saying. "If the body is an expression of DNA, then what the body creates can also be considered an expression of DNA." Could it be then that we are fortunate enough to be witnessing a grand paradigm shift in nature from DNA based life to synthetic life, a natural progression that replaces the extremely slow and in-efficient natural evolution to a faster digital evolution? We are not the drivers of this phenomena, but merely the mules doing the footwork for a natural progression of life?

Even if the fantasy "Terminator" scenario were to come true, should we morn our species passing or rejoice in our accomplishment of the biggest hurdle to the most very basic drive for all life - ensuring the future survival of life on Earth?

reply to post by kcfusion


maybe they are building the "Beast" like the mark of the beast in the bible? It says the beast is alive in the end days!

reply to post by KaginD


HORSEHOCKEY.

Synapses and neurons leave out one inportant item...soul.

When we think we are God he has a tendancy to get angry.

This is a great thread. The video is amazing, and the idea that we could beat or cheat death is unreal. Thanks for the story..Still watching video for 3rd time! S&F

all this stuff sounds fantastic and interessting...but if i think about it...it sounds more like a horrorstory to me

i see robocops running around killing me for smoking

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
i have been reading this thread and i am forced to conclude that having your conciousness run in a machine is potentially a very bad idea. Who is to say that you won't have spam being pumped into your mind all day and night, who is to say that the computer won't get hacked and a virus comes in and makes your mind experience literal hell for eternity, what if the plug is pulled or some cosmic event causes a subroutine malfunction where the minds are trapped?

I see your point. But what if war breaks out tomorrow? What if people get hit by cars? What if someone dies in a drive-by shooting? What if someone dies of pneumonia? What if someone dies in an earthquake? Humanity deals with risks everyday as it is.... it can't be helped. There will always be some risks.

If people were uploaded to computers, attacking someone with a virus could be like assaulting someone in real life. There would be a lot more law enforcement dedicated to cyber crimes. People would be less likely to create viruses and such. Also, the person-in-cyberspace would probably have some kind of cyber immune system or something like that. A common computer virus could be like a flea or gnat.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by GrayFox]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I believe so, yes. He would be correct in this as well. Humans are a great ape species, and we share a common ancestor with our closest great ape relatives.



crmanager
------------

Synapses and neurons leave out one inportant item...soul.

How can you be sure that a "soul" even exists? How does it interact with the brain? How does the brain feed back this interaction? Where are the high resolution brain scans and MRI's which exhibit this behavior? Further, what properties of brain cells make them uniquely receptive to "souls", in a manner in which a machine cannot possibly emulate, simulate, or replace? The eyes are so easily fooled by illusion, yet why is it that so many hold to the assumption that the "heart" cannot be?

By the way, I do believe in the existence of a soul, and possibly life after death. However calling the OP's video "horsehockey" because of a personal belief which nobody in the entirety of the human experience has thus far been able to substantiate is uncalled for.

When we think we are God he has a tendancy to get angry.

Then god needs to get the hell over it already. If he truly created us in his image, and gave us free will to carry out our desires, then just what the @#$! did he think would happen?

Be that the case, then your god is awfully shortsighted.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Lasheic]

Consciousness is nothing more than white noise huh? I'm sure that Mr. White noise is going to double check that his name is listed as the guy who thought of this theory in the first place.

This is little more than a skinner box in an Ipod shell.

I read alot of SciFi and this really doesnt suprise me, by this I mean transferring a human consciousness into a machine. I have seen this concept on many different levels over and over in the SciFi universe. Just recently when I read Alistair Reynold's "Revelation Space". In this novel humanity has broken into differing populations based on beliefs and technology. One of these was a group of humans that used technology to extend their lives as well as uploading their individual selves into a matrix in order to live forever, but in the process the living could enter the matrix and visit with their dead, or talk to them whenever they needed advice.

I find it surprising that there is already the attempt to do this, but I don't find it surprising that we are trying to "Jump the Shark" that is Death. We are wily creatures, if we think we can, we will try.

I believe its just another step in, I don't want to say evolution, but instead maybe call it a paradigm shift. I think we can definitely do this. but is it right to? I think thats as personal a decision as choosing who you want to marry or what toothpaste you buy. Its subjective. Some people will call it heresy, some will call it Shangri La. Whatever it is, it's definitely worth our effort.