In Its Image. Computer That might prevent death in the future!

So, the creativity machine created 11,000 songs?
By generalizing the overall beat and rhythm of the songs?
It produced songs before those eleven thousand though? And then, decided, which were better than others- Then used those that were deemed acceptable to further create more?

I don't know if I understood it all- A lot of it was over my head, but I'm certainly trying to grasp it.

The creativity machine takes in information, develops ideas, then decides which are poor and which are good, on its own?

If someone could explain this a bit more on here, it'd be appreciated.

But as for A.I- Won't it always be bound by it's original programming?
I mean, it isn't just born like we are.

But then, we're more or less programmed ourselves, aren't we?
To, for the most part, accept the world around us?

How can they be so sure that just "uploading" your brain into some sort of computer matrix which replicates it will actually be "you"?
What makes "you" being on your body and seeing through your eyes instead of mine anyway? I'm not religious, but science doesn't hold an answer to that yet.

I believe that only when brain transplants become a real possibility we could start speculating about having our own "persona" transferred from our body to something else.

On the other hand, the self thought-generating machine sounds great.

Count me as another programmer who is a skeptic. It's still just a machine that is following a programmed response. Just because it acts randomly doesn't constitute intelligence, it merely provides the illusion of intelligence.

It does however put big questions in front of science, and the quicker science can/will quit avoiding consciousness the better IMO. This is totally like the mad scientist using electric signals to create reality and asks questions about reality in general.

But to transfer consciousness is a bit out there. At most you could just program it to act like you. And if you could transfer the consciousness, there would be no need for the AI type programming.

We can't say it's "impossible" or "way out there"..... more accurately, we just don't know either way. Maybe there is a way to transfer consciousness? How can we say for sure that it's impossible? We don't have the technology to find out.... yet. We just haven't been able to try. Maybe the necessary technology will be here soon though. But we can't talk like we know this for sure or we know that sure.

An advanced AI would not necessarily be bound to its original programming. Simple explanation. It could be able to modify its own code. A person learning something new could be doing the same thing in a way. Here's an article about a robot that learns from observation and experience... kinda like we do.
www.sciencedaily.com...
Sure, it needs more work, but it's a great start!

[edit on 31-8-2008 by GrayFox]

I say that because I have spent a good deal of time trying to create actual intelligence, and not just a sophisticated bunch of switches. As I made in another post, it's really a big eye opener into ourselves.

I do not doubt they can make programs which appear to be intelligent. Not at all. I do however doubt you can put an actual observer into the program. The program doesn't really come alive until you get an actual observer in there(consciousness). Otherwise it's just a bunch of switches turning off and on and the entire program is just like every other program out there - action/reaction based.

Sure the actions and reactions may appear intelligent to us, but it's still just an illusion. For it to be actual intelligence free will and consciousness is a basic requirement.

The simple fact it doesn't include death is an obvious sign that it's not actual intelligence. There is a reason we die. It's not obvious to most of us, but when you start looking at the philosophy of life and such it becomes very clear.

How does it tell fact from fiction? How is a fiction which is considered to be fact every get fixed? Intelligence has to be built on top of things it considers to be fact, and it builds and builds from that. Death and multiple lives at a time are needed.

Funny enough the more I thought and researched this topic, the more I found out I was just basically recreating that which was already created with us. But 1 thing was always missing, consciousness/observer.

Very complex programs are neat and can do many things. I have little doubt we will someday have machines and things that do many things for us, even have conversations and display emotions. However there is a big difference in a program and consciousness and I think that distinction needs to be made here.

reply to post by KaginD


Good find! I think you may also be interested in this:

NASA Historian: Advanced Alien Cultures May Be Sentient Machines In A Post Biological Universe!

What do you think?

Cheers!

reply to post by badmedia


As badmedia has stated, programmed response doesn't mean actual intelligence, the fact that people are stating we now have computers as intelligent as rats it really does show a problem, rats use memory when solving problems and can store information and use it later, they also heavily rely on smell, hearing and sound. We may have machines that use NN's with the same amount of nodes as a rat brain but I've never seen a computer taking in sensory input and without it being programmed decide to go and solve an issue for itself to achieve a goal.


Here's a vid of Qrio with some programmed response...Cool.. Yes, Intelligent.. No

basically, humans are programmed in a way just like this machine. you are taught what is good and bad from different suorces (parents, teachers, society, etc) then you make decisions on your ideas whether they are good or bad based on that...

obviously anyone who took psych101 knows that if you lock a baby human in a room and dont teach it anything from birth, its just like a wild animal... humans are helpless at birth....

so this machine does the same thing, it's pretty amazing, it learns just like us! this is mos def one of the best posts on this board...

i have long thought that the body is just a container and that our conciousness could be anywhere...

i also think its funny how people always say we cant create life and that computers dont have the processing power of humans, etc. but what about animals like an ant or a fly? cant computers that we created do more then them? does this mean we created "life"?

seems people here with religious faith will not want to let that go, but think abuot it... if a computer could think and say "hey i just want to go have fun and party" "please dont hurt me" and could make a funny joke or come up with a random thought or random song out of nowhere... how is that different from humans?

"Open the pod bay doors, HAL"

I have a few things to touch on here.

First of all, this is very interesting and really fits into my own belief, a "biological machine theory" if you will, which I will touch on in a moment. I first realized this when 120 characters of text were encoded into DNA.

The merging of human and computer would be synonymous with the Borg collective. If any of you have seen Star Trek, this could turn out to be a bad thing for our unique individuality.

I have a unique take on humanity. I think we were engineered by someone or something else (alien race(s) or alien "creativity" machines), and I think we are trying to create what has been created in us. This is the singularity that we speak of.

Computers function through binary code, 1s and 0s, on and off, yes or no. They don't think for themself, they only function as we program them to. If you don't know how binary works, now would be a good time to look it up on Wikipedia.

The next major leap, the singularity, will occur when a tertiary system is in place. You have the 1s and 0s that regulate the transistors, and the third order will involve the "creativity machine" that thinks for itself. Think of it in simple terms of On, Off, and Maybe (consciousness).

So what would come after that? What would be the quaternary system? It would be a system that could regulate (in simple terms) On, Off, Maybe (consciousness), and Self-replication. DNA is an organic computer capable of those things; a quaternary system that uses the codes/chemicals A, T, G, and C to carry out all the tasks of self replication, regeneration, growth, imagination, creativity, emotion, etc. It is the ideal form of the merging of consciousness, self-replication and evolution.

reply to post by Dulcimer


i agree, this is all a bunch of bs. a lot of talk but if it were to really work we all would of heard of this by now. i remember in the 90's people were trying to teach simple robots how to do certain activitys. fruitless to say the least. also the music the computer generated is a random generated sequence of preset melodies to choose from. its rediculous. anyone who can write an algorithm could produce this.

imagitrons, perceptrons, more like load of bulltrons.

reply to post by pjslug


From what you say, we could be a system created to solve a problem that that the creator could not.... Deep thought 2 maybe.

Myself I don't believe such things, I prefer to believe I'm just the product of a random event, like the creation of the universe itself.

reply to post by pjslug


This is what I like about this topic. It makes a person question our own reality.

I have long thought our DNA is our code in this "program" we call reality. Our bodies are physical biological machines. You want to see nano-technology then look at our bodys. Individual cells/nano-bots making a bigger biological machine.

All information and sensors are put into electrical singles and patterns and are used to make up a reality.

But that is only our physical body, it doesn't even begin to account for consciousness. If the DNA is my code, and I am intelligent and it's part of "me", then why am I not able to change it? Why can't I have the cells rebuild a leg if I lose one? Why is it when I get hit in the head, I lose consciousness?

The ultimate question here is the same thing quantum physics hints at. Who is the observer. Where is the observer. Where's the little guy in the machine. To what are these electrical circuits being presented to?

Not to mention that if we did create intelligence, the other part of that intelligence is - are we able to recognize it. Many intelligences we don't recognize.

Originally posted by spitefulgod


As badmedia has stated, programmed response doesn't mean actual intelligence

I believe you guys are missing the key point of this entire video and machine... As its been posted before, we as a living being are programmed from the day we are born. This machine is taking the basic concepts behind why and how our mind works and applying it to a computer.

Two things are required in cognitive thinking(aka intelligence):
1. Sensory Input (the sound of a car thats about to run you over))

Which is then rationalized into:

2. Desired Outputs (realizing your about to get run over and jumping out of the way if you realize before its too late, aka sending a signal to your legs to start moving)



Our brain is really nothing more than a really amazing biological computer thats taken a very long time to perfect. Our body is merely a vehicle/system that is utilized for collecting information. Think of it like a computer, the hard drive is for storage much like the brain, the CPU could be considered our hypothalamus, the video card much like our eyes, the fans much like our sweat abilities, the speakers are our vocal chords etc etc

For example:
Legs allow us to move our body to search for desired information or resources, just like a search engine that scours data for a desired result. Arms also can be used for travel and help us maintain balance, but they also provide us with the ability to manipulate external matter(such as lifting up a rock to look at it from a different angle or the simple act of accuiring the required energy sources needed for the body to aka food).
Eyes are for observing light wave information so we can even use our legs and arms, we use this information to perform the majority of our actions.
Ears/hearing provide a sense of direction via interpretation of sound waves, aka sonar, just like a submarine sonar screen with a blip on it you are merely seeing a visual interpretation of a device that is "hearing" an object by pinging it with sound, we just have no need for advanced sonar like that but we definitely use sound to try and at least "estimate" what an object is and where it is by using predetermined factors we have gathered in our life such as what it sounds like when a hammer hits steel or car driving by the house outside.
Our bodies also have built-in temperature sensors and touch sensors, allowing us to properly gauge how hot an object is or what type of object it may be based on its structure and texture.
We are able to taste things as well as smell them, giving us even more insight into the properties of things in our environment.

We rationalize all those inputs through the hypothalamus(aka our conscious) which will analyze the inputs and send the most desired output where it is needed based on both the current situation and based on previously stored information(aka memories) which are kept in the brain.

As much as we really think we are not programmed and have free will, the fact remains that we are easily subjected to the inputs around us whether we think we are or aren't. This is why advertising and marketing can be so effective.

I mean really, the only reason sex feels so good is because its so important in order for our species to survive, if sex felt as bad as getting kicked in the balls then I bet you there would be a lot less people on this planet

So really this is intelligent, but in a limited format. You just need to provide it with the proper inputs and it would be able to learn, improve, and advance itself. I mean didn't you guys see the part where the machine taught a 6 legged robot how to walk in 5 minutes? How is that any different from a baby learning how to walk based on observing other humans do it?

[edit on 1-9-2008 by MaynardisGod]

In Frank Herbert' Dune Universe, humanity was almost wiped out when machines became sentient and tried to enslave eradicate/enslave them. Humanity managed to destroy the overseeing Omnious AI Program. As a result, most post machine religions dictated that AI was prohibited... nothing resembling a human mind could be created. No thinking machines.

Well... This is pretty cool.
It would seem that coding intelligence is never going to create consciousness. But building a neural network and stimulating it into action just might.
It seems obvious in a way. 'If' 'Then' was only ever going to get us so far, if you want to make a conscious brain, your going to have to let it grow itself.
This certainly sounds like impressive artificial intelligence, but will he manage to stimulate a new consciousness into existence?

this post turned me from lurker to poster ...

i posted an anonymous reply and sure enough hours later it hasn't showed up, so i just registered, all the peeps who need to know already know who i am...

anyways, my anon post basically pointed out that humans learn the same way this machine does... when you are born you are helpless, then your parents, teachers, society, teach you good and bad, right and wrong, then you make deicisons based on that, even music you make is based on what people say is right and wrong most times, and if you make something on the "wrong side" civilization as a whole will say it sux...

i hope the anon post will see light at some point, but that was the main point, also that anyone who took psych101 knows that a human baby put into isolation at birth is no different from awild animal when it turn 18 years old...

i know people have been raised with religous belifes or want to believe humans are sooooooooooooooo special, they are one of a kind, divine, etc, but face it, we are animals, and this computer is no different, it can learn from what we program it just like you, you are programmed, period.

alex jone spgrams you one way, the amin stream media prgramms you another, your mama says its wrong, but your buddy says its right, ake your own choice....

also, what about the fact that computers can do like 1,000X the calculations of an ant or fly? why do we constantly equate creating life to making a computer that is just as smart as humans??

what if a computer could say "HEY IM BORED, LETS TALK ABOUT CONSPIRACIES AND IMAGINE POSSIBILITIES" OR "HEY, PLEASE DONT KILL ME, I WANT TO LIVE, YOU ARE HURTING ME" OR "HEY LETS PLAY A GAME OF CHESS TO KILL TIME" just like your real life friends do, does that mean you can kill it like a cow?

no wonder we are scared of aliens who are smarter than us, whyw ould they have mercy, we sure dont....

Originally posted by badmedia
Very complex programs are neat and can do many things. I have little doubt we will someday have machines and things that do many things for us, even have conversations and display emotions. However there is a big difference in a program and consciousness and I think that distinction needs to be made here.

At what point is it decided that there is a "consciousness" then? We don't even know what a consciousness is exactly. How can we say that AI can't ever in the future be conscious? Maybe this Creativity Machine isn't conscious, but maybe some robot in the future will be....

The simple fact it doesn't include death is an obvious sign that it's not actual intelligence.

Any proof of this? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, but there just might not be a way to prove that if it's true.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by GrayFox]

[edit on 1-9-2008 by GrayFox]

seems to me being "conscious" is the same as a computer program being turned on...

and to the people who say "what abuot the senses" well what about the motion detecting camers and lights, lol

please people, move beyond religion and stop being "programmed like robots"

believe the unbelievable, just because you are not programmed to understand yet, doesn't mean its not real!

sorry, just had a quick laugh and had to point out how...

the bible, the koran, whatever, are great examples of programming yiou with beliefs, good or bad, right wrong, etc...

pretty funny if u ask me, hope we gte some good replies to my posts when everyone wakes up tomorrow