Russia could destroy NATO ships in 20 mins: Admiral

reply to post by manson_322


Mach 4.6 still isn`t hypersonic , and the reason the russians have changed to low level weapons is simple - something blasting along at 90,000 feet will be spotted on radar and a defence planeed against it lkely outside of the range of even SM2 - so well over 100 miles away;

a missile at 20 feet has the horizon as an advantage , which is why moskit (or sunburn) and its replacement - Yahkont (or the indian Brahmos) are so darn dangerous, they cut reaction time from minutes (100 miles takes 122 seconds to travel at mach 4) down to seconds (the calulated engement reaction time for sunburn is around 20>30 seconds from detection to impact and the estimate is also optimistic)

so whilst the KH-2MA (upgrade was avionics btw speed is the same) might well be a lethel ship killer as is its smaller brother the AS-6 `Kingfish` , defence has changed which is why teh russians adapted and moved towards cruise missiles

Originally posted by Nebules
Then we have to think what if china got into this because china and Russia are great allies then no matter what u tell me then the us would be destroyed except if they made a bomb that only target Russians and Chinese then id be scarred.

You didn't know they all ready do! I Was reading about a defense dept scientist that was working on being able to manufacture a biological weapon where people given certain markers would not be effected simply inoculate your troops spray area if true very scary stuff.

I read once that the Soviets and the Chinese did research on genetically engineering viruses that would only kill people of certain races. Rumor has it, they got "pretty close."

No sources for that, just something from an old memory.

reply to post by dragonridr


One of the by products of DNA research.

Of Course they can. So can the US.

Drop 3 atomic bombs in the water.

Neither country still keeps atomic bombs in their arsenal. They both have moved on to hydrogen bombs now.

Originally posted by jetxnet
Twisted, the US doesn't even have any firepower there yet. The NATO fleet is a joke, both Russia and the US know that.

If the US Navy were to come down on the Russian Navy, it would be all she wrote. The Russian Navy is no match for the US Navy, not even close.

You could make a case for the Soviet Union, but not now. While Russia has some renewed military life, it is still nothing like before.

They would be foolish to antagonize the US, it would spell the end of their Navy for another 20 years.

I have to agree with this.
Even if it were down to just numbers alone, the russian navy would be swiftly defeated.

I am beginning to think this "Nato ships in black sea" thing is simply bait and instigation.

And I think if they shut oil to europe, the biggest smash and grab in history would happen. I don't think the US at this point is opposed to blatantly breaking international law and seizing assets it deems critical for it's survival.

From what I have gathered over the years, conflict with russia has been planned from day one.

reply to post by mattifikation


Better get out your Bibles and dust them off and start reading like mad!
It's Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 about to be fulfilled in weeks to come...Gog and Magog wars as prophesied in Ezekiel---more than 2500 years ago....God is about to personally intervene in the affairs of men BIG TIME!
Gog and Magog..Rosh and Tubal..(Which as everyone who studies Bible prophesy knows) refers to Russia and Tobolsk....as well as Libya, Persia-(which is Iran)...Togormah---Turkey....and all the muslim nations come down to attack Israel---ISrael will not be destroyed but watch closely as to what will happen to Russia and its arab allies.....
It will be Sodom and Gomorrah repeat performance!
DAmascus will also be wiped out by Israel----never to be rebuilt...and Russia and arab allies will be personally destroyed by the God of Israel Himself...ANd this He will do because Israel is the apple of God's eye...
God will also bring nations against Israel down into the VAlley of decision to judge them there for DIVIDING UP HIS LAND!.
Condi Rice and Bush are heading for trouble to USA for pushing Israel to divide up Jerusalem...
Zechariah 12 talks about what happens when all nations come against Jerusalem to battle...LEt's just say after the dust settles Israel will be left standing just fine...
Jerusalem becomes the burdensome stone and anyone who meddles with it---nations who attack it....will be destroyed....for touching God's land...
Israel is not to be bargained with or given away to Israel's enemies...this will bring God's anger down on people who go against His LAND and His people...
AMEN!
Also read Joel chapter 3 to see what God does to them who part His land!
Bible prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes, and those who are spiritually discerning knows what ALL this means...
Antchrist is set to walk upon world stage to fix the arab -Israeli problem,,by getting Israel to sign a 7 yr. peace accord with many nations and palestinians...a false 7 yr/ peace deal is signed which kicks off on the very SAME day--the 7 year Tribulation.....
Jesus returns 7 yrs later at end of tribulation---or also called Jacob's trouble....which culminates at the battle of Armageddon in Israel---when Jesus will return with armies of Heaven and destroy antichrist with the brightness of HIS COMING!
EVen so come Lord Jesus--but first we who are His ---are awaiting His return at this Rosh Hashana coming---Sept.29 to 30th in hopes He comes this year to take us out of the coming holocaust and save us from His wrath which will be poured out on those who have rejected His grace..
don't take the mark of the beast---666 --in your right hand or forehead...even if it means you can't buy or sell anything...don't take the mark...for if you do--it's damnation forever ----you've sold your soul to devil if you take the mark of the beast--for it is the number of a man ----mr. 666---who will make Hitler look like a choir boy.
Beheadings will be for those who refuse to take this mark...but they will gain Heaven....for making decision to refuse this mark 666.
Accept Jesus today because you can see that what I say is coming to fulfillment...ask Jesus into your heart and ask Him to forgive all your sins...He will save you ....CHoose you this day whom you will serve...choose life ..not death!!!
And then we'll see you in the rapture--which may happen on Rosh HAshana this year at end of September ----hopefully!
In 2015--there are 4 eclipses //all on Jewish feast days...God gave sun and moon for signs-----He gave them for seasons as well...He gave them as SIGNALS ----to watch --and wait --for His return...
Rosh HAshana is a divine appointment ---

reply to post by airteck

Text Black The former Soviets, now Russian Federation, emphasized firepower on their ships...their offensive arsenal is formidable. Their challenge: hitting the target once the missile is away...so they shoot lots of missiles in a sort of spread formation...that tactic presents a difficult defensive problem for the intended target(s).

Soviet, now Russian Federation, ships have essentially adequate ship-launched anti-ship missile defenses but poor aircraft-launched anti-ship missile defenses.

Our side also carries a potent offensive missile and gun tube offensive capability and a robust multi-layered anti-missile, anti-aircraft defensive capability. If the Russians were to get off the first shots and somehow shield those launches from our sensors they could do incredible damage to our fleet. The Russians might well get the first shots off, but they can't hide the firing signature...our side will see the launches, sensors will identify what weapons were fired, probable targets and launch counter-measures.

From that point, depending upon a whole bunch of conditions and the macro political environment, our ships' commanders have a wide range of motion available to them...first and foremost will be containing any damage inflicted by whatever Russian weapons get through the defense shield -- as some surely will; then will come attending to the dead & wounded while at the same time sustaining the defensive shield around surviving ships. Our captains may, depending upon their orders, withdraw or launch counter attacks or both or some other combination of events.

Regardless, the Russians will know they were in a fight. They are no more eager to get into a shooting contest with us than we are with them.

While the Russian admiral was correct in the most abstract of senses, he knows that his side would not get away without serious damage and loss of life -- both from the intended target ships and within minutes from aircraft-launched missiles fired from far stand-off range...The admiral's statement was bluster designed to intimidate weak-spined European politicians and tentative EU nation military general staff officers. His words likely had little impact on the US administration and its military leadership group.

And nobody has mentioned the Russian and Chinese Sunburn Missiles that achieve Mach 4 speeds. The kinetic energy alone can obliterate a Carrier on impact ! That is what I would be concerned about.

The Russian Navy has been amking claims like this for 50 years now. In actual fact, their Navy is way behind the times, second rate at best. Their better ships are rust buckets, that they have been unable to maintain.

Just more of their "bully boy" tactics, trying to scare the Europeans, who will crap in their pants at the slightest threat. They would much rather allow all of Europe be raped by the Russians that even attempt to defend themselves.

Their credo is, "Much better to be a live coward".

Dont know enough about this to comment, however MAD still applies they nuke us and we take them to Hell with us. Hopefully one day we might all grow up and learn to share and play nice, i think the key thing to take from this they wont be bullied like certain Arab countries.

reply to post by mattifikation


With all due respect, what in the hell is a NATO surface force battle group even doing in the Black Sea? There aren't any Russian naval lurking off our coast in the Gulf of Mexico. The conflict in Georgia was started by George Soros's traitor lackey Georgian Pres. Saakasvili, NOT by the Russians. We are backing the wrong side in this conflict.

As for the provocation of NATO units in the Black Sea, our naval units must go where they are ordered to go. But the military liaison between US and Russia is holding, at least for now. They are striving to tamp down the situation to keep things from getting out of control. Hopefully they'll manage to avoid the kinds of miscalculations that lead to "the guns of August" & WWI.

The weapons alluded to, that are capable of destroying the US and Nato Navies in 20 minutes, have been tested in two exercises, including one by the Chinese Navy, to whom the Russians sold this cutting-edge arsenal- another customer being Iran.

The fact that these two powers are recipients is in no small measure due to the fact of the misnomered Missile Defence Shield- a bizarre concept that has been described as 'trying to use a winchester to shoot a dime'(- OK if you're James Coburn I suppose)- is to be placed around Russia's borders. There is a strong likelihood that in a scenario where Iran attempts a strike on Europe, this shield would fail, but nevertheless destroy some city or part of Russia.

There is a new arms race kicking up a new and terrible pace, and intemperate and arrogant posturing on all sides: only by the civilian peoples of the world restraining our politicians can we avert disaster.

This is pretty funny. Russian technology is still decades behind the U.S.. Chances are that the newest Russian missiles aren't much better than they were twenty years ago, which translates to sixties technology for the U.S.. Russia has a long history of overstating their military technology. Every time Russian military hardware has gone up against U.S. military hardware, the Russian military hardware has gotten trounced.

It's called bluffing.

Originally posted by poet1b
This is pretty funny. Russian technology is still decades behind the U.S.. Chances are that the newest Russian missiles aren't much better than they were twenty years ago, which translates to sixties technology for the U.S.. Russia has a long history of overstating their military technology. Every time Russian military hardware has gone up against U.S. military hardware, the Russian military hardware has gotten trounced.

It's called bluffing.

and the wheres the proof for this BS???

forgotten how russian equipment destroyed US/Western equipment in indo-pak 1971 war , vietnam war, 2006 lebonan war , forgot how the western trained georgian forces were defeated in a week ....


by the Russian missile tech is considered superior to its US counterparts , though the Russian plane tech is behind US plane tech



[edit on 2-9-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by twisted_fate
fire enough missiles at those ships....most will get through, so yes, they could destroy nato ships that quickly.

people seem to really underestimate Russia, you'll regret that.

Phalanx... meh.

You might be surprised at what SeaRAM, ESSM, jamming, decoys, etc. are capable of. They are not toys. Maybe you should read up on what our (abovetopsecret) counter parts in Russia say about the realities of their systmes v. ours. It is not what the Admiral makes it out to be.

A fatal flaw in all of these arguments lies in numbers. The Russians act as if they have unlimited top of the line missiles... they do not. they act as if they are all deployed and on stand by... if this is true we know where they are. If not these sorts of mass salvos are not possible. Their launch systems take too long to reload in comparison to USN defensive systems.

They also leave out that they will not be only on the offensive, but they better have their own anti-missile systems because we are not just going to lob stones at their ships.

They take out a ship and we will use our top of the line penetrating bombers, stealth cruise missiles, F-22s and show them the weakness of the S-300 systems. We will have air superiority in a matter of days and they will have to go nuclear or cry in their cheerios.

Read up. They talk a good game.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by Pootie]

The United States Navy currently operates eleven aircraft carriers. The oldest and least capable is faster, one third larger, and carries three times the aircraft of Admiral Kuznetsov, the largest carrier in the Russian Navy. Unlike China’s only aircraft carrier, the former Russian Varyag, American carriers have engines and are capable of self-propulsion. The only carrier in Indian service is fifty years old and a quarter the size of its American counterparts. No navy besides the United States' has more than one aircraft carrier capable of flying modern fixed wing aircraft. The United States enjoys similar dominance in surface combat vessels and submarines, operating twenty-two cruisers, fifty destroyers, fifty-five nuclear attack submarines, and ten amphibious assault ships (vessels roughly equivalent to most foreign aircraft carriers). In every category the U.S. Navy combines presumptive numerical superiority with a significant ship-to-ship advantage over any foreign navy.

This is why a naval battle will never occur between US and Russia.

idle sword rattling, what else are they going to say?

that fleet cannot even keep their phones operational:

Black sea fleet phones cut off over unpaid bill

A Ukrainian telephone company has shut down the lines of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol because the navy hasn't paid the bills.

news.bbc.co.uk...

those leaky rustbuckets would drop like bricks if nato threw rocks at them, i'm certain...

the bear is old and weak, but still remembers it's glory days, eh?